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  • #31
    Re: I wonder

    Originally posted by boytyperanma View Post
    I personally think term limits are a stupid concept. They're like saying 'we're too stupid, please make a law to save us from ourselves' You know if you think the person in office is a bad guy you don't have to vote for him. The only thing keeping them in office is people voting them in. I'm personally for people being able to vote for who they want, like in a democracy. I do have some personal conflict with my principles however as because of them we end up with the government we deserve. A few bother to educate themselves while the others are herded like sheep to the polls. Until America as a people are willing to step up and perform their duty as voters and educate and decide for themselves we'll keep going the same route. That or Atlas will finally shrug, the system will crash and we'll have to start anew.


    You may be tired of 2 party rule, but more parties in the US is really a pipe dream. We have Democracy 1.0 newer versions have come out that allow more distribution of power between parties. Our system isn't necessarily inferior, it's stable and can outperform others in terms of getting things done. But we have a system in which a single person can dramatically tip the scales towards their party regardless of the opposition. A party must be powerful enough and inclusive enough to attract a wide variety of people. The two parties we have simply move the goal posts, in terms of policy, as needed to attract enough followers. A party must be strong enough to take the presidency to be viable. It's what limits us to 2 parties.
    We are too stupid! I speak for the masses. Once in office and power, many politicians have an advantage over their opponents. Unfortunately with term limits, a good and effective legislator would be ousted as well.

    My only argument for a third party is the results a two party system has produced. Like any equation taken to the final conclusion, we see the failings of a two party exclusive system. They simply take turns taking power and further ruining our country. They have no real oppostion, not even from eachother. Tic, Tac Toe, when you play a game of X's and O's you can't have any other winners. In my opinion there really does need to be a violent revolution to bring our country back. Do any of you seriously expect positive results from either of these self serving political parties?

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    • #32
      Re: I wonder

      Originally posted by boytyperanma View Post
      Yes as a party they are much further to the right of their past policies.



      Hardly a compelling case you got there. You know his brother Ted Kennedy was also a staunch Catholic thus morally opposed to stem cell and abortion. Also John Kerry manages to pull off the Democrat+Catholic thing pretty well too. I'm actually running the current senators through my head and am willing to bet their are more Catholic Democrats then there are Catholic Republicans in congress. So your argument Kennedy was Catholic ergo he would be Republican is pretty weak. Want to try again?
      I think you meant to say the Democratic party today is further to the LEFT. No way in hell are they further to the right today.

      But no need to try again...I'm entitled to my opinions.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: I wonder

        Originally posted by boytyperanma View Post
        I personally think term limits are a stupid concept. They're like saying 'we're too stupid, please make a law to save us from ourselves' You know if you think the person in office is a bad guy you don't have to vote for him. The only thing keeping them in office is people voting them in. I'm personally for people being able to vote for who they want, like in a democracy. I do have some personal conflict with my principles however as because of them we end up with the government we deserve. A few bother to educate themselves while the others are herded like sheep to the polls. Until America as a people are willing to step up and perform their duty as voters and educate and decide for themselves we'll keep going the same route. That or Atlas will finally shrug, the system will crash and we'll have to start anew.


        You may be tired of 2 party rule, but more parties in the US is really a pipe dream. We have Democracy 1.0 newer versions have come out that allow more distribution of power between parties. Our system isn't necessarily inferior, it's stable and can outperform others in terms of getting things done. But we have a system in which a single person can dramatically tip the scales towards their party regardless of the opposition. A party must be powerful enough and inclusive enough to attract a wide variety of people. The two parties we have simply move the goal posts, in terms of policy, as needed to attract enough followers. A party must be strong enough to take the presidency to be viable. It's what limits us to 2 parties.
        We are too stupid!! Plus term limits would "help" curb special interests and lobbyists. Plus right after Obama got elected (I forget the congressman's name) he wanted the law to be re-written so Presidents don't have term limits anymore, so Obama could be there for a long time. I'm too tired to google the entire story.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: I wonder

          Originally posted by Flux View Post
          I think you meant to say the Democratic party today is further to the LEFT. No way in hell are they further to the right today.

          But no need to try again...I'm entitled to my opinions.
          No I very firmly stand by further to the right. Both parties have moved right of their previous policies. I'd welcome debate with you on that subject but it seems your opinion would outweigh the facts anyhow.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: I wonder

            Originally posted by boytyperanma View Post
            No I very firmly stand by further to the right. Both parties have moved right of their previous policies. I'd welcome debate with you on that subject but it seems your opinion would outweigh the facts anyhow.
            I must not be understanding you correctly cause...the Democratic party right now in present time is to the FAR left. 2 years ago this country just elected the most far left senator to be our President. That's not me just saying that..the pundits say that. If they were far right they would be considered moderate without crossing the line into conservative territory. What am I missing?

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            • #36
              Re: I wonder

              Originally posted by Flux View Post
              We are too stupid!! Plus term limits would "help" curb special interests and lobbyists. Plus right after Obama got elected (I forget the congressman's name) he wanted the law to be re-written so Presidents don't have term limits anymore, so Obama could be there for a long time. I'm too tired to google the entire story.
              That was Jose Serrano. He proposed to repeal the 22nd amendment.

              I refuse to accept policy for the sole purpose of allowing people to stay ignorant.

