On November 2nd, Vote NO on any School Levy

[boytyperanma]

Re: On November 2nd, Vote NO on any School Levy

Try staying on topic for once, you know exactly who I'm referring to.

Yes by stay on topic I think what he means is don't dissent from the ridiculous notion he's put forward.

[DUNBAR PLUMBING]

Re: On November 2nd, Vote NO on any School Levy

Schools are big business, with taxpayers footing the bill. Tell me where one school that has to cut out bus service, has to seal off certain parts of their building due to failing structure, plumbing, mechanicals...

and within 40 miles of that same school, the median range of homes per capita in value along with wage earners goes significantly up,


and that school builds almost 5 acres under roof, and never a second step to stop and breathe that once again, they are building another addition or building because the money flows in an unstoppable motion.


It's an enterprise and my educational levels and spirited views came from a school that had very little. It's not the scenery that creates wisdom. Turning these grade schools, elementary/middle/high schools into what looks like huge campuses....???

Prove to me that an indoor swimming pool at a school makes a better student. Prove to me that a juice machine in a hallway, something I didn't have growing up makes these students smarter.

Prove to me that the latest and greatest new buildings that are not found in areas where tax bases can't afford such measures employs the idea that the retard thinking of justification is excuseable when it cannot be done everywhere.

And still; students still come from these areas where old building structures with superior knowledge and still grow to become educated individuals.

I can delve into even deeper discussion about the budgets, and what's justified and what isn't.

I dealt with 31 differents schools this year and everyone talks, and I'm listening. I was warned going into one of my endeavors that you are entering into a world of politics you will not like, and your time will be tough.

And then this video surfaces on the internet, confirming what I already understand.

I'm teaming up with the manager of the #1 AM radio station in the country in spreading the word. It's working and I stand for all the poor kids like myself that grew up in old schools.

I don't recall 4 new walls a requirement to learn.

[DUNBAR PLUMBING]

Re: On November 2nd, Vote NO on any School Levy

(P.S. A HUGE factor in some of the lacking in the U.S. performance is the decline of the traditional American family.)


J.C.

Yes by stay on topic I think what he means is don't dissent from the ridiculous notion he's put forward.

Read the above words. Your type is notorious for being purposely unaware of the obvious and feel the fix is always in justified wants, not needs.


Ridiculous?

If the world has it (I hope so because it'll stop this abusive pattern of unjustified spending) and for the next 7 years, no schools can spend money on anything but student enrichment,


does everyone that's reading my typed response understand what that provides for our youth, and the future of americans?


That would better our future, save the bricks and mortar. Work with what you have, not what you desire. Until this spending is managed it is just a horrible glutton towards good taxpayers watching money being misspent for the wrong causes.

There are too many students/parents of schools that agree that it's out of control.

[boytyperanma]

Re: On November 2nd, Vote NO on any School Levy

More money is spent per student in the U.S. than any other country in the world.

I don't think that's true. I recall reading other countries do spend more then the US. I think the Swiss spend the most money per student of both primary and secondary educations.

Otherwise I do agree with the notion of your post. Throwing money at education is not a strait forward answer. More funding does not necessarily mean better education, though there does seem to be a strong correlation.

Education isn't an area I have a hell of a lot of expertise on. It is complex and the results of changes today aren't actually scene until years later. By then it becomes extremely difficult to determine if the changes made where actually what made a difference or whether a change in the society did so.

I leave these issues for smarter people then myself to decide. Those who have had the luxury of higher education are better equipped to translate the data. I'll stick to fixing peoples pumps.

[BobsPlumbing]

Re: On November 2nd, Vote NO on any School Levy

A couple of years old. Still relevant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx4pN-aiofw


J.C.

[DUNBAR PLUMBING]

Re: On November 2nd, Vote NO on any School Levy

Good video.

Credible source.

It cannot be disputed because it's an ongoing problem that's getting worse, not better in our schools.


A big Hola! from Steve in KY

[Frankiarmz]

Re: On November 2nd, Vote NO on any School Levy

There are two different issues being discussed here as one, but they should not be confused. First issue is pay for education including teachers, and whether of not the districts can afford the increases. Mixed into that question is wheter or not more money buys better teachers/educated students?

I believe many school districts are in financial crisis and cannot afford more pay and benefits to teachers regardless of their preformance or results.

Our money may buy better teachers, and changes in policy may ensure better teachers, but there is still the problem of undisciplined students. My sixteen year old daughter tells me that in most classes the teachers can either spend their time trying to discipline students who are disruptive, or attempt to ignore them and teach those who want to learn. I can go to the school and complain, but the trouble makers will not be removed.

I agree with J.C. that the decline of the family unit plays a huge part in this problem, in addition to modern distractions (cell phones, ipods, etc.) a general lack of respect for authority, and the legal inability to remove trouble makers. I hate to sound like a old guy living in the past, but years ago kids were not nearly as distuptive in class. Parents were called to school if their child acted up and in most cases the problem was resolved. Now the parents need to be disciplined, and there is no one to do that for us!

