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  • Playing Politics

    Arizona is under attack from the federal government for doing something the federal government has refused to do for many years. Along with hard working people who have broken our immigration laws by entering our country illegally, we are host to violent members of mexican drug cartels and scum of the earth human traffickers.

    I listened to the attorney general of arizona speak on Fox News last night. He was very upset with inaction by the fed, and the growing problem of violent illegals in his state. He has communicated his concerns to The President, but The President has made it clear that he will not take action.

    The President is holding out for immigration reform before he will do anything with our border security. Legal American citizens will continue to be the victims of violent crimes by those who enter our country illegally, as our President does nothing as did his predecessors.

    We the people continue to be pawns in the political process played by our two all powerful parties. The laws of our country and the will of the people means little to politicians and those who make their own rules and cross the border.

    Break the laws of other countries and you end up in jail and deported, as in mexico. Break our immigration laws and we become the criminals.

    I forgot to mention, the attorney general of arizona is a democrat. The problem remains, violent criminals here illegally and our President plays politics instead of upholding the laws of the land. Not the change I voted for, and not the behavior I will accept come the next election!

  • #2
    Re: Playing Politics

    Sounds like you voted for him. Glad you see him for what he is and intend to do something about it come November.

    I can only hope that others who voted that way see things for what they really are instead of this false utopia that seems to have fallen on so many.
    Frequently asked questions about pumps and tanks.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Playing Politics

      I agree that Arizona is playing politics with the issue.

      When the governor of Arizona tells the president "Do you job!", that's politics.

      When the governor of Arizona says all illegals are drug mules, that's politics.

      When Obama suggests immigration reform, he's accused of granting amnesty even though any measures he has thus far suggested fall far short of the measures Reagan got.

      How many illegals have entered Arizona in the eighteen months and how many have left?

      I do know that the illegal population over the past two years has been in decline. I do know we have more resources at the border than ever before. I do know that the number of illegals trying to enter in the past two years has declined dramatically. I do know that the Chamber of Commerce is against the E Verify program.

      I do know this is Arizona playing politics. Illegal immigration is one of their frames. And Brewer reinforces the frame with her messaging. And apparently a democratic AG too.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Playing Politics

        I agree that Arizona is playing politics with the issue.
        Who are you agreeing with?
        Frequently asked questions about pumps and tanks.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Playing Politics

          Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
          I agree that Arizona is playing politics with the issue.

          When the governor of Arizona tells the president "Do you job!", that's politics.

          When the governor of Arizona says all illegals are drug mules, that's politics.

          When Obama suggests immigration reform, he's accused of granting amnesty even though any measures he has thus far suggested fall far short of the measures Reagan got.

          How many illegals have entered Arizona in the eighteen months and how many have left?

          I do know that the illegal population over the past two years has been in decline. I do know we have more resources at the border than ever before. I do know that the number of illegals trying to enter in the past two years has declined dramatically. I do know that the Chamber of Commerce is against the E Verify program.

          I do know this is Arizona playing politics. Illegal immigration is one of their frames. And Brewer reinforces the frame with her messaging. And apparently a democratic AG too.
          Spiff, when the govenor of az tells the President to "do your job", it's because he is not doing his job!

          All illegals have broken our immigration laws, and according to bill o'reilly of Fox News 1100 of them are sitting in prison for violent crimes. Should the law abiding citizens of az be happy with that number, even if it's true that other statistics involving illegals is on the decline? Get real Spiff, we have a serious problem with illegals burdening our economy and a much more serious crime with violent illegals tied to drug cartels.

          I think it would be great if President Obama could pass immigration reform and resolve the millions of illegals living here in limbo and not paying taxes like you and I. The President first has a duty, obligation to uphold the laws of the land and secure our borders. Granted, no President in recent history has addressed border security and the issue of illegals.

          IF I am stopped by the poice while driving, I must show my driver's license and proof of insurance and registration. What gives you or anyone else the authority to give illegals a free pass to not do the same? We do not have two sets of laws in the USA, one for law abiding citizens and one for illegals who you think are doing a bang up job.

