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On November 2nd, Vote NO on any School Levy

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  • #31
    Re: On November 2nd, Vote NO on any School Levy

    I've been voting against propositions for school bonds for a long time now. The video is just a sound bite. It's an indicator but not the reason.

    I vote against school funding because IMO they do not use what they have efficiently, effectively or in an accountable way. There are plenty of studies that show that there is a poor correlation between school funding and student performance. Some of the best performing schools have less funding per student than poor performing schools. Very many good-performing private schools have less funding per student than public schools that don't perform as well.

    I watched as my own kids grew up (they're all out of school now) and saw the public school district waste money on nonsense both at the schools AND for a new lush district office.

    Here in CA, we see the teachers' unions supporting EVERY ballot measure that could possibly result in more public money being available for them, irrespective of whether the ballot measure itself is a good thing or a bad thing for the State. While we have one of the best higher eduction systems in the world here in CA (the UC system in conjunction with an excellent State College system and network of JCs) we have very poor primary and grade school performance, and have for many years.

    It is a mistake to assume that pumping money into an area will automatically make the performance in that area better. We see it time and time again, especialy when there is little or no acountability built into the system. Recent examples are the TARP (no accountability) that didn't loosen up lending, and the Obama stimulus (no accountability) that didn't heal the job loss problems in this Country. The teachers fight tooth and nail for their tenure system and resist performance testing (both teacher and student) with great vigor... which means, to me, no accountability. Why would we think that pouring more tax dollars into the schools with no acountability would do anything except cost more money?

    School funding is one of those issues that exploits public sentimentality. Of course everyone wants the best for the children. I do, too. But achieveing that is quite different from throwing money at the problem.


    Of course there are some exceptional, ethical and dedicated teachers. I have had some, my kids have had some. There are many more, however, that are mediocre at best... and some that are totally "phoning it in". Have had those as well, as have my children.

    When those in command decide to use what they have efficiently, effectively and in an accountable way, I'll be pleased to support increasing their funding.
    Last edited by Andy_M; 11-05-2010, 02:15 PM.

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    • #32
      Re: On November 2nd, Vote NO on any School Levy

      Originally posted by Andy_M
      I've been voting against propositions for school bonds for a long time now. The video is just a sound bite. It's an indicator but not the reason.

      I vote against school funding because IMO they do not use what they have efficiently, effectively or in an accountable way. There are plenty of studies that show that there is a poor correlation between school funding and student performance. Some of the best performing schools have less funding per student than poor performing schools. Very many good-performing private schools have less funding per student than public schools that don't perform as well.

      I watched as my own kids grew up (they're all out of school now) and saw the public school district waste money on nonsense both at the schools AND for a new lush district office.

      Here in CA, we see the teachers' unions supporting EVERY ballot measure that could possibly result in more public money being available for them, irrespective of whether the ballot measure itself is a good thing or a bad thing for the State. While we have one of the best higher eduction systems in the world here in CA (the UC system in conjunction with an excellent State College system and network of JCs) we have very poor primary and grade school performance, and have for many years.

      It is a mistake to assume that pumping money into an area will automatically make the performance in that area better. We see it time and time again, especialy when there is little or no acountability built into the system. Recent examples are the TARP (no accountability) that didn't loosen up lending, and the Obama stimulus (no accountability) that didn't heal the job loss problems in this Country. The teachers fight tooth and nail for their tenure system and resist performance testing (both teacher and student) with great vigor... which means, to me, no accountability. Why would we think that pouring more tax dollars into the schools with no acountability would do anything except cost more money?

      School funding is one of those issues that exploits public sentimentality. Of course everyone wants the best for the children. I do, too. But achieveing that is quite different from throwing money at the problem.

      When those in command decide to use what they have efficiently, effectively and in an accountable way, I'll be pleased to support increasing their funding.

      Well stated. That is exactly how I feel as well.
      www.ClinkscalesSeptic.com

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      • #33
        Re: On November 2nd, Vote NO on any School Levy

        Originally posted by Andy_M View Post
        I've been voting against propositions for school bonds for a long time now. The video is just a sound bite. It's an indicator but not the reason.

        I vote against school funding because IMO they do not use what they have efficiently, effectively or in an accountable way. There are plenty of studies that show that there is a poor correlation between school funding and student performance. Some of the best performing schools have less funding per student than poor performing schools. Very many good-performing private schools have less funding per student than public schools that don't perform as well.