              If you want to curb special interest we could start with stripping corporations of 'person-hood' status. If a corporation is actually representative of their stock holders, the people who own those shares are perfectly capable of using their vote to represent the needs of their company. There is no need to allow a corporation to be given any voice in the government of the people.
              Last edited by boytyperanma; 09-04-2010, 01:08 AM.

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              • #37
                Re: I wonder

                Originally posted by Flux View Post
                I must not be understanding you correctly cause...the Democratic party right now in present time is to the FAR left. 2 years ago this country just elected the most far left senator to be our President. That's not me just saying that..the pundits say that. If they were far right they would be considered moderate without crossing the line into conservative territory. What am I missing?
                There is your problem.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: I wonder

                  Originally posted by boytyperanma View Post
                  There is your problem.
                  I just disagree.

                  What's being said in the media-blogs-talk shows and talking to old timers seems to make the most sense for me to understand. That's how I formed my opinion on the the left/right debate.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: I wonder

                    Originally posted by Flux View Post
                    I just disagree.
                    Left would imply advocating or implementing social change towards a more egalitarian society.

                    Ok let's go with your premise that Obama was the left most member of the Senate(not true but I'll accept your opinion for the purposes of this argument)

                    He's been president for a little bit now and had time to voice his opinion and put his weight behind a few things. Major accomplishments

                    Stimulus package-massive spending in hopes to stabilize the current economy

                    Health care bill-attempt to modify and reorganize the current health care system

                    Appointed Sotamayor-center left justice

                    Appointed Kagan-so far who would be described as center right but there is speculation she'll move leftward.

                    Of course he replaced the two most liberal justices so in the opinion of almost and legal scholar the court has moved right under the Obama presidency.

                    Credit card reform-modified the existing credit card rules and regulations
                    Fair Pay Act-expanded workers rights to sue for wage discrimination.

                    Lets compare him to a Democrat of year's past. Lyndon Johnston who wasn't even the most liberal Democrat of his day. He did a few things that might be considered leftist.

                    Civil Rights Act - ended segregation

                    Voting Rights Act - banned discrimination at the polls

                    Great Society - widespread welfare and urban renewal projects

                    Medicare and Medicaid-added completely new government health-care systems

                    Federal funding for education- Added a completely new system allowing for federal investment in public schools

                    Appointed Thurgood Marshall- left justice

                    Of the two presidencies which would you say had a more fundamental change on our society in terms of social movement?

                    If Obama was the left most member of the Senate and LBJ was a moderate among democrats I'd find it difficult(if not blatantly jumping hurdles of logic) to conclude the current Democratic party is to the left of the Democratic part of the past.

                    I've seen a few decent arguments Obama runs to the right or Reagan. Not an argument I buy into but it can be made with honest object facts.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: I wonder

                      I too think that term limits are stupid and for the same reasons above. however, I would like to see some better way of controlling campoaign contributions so that 1, political office is not left to the very rich and 2, I think it is a terrible waste of millions of dollars just to win an office.

                      I was a young man when the Vietnam war was raging. I was one of the protesters. Times and attitudes were very different then. There was a much larger generational divide. Though I would like to blame Democrats on that whole thing the truth is that that war came at a time when the fear of spreading communism and the cold war were at a peak. History will show that there were many reasons why we got involved there, some having to do with preservation of democracy and naturally, some having to do with self interest. Just like all wars
                      sigpic

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                      • #41
                        Re: I wonder

                        Originally posted by boytyperanma View Post
                        Left would imply advocating or implementing social change towards a more egalitarian society.

                        Ok let's go with your premise that Obama was the left most member of the Senate(not true but I'll accept your opinion for the purposes of this argument)

                        He's been president for a little bit now and had time to voice his opinion and put his weight behind a few things. Major accomplishments

                        Stimulus package-massive spending in hopes to stabilize the current economy

                        Health care bill-attempt to modify and reorganize the current health care system

                        Appointed Sotamayor-center left justice

                        Appointed Kagan-so far who would be described as center right but there is speculation she'll move leftward.

                        Of course he replaced the two most liberal justices so in the opinion of almost and legal scholar the court has moved right under the Obama presidency.

                        Credit card reform-modified the existing credit card rules and regulations
                        Fair Pay Act-expanded workers rights to sue for wage discrimination.

                        Lets compare him to a Democrat of year's past. Lyndon Johnston who wasn't even the most liberal Democrat of his day. He did a few things that might be considered leftist.

                        Civil Rights Act - ended segregation

                        Voting Rights Act - banned discrimination at the polls

                        Great Society - widespread welfare and urban renewal projects

                        Medicare and Medicaid-added completely new government health-care systems

                        Federal funding for education- Added a completely new system allowing for federal investment in public schools

                        Appointed Thurgood Marshall- left justice

                        Of the two presidencies which would you say had a more fundamental change on our society in terms of social movement?

                        If Obama was the left most member of the Senate and LBJ was a moderate among democrats I'd find it difficult(if not blatantly jumping hurdles of logic) to conclude the current Democratic party is to the left of the Democratic part of the past.

                        I've seen a few decent arguments Obama runs to the right or Reagan. Not an argument I buy into but it can be made with honest object facts.
                        I just don't agree, but you're entitled to your opinions.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: I wonder

                          Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                          I too think that term limits are stupid and for the same reasons above.
                          So should we repeal the 22nd amendment?

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