          The govenor and attorney general of az may not be of the same political party, but they do understand the serious problem with illegals, especially violent illegals breaking our laws. They understand the frustration of the federal government and our own President, refusing to reolve the problem until he gets what he wants ploitically.

          You either respect our laws and value the the rights of Americans to the pursuit of happiness above that of violent, illegals, or you do not. Which is it?
          I'm all for fining and incarcerating Americans who employ illegals, but that does not excuse illegals for breaking our laws. That does not entitle them to privacy rights beyond that of people who live, work and drive here legally.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Playing Politics

            Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
            ... according to bill o'reilly of Fox News
            You lost me at that point. Here's thirty six pages of carefully researched, documented evidence of the lies and distortion that are O'Reilly's stock in trade. The documentation includes transcripts and video so that none of his remarks are used out of context.


            If O'Reilly says it is so, then you have very good reason to believe it isn't so.

            The scale and magnitude of O'Reilly's lies are stunning. Of course if one is predisposed to his bias and prejudice then he makes perfect sense. But the reality of the matters are that O'Reilly is plainly lying through is ever loving teeth.

            Now if someone wants to say MSNBC or any of it's hosts are lying, as O'Reilly does, all you have to do is provide some evidence. A transcript or video will suffice.

            Bias is one thing and a discussion about it is worthy of time. Outright lying is quiet another thing and it should not be tolerated. At least it did not use to be tolerated.
            Last edited by SpiffPeters; 07-09-2010, 12:35 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Playing Politics

              Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
              You lost me at that point. Here's thirty six pages of carefully researched, documented evidence of the lies and distortion that are O'Reilly's stock in trade. The documentation includes transcripts and video so that none of his remarks are used out of context.


              If O'Reilly says it is so, then you have very good reason to believe it isn't so.

              The scale and magnitude of O'Reilly's lies are stunning. Of course if one is predisposed to his bias and prejudice then he makes perfect sense. But the reality of the matters are that O'Reilly is plainly lying through is ever loving teeth.

              Now if someone wants to say MSNBC or any of it's hosts are lying, as O'Reilly does, all you have to do is provide some evidence. A transcript or video will suffice.

              Bias is one thing and a discussion about it is worthy of time. Outright lying is quiet another thing and it should not be tolerated. At least it did not use to be tolerated.
              IF I am stopped by the poice while driving, I must show my driver's license and proof of insurance and registration. What gives you or anyone else the authority to give illegals a free pass to not do the same? We do not have two sets of laws in the USA, one for law abiding citizens and one for illegals who you think are doing a bang up job.

              The govenor and attorney general of az may not be of the same political party, but they do understand the serious problem with illegals, especially violent illegals breaking our laws. They understand the frustration of the federal government and our own President, refusing to reolve the problem until he gets what he wants ploitically.

              You either respect our laws and value the the rights of Americans to the pursuit of happiness above that of violent, illegals, or you do not. Which is it?
              I'm all for fining and incarcerating Americans who employ illegals, but that does not excuse illegals for breaking our laws. That does not entitle them to privacy rights beyond that of people who live, work and drive here legally.

              Spiff, I disagree with you about o'reilly. Do you actually watch his show? If you don't believe what he says that's all the more reason to watch!
              His guest was a hispanic author who insisted that he could be pulled over by the police in az and harassed to produce identification. O'reilly said that is simply not the case. Spiff, do you think it is right for you and I to be required to produce a valid driver's license if stopped, but the same should not apply to someone who might be here illegally?

              Does your upset with the system that protects employers of illegals blind you to the fact that they are breaking our laws, burdening our economy and in some cases comitting violent crimes?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Playing Politics

                Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                I Spiff, I disagree with you about o'reilly. Do you actually watch his show? If you don't believe what he says that's all the more reason to watch!
                Yes, I have watched his show on occasion. Not regularly, but the every time I tune it in it only takes a minute or two until he says something that is simply inaccurate.

                His arguments are based on verified lies. What's to listen to? How many times would you allow your neighbor to lie to you before you would cease to believe anything he says?