I am glad my younger daughter will be graduating high school in June. The system is broken, and some children deserve to be left behind. Maybe if parents were held accountable for their childrens behavior, and if trouble makers were sent to other special schools things would improve? The way things stand now, in my opinion, you could have great teachers and still end up with bad results.

[Pipestone Kid]

Re: On November 2nd, Vote NO on any School Levy

A teacher is somewhere in the world tonight preparing lessons to teach your children while you are watching TV. In the minute it takes you to read this, teachers all over the world are not only saving lives, but they are also sacrificing their own time for your child's literacy, prosperity and future. ..

[BobsPlumbing]

Re: On November 2nd, Vote NO on any School Levy

A good teacher is somewhere in the world tonight preparing lessons to teach your children while you are watching TV. In the minute it takes you to read this, teachers all over the world are not only saving lives, but they are also sacrificing their own time for your child's literacy, prosperity and future. ..

I put good in your statement. I think that is a truer statement. Hope I'm not putting words in your mouth. Also, everyone immediately thinks of a teacher as someone at a school.

Wrong. At least to me. The first and most important teachers are parents. They set the foundation principles to give the good teachers a better chance to bring a child success. I have to say that the decline of the traditional family contributes greatly to the less prepared child provided to the good teachers. That, in turn, gives them worse results if things are done the same.

Finally, it's every adults responsibility to be a good role model and teacher in their own way whether they have children or not. You think I'm gonna' stand by and watch a kid do something wrong knowing I can help them or correct them? Not going to happen. I'll deal with whatever consequences that may involve also.

P.S. I have no idea why someone would argue against change of the current public system processes when the end product has proven to be in decline and the average childrens' family has changed. In a math sort of way, you've changed the data in the equation and expect the same results. Insanity.


J.C.

[DUNBAR PLUMBING]

Re: On November 2nd, Vote NO on any School Levy

FAILED

http://www.fox19.com/global/story.asp?s=13433875


FAILED

http://www.wlwt.com/r/25609775/detail.html




3 levies that failed. The taxpayer has spoken on behalf of frivilous spending.


And what's their retort?


"Classes and programs are to be cut immediately."


Oh really?


Hurt the child, the learning individual before the sacrifice of another acre of building or new ball field because "7 ball fields at our location isn't enough, and how dare you say we can get by on a grass ball field. HOW DARE YOU! "


Keep building these freaking monster "learning centers" thinking you're going to spout all the good, when in reality it is greed that finds itself exposed in critical moments like these.

Nothing wrong with forward thinking as long as it is considered respectable and normal to a community and not trying to beat the school down the street.

And what about those poor inner city kids that have been getting educated in 150+ year old schools? Do you shut them up and complain when you spend $250,000.00 in room air conditioners while schools less than 10 miles away enjoy lavish open air atriums with architecture that cost the school probably 1 million just for the F-ing floor plans?

HOW DARE YOU?!?!


Tribe (people) have spoken. Put your flame out and get off the island. LEAVE.

Quit bilking the taxpayer for your criminal ways of building small empires you call schools. Tonight was your reality check.



Thank you Mr. and Mrs. Taxpayer for stopping this violent rape of the tax system.

[Ace Sewer]

Re: On November 2nd, Vote NO on any School Levy

This isn't New Jersy, but it is close by.

An interesting feature on a little known facet of the NYC public school system

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radi...uman-resources

hit 'play episode'... it's radio so you can turn up the volume and do other things... it's an hour long.


School levy's in general... I'd do a lot of looking at what you are financing. The midwest in particular got hit hard by finance schemes that traded on their high bond rating to make an income stream out of an interest rate split. They bought into schemes so complex the people selling them didn't really undrstand them, let alone the buyers. More than one was about to explode the last I heard about it. If you are in one of those communities, I think it'd be wise to look at what happens if you just let it default and start over before trying to finance your way out of it.

I don't know that throwing more $ at them is the answer, but if we, America, are ever going to claw our way out of the hole we are in then quality public education has to be a part of the solution.

I don't know if things have changed, but when I was in high school, the little bit of trade education still available was stigmatised; it was for the boys too dumb to consider college. As someone considered far too smart for anything but college, that is the route I took. It took me until I was nearly thirty to throw my college degree and my cubicle job out the window and get started doing something I liked.

I think everyone here will agree that there is too much emphasis on college and too little on trades in public education. I got pushed in a direction I was not suited for and was not happy in because everyone is supposed to go to college if they possibly can, and I could. It's supposed to be the goal, and anything else is settling.

I look around now and it just seems like a bachelor's degree is getting dumbed down enough that, if you've got $ for tuition, there is a school that will take you. And if you are like me (smart, capable, and unhappy/feeling like you haven't really done anything if you haven't lifted something heavy today and don't have any cuts or calluses on your hands) you'll get pushed away from exctly the areas you can excel in and be happiest in and contribute the most in.