                His guest was a hispanic author who insisted that he could be pulled over by the police in az and harassed to produce identification. O'reilly said that is simply not the case. Spiff, do you think it is right for you and I to be required to produce a valid driver's license if stopped, but the same should not apply to someone who might be here illegally?
                Getting a drivers license is not difficult, and certainly not irrefutable proof of legal residency. If you are driving, which is a privilege, then you must have proper documentation. That's part of the deal.

                Does your upset with the system that protects employers of illegals blind you to the fact that they are breaking our laws, burdening our economy and in some cases comitting violent crimes?
                What studies can you produce that show the illegals create a net loss in our economy? I know it may seem counter intuitive to think they actually contribute, but are we forgetting these people are generating goods and services, pay taxes (sales, property, utility, gas) and are consumers?

                Sorry, but the folks at Fox News are consistently caught in outright, bald face lies, daily as a matter of fact. This outlet can not be trusted to tell me what day of the week it is.

                You may enjoy their programming. You may agree with their opinions. But the clear, simple, true fact of the matter is that they are a hard core partisan distribution network that can not pass up the opportunity to lie.

                I can put the video and transcripts up all day long and FOX News viewers can look at the evidence and deny the lies. I can not explain how anyone that watches their programming can dismiss, excuse or not care one bit that this network lies about anything and everything that gives their political party an advantage.

                It's sad.

                Again, if MSNBC is caught telling a lie, lets see and hear about it. You may not like their programming or opinions, but they don't lie.
                Last edited by SpiffPeters; 07-09-2010, 03:39 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Playing Politics

                  Spiff, you can site whatever studies you wish but common sense tell me that people who are earning income and not paying tax on it cost all of us. You seem to make an argument of the benefits of illegal labor to justify their breaking our laws, I find this insulting. You also refuse to discuss the impact of violent illegals on our society.

                  Our citizens are no less deserving of strong borders and respect to our laws than the citizens of any other country including mexico. In my opinion "mediamatters.org" seems to be a liberal attack machine which also distorts the truth. There is only one truth, and that fact seems to escape liberals, conservatives, republicans and democrats as they jockey for power.

                  I don't need bill o'reilly to tell me illegal immigration is costing our economy money and costing our safety as well. Shaun hannity has never defined my understanding of what it means to be a good patriot. I wish you would take a step back from all the misinformation and think for yourself. We are a nation of laws and they have been broken. Our elected officials serve their party's agenda, not the will of the people. Our President is not upholding the laws of the land and he refuses to deport illegals, secure the border and help the people of az. He is playing politics to get what he wants which is immigration reform. I don't need anyone to explain what is happening in washington or our country. I do need the truth, all the truth, and legislators willing to do their elected jobs.

                  Spiff, Fox News can say what they want about President Obama, but it is his actions that I judge. He pushed for a healthcare plan I did not agree with, he is not doing what I consider to be the right thing along our borders and with the situation in az, our economy is bleak and we are losing brave Americans in iraq and afghanistan.

                  Spiff, you won't find the truth at either extreme. Look for yourself, it is somewhere in the middle.
                  Last edited by Frankiarmz; 07-09-2010, 04:32 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Playing Politics

                    Franki - Show me a study that says illegals create a negative impact on the economy. I can give you a couple that states they create a positive impact on the economy. How much income tax would a minimum wage worker pay? 1/2 of the 40% of people that did not pay any income tax in 2008 made less than $19k. But what I say on Fox News was that 40% of Americans don't pay income tax. That is a huge distortion to say the least.

                    The violent illegals you are talking about have nothing to do with the illegals that come here seeking a job of better life. The violent illegals are associated with the drug cartels. Stop the drug trafficking, you stop the violent criminals.

                    Like I said, give me some source information that informs your opinion.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Playing Politics

                      Spiff, I don't give a crap if illegal aliens are producing a windfall of profits for America ( they are not ) the fact is that their actions are illegal. Impact, profit or not makes no damn difference. They are here illegally. They are breaking our laws. Laws by the way which Mexico not only has but enforces.
                      So maybe they do pay their utility bills and sales tax but they damn sure don't pay state or federal income taxes. Why do they get a break there that the rest of us don't. So maybe according to you, there are less of them crossing the boarder today than last month. Any crossing the boarder is too damn many. A nation that does not defend it borders, language and culture will not be a nation for very long. Show me one single other country that allows illegal aliens to cross their boarders at will?
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Playing Politics

                        If illegal aliens make such a positive impact, why is Arizona trying to get rid of them? And why are there a couple of states considering passing similar legislation as Arizona?
                        When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Playing Politics

                          The studies you are reading are about legal immigrants. You cant really quantify the impact of people who are working off the grid.
                          Believe it or not they were afraid of law enforcement long before SB 1070.

                          We have hospitals that close down or rely on tax payers to keep them afloat because so many illegal immigrants use the emergency rooms with out a means to pay.
                          People cannot find decent paying jobs because business owners can pay cash under minimum wage to illegal immigrants who can't complain because they are afraid of deportation.
                          Tucson is has one of the highest hit and run motor Vehicle accident rates because illegal immigrants won't wait for police to take a report.

                          They forge documents and steal identities. This requires the real person to pay to fix the situation.
                          Illegal Immigrants don't bring money they come with very little and are at the mercy of the criminals that bring them here.
                          They spend as little as possible to send what they can home.
                          The positive economic impact is in Mexico, Guatamala, El Salvador, ETC...

                          The Federal Government spent millions trying to convince illegal immigrants to fill out and return the census. Why? The same reason the DOJ is working so hard to overturn our law. They want to turn them into Democrat voters no other reason.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Playing Politics

                            Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                            Franki - Show me a study that says illegals create a negative impact on the economy. I can give you a couple that states they create a positive impact on the economy. How much income tax would a minimum wage worker pay? 1/2 of the 40% of people that did not pay any income tax in 2008 made less than $19k. But what I say on Fox News was that 40% of Americans don't pay income tax. That is a huge distortion to say the least.

                            The violent illegals you are talking about have nothing to do with the illegals that come here seeking a job of better life. The violent illegals are associated with the drug cartels. Stop the drug trafficking, you stop the violent criminals.

                            Like I said, give me some source information that informs your opinion.
                            Since the Feds don't track the true costs what costs would you like him to use? Better yet, why don't you prove they are not a burden?

                            Mark
                            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Playing Politics

                              Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                              Franki - Show me a study that says illegals create a negative impact on the economy. I can give you a couple that states they create a positive impact on the economy. How much income tax would a minimum wage worker pay? 1/2 of the 40% of people that did not pay any income tax in 2008 made less than $19k. But what I say on Fox News was that 40% of Americans don't pay income tax. That is a huge distortion to say the least.

                              The violent illegals you are talking about have nothing to do with the illegals that come here seeking a job of better life. The violent illegals are associated with the drug cartels. Stop the drug trafficking, you stop the violent criminals.

                              Like I said, give me some source information that informs your opinion.
                              Those are some great ideals you have there Spiff, if a person is here illegally and has violated our immigration laws they are okay so long as they are not violent criminals? According to you we must first stop drug trafficking before we can stop violent illegals connected to the cartels? Spiff, we disagree.

                              Respect our laws regarding immigration first, enforce our laws and secure our borders first, as with mexico.

                              The problem with undocumented workers, folks earning imcome in our country who are here illegally, is that no one knows who is earning what. We the taxpayers deserve to know who is here, what they are earning and have them pay their fair share like the rest of us! Your theory that they are hard working people who pay other taxes, does not exempt them from paying All the taxes we do.

                              In my opinion on the one hand you give illegals a pass on being here in violation of our immigration laws and no paying taxes which seems real generous, and on the other hand you doom them to all sorts of abuses which take place in the real world with people who live in a shadow society.

                              Maybe you think we need to stop the demand for drugs in order to stop the violent illegals working for the cartels, I along with others think that stipulation is not necessary. Illegal immigration is fertile ground for all sorts of crimes against humanity, rape and murder among them. If you really care about people, stop trying to justify yur opinions with studies and face the hard cruel facts. Secure the borders and stop the flow of all illegals comming into the USA. Find out who is here and work out a fair and humane way to deal with them.

                              Once we have secured our borders and resolved the situation with illegals in our country, I think we should invade mexico and crush the drug cartels that have killed tens of thousands of people and force many to live in fear including law enforcement in that country. I'll let you have the last word, I'm tired.

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