Not really sure where I meant to go with this, but

- I agree wholeheartedly; there is nothing more sad and disgusting than someone sucking a tit and being smug about it

- I think part of the problem is that we've somehow lost the ethic that it is GOOD and RIGHT and not only that but WISE to earn your pay, and instead it's become somehow a bragging right for young folks that they scam their income

- I think the solution DOES start in the schools, but it's not just funding; it's a paradigm shift back to work ethic and to morality. That has to start with a MORAL DECISION to shun people who make $ by scam, in place of current culture whch honors $/respect over any actual accomplishment

- That can only come through education; only when people are trained in basic skills, and in the ability to critically analyze arguments and reason conclusions for themselves can we get to a place where I cannot win an election on emotion and mud and make a bundle on kickbacks from structuring things to beneifit rich cronies.

[boytyperanma]

Re: On November 2nd, Vote NO on any School Levy

And what's their retort?


"Classes and programs are to be cut immediately."


Oh really?

Did you expect a different response? I'm not sure if you are aware of this but corrupt elements are corrupt. They are willing to lie cheat and steal in order to further their own goals. In starve the beast solutions you force the corrupt elements to compete with the honest ones. As the honest ones don't have the advantages gained by lying cheating and stealing they are more likely to get frustrated by heavy hammer techniques and just walk away.

Tribe (people) have spoken. Put your flame out and get off the island. LEAVE.

That's hopelessly optimistic, that they'd simply walk away. What you've done is cut the food supply to the entire tribe. Everyone starves including the ones in most need of food. Until you are willing to actually get your hands dirty and chase them off with clubs you haven't solved the problem.

In my opinion you've only made things worse for everyone on the island if you stop there. A good follow through and dedication to actually solving the problem will bring much good.

It's my experience however that the people that vote to starve the beast often lack the commitment to deal with the problem, they pat themselves on the back and delude themselves into thinking they've done all the good they need to, leaving behind a system that is exactly the same as before be it less money. I suppose on one hand they've succeeded in saving the taxpayers money, on the other they've done nothing to offer a solution to the problem.

[DUNBAR PLUMBING]

Re: On November 2nd, Vote NO on any School Levy

Only in your feeble mind.



What you should be saying is this, as I'm correcting your flawed thinking:



"The school system now has to deal/understand what they need to do to minimize spending in regards to what funds they have, and consider lowering the almost majestic salaries that teachers are being paid, starting from the top and working it down to the bottom.

Does the janitor really need to be making a base salary of $77,000.00 before benefits?

Do they????

I don't feel sorry for anyone, ever...when I see 6 figure employees running around justifying their existence because they "teach our future" antics and feel it's beneath them to buy a box of #2 pencils for their students.

So,

Let them make the big bad taxpayer look cruel and evil while those teachers sit in one of their 19 board rooms and their $290.00 office chairs and their $490 dry erase chalkboard......and don't forget the $2900.00 digital projector that's on its way out the door into the garbage because they can't get channel 4 to show on the unit. "Oh, we should buy this next one from "X' company as we have a working contractual relationship. It's only $5990 and even though I just saw the same thing at Best Buy for $899...


Our children certainly cannot do with sub par... only the best for our students.

Pfffffft.

Pssssssssh.

GO ahead and build a video showing these kids struggling, like those late night shows with kids getting a grain of rice every 3 days sitting next to a polluted stream. Forget the video of the natives/poor that are humping like mad dogs in their grass hut, creating those who suffer.


You speak to the 10's of thousands that protect their use of property taxes across the country and talk your spiel and see how fast your message gets drowned by reality.


And thank you for being a willing participant in this thread, keeping it in the wide open every time I'm banging keys. It's a harnessed power...really is.

[Ace Sewer]

Re: On November 2nd, Vote NO on any School Levy

Until you are willing to actually get your hands dirty and chase them off with clubs you haven't solved the problem.

So very ready for that.

Have to recognize though that nowadays the clubs are exposure and public censure.

And that, in current culture (have you seen an episode of 'Jersey Shore?), it is pretty difficult to drum up any current of righteous indignation over something which you have to actually choose to value substance over style to get angry about. And must have time, interest, and ability to reason to understand in the first place. And on top of that be able to discern truth through the spun fog to see.

[boytyperanma]

Re: On November 2nd, Vote NO on any School Levy

Only in your feeble mind.

So my mind is feeble now?

No civility can be offered here?

Simply mock and denigrate your opponents rather then refute their ideas.

You want to say my ideas are feeble sure. I can accept that.
You want to disagree. I can accept that.
You want to argue your own ideas or argue against mine. I can accept that.

You can't seem to do those things without throwing out a few personal insults. I accept that too but think much less of you as a person.