        I watched as my own kids grew up (they're all out of school now) and saw the public school district waste money on nonsense both at the schools AND for a new lush district office.

        Here in CA, we see the teachers' unions supporting EVERY ballot measure that could possibly result in more public money being available for them, irrespective of whether the ballot measure itself is a good thing or a bad thing for the State. While we have one of the best higher eduction systems in the world here in CA (the UC system in conjunction with an excellent State College system and network of JCs) we have very poor primary and grade school performance, and have for many years.

        It is a mistake to assume that pumping money into an area will automatically make the performance in that area better. We see it time and time again, especialy when there is little or no acountability built into the system. Recent examples are the TARP (no accountability) that didn't loosen up lending, and the Obama stimulus (no accountability) that didn't heal the job loss problems in this Country. The teachers fight tooth and nail for their tenure system and resist performance testing (both teacher and student) with great vigor... which means, to me, no accountability. Why would we think that pouring more tax dollars into the schools with no acountability would do anything except cost more money?

        School funding is one of those issues that exploits public sentimentality. Of course everyone wants the best for the children. I do, too. But achieveing that is quite different from throwing money at the problem.


        Of course there are some exceptional, ethical and dedicated teachers. I have had some, my kids have had some. There are many more, however, that are mediocre at best... and some that are totally "phoning it in". Have had those as well, as have my children.

        When those in command decide to use what they have efficiently, effectively and in an accountable way, I'll be pleased to support increasing their funding.
        Hey look at that, a well thought out argument. I wish the everyone could present idea's in such a manner.

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        • #34
          Re: On November 2nd, Vote NO on any School Levy

          Originally posted by boytyperanma View Post
          Hey look at that, a well thought out argument. I wish the everyone could present idea's in such a manner.
          It has been my experience to find that bad ideas reqiure many words.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: On November 2nd, Vote NO on any School Levy

            Originally posted by tailgunner View Post
            It has been my experience to find that bad ideas reqiure many words.
            Nah 'I'm gona buy a Cadillac' a couple days after winning the election was a terrible idea that only took a few words.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: On November 2nd, Vote NO on any School Levy

              Originally posted by boytyperanma View Post
              Nah 'I'm gona buy a Cadillac' a couple days after winning the election was a terrible idea that only took a few words.
              Well, the correct answer to that idea is "Nope."

              See how it works?

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: On November 2nd, Vote NO on any School Levy

                The thing I hate about the school district in my area is..these mothers' run to the school board and say.."My johnny needs this and needs that blah blah blah".

                My High school was pretty decent when I went there. Now they have a baseball and Tennis stadium in where you could hold professional tournaments/ teams there!!

                I also understand someone had to pay for me when they didn't have kids in school, but it's WAY out of hand now.

                If these Parents want certain things beyond the norm for their kids...let them pay for it themselves!!!! We need another way to fund these schools, and someone needs to throttle these school boards.

                Stop putting that burden on the taxpayer!

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                • #38
                  Re: On November 2nd, Vote NO on any School Levy

                  People that don't have children of their own can still run for school boards. Just saying.


                  Maybe if rather then bitching about what the school boards do and approve, some of you could take part in that process.

                  Yes if a school board is entirely composed of parents with children in the school system of course they are going aim for more spending. Their children are beneficiaries of more money in the school.

                  Put a few people on the school board without children and they might be a bit more stingy when it comes to tax increases that they don't benifit from.

                  Better policies come from debate. Create a school board that has those debates.

                  Or you could just keep bitching or arbitrarily cutting funds and hoping they get cut in the right places. Hope you have your fingers crossed.

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                  • #39
                    Re: On November 2nd, Vote NO on any School Levy

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                    "Oh Judy, We'll never get you that indoor pool you wanted. I know, the children will never learn how to swim." cries uncontrollably
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                    • #40
                      Re: On November 2nd, Vote NO on any School Levy

                      Originally posted by boytyperanma View Post
                      People that don't have children of their own can still run for school boards. Just saying.


                      Maybe if rather then bitching about what the school boards do and approve, some of you could take part in that process.

                      Yes if a school board is entirely composed of parents with children in the school system of course they are going aim for more spending. Their children are beneficiaries of more money in the school.

                      Put a few people on the school board without children and they might be a bit more stingy when it comes to tax increases that they don't benifit from.

                      Better policies come from debate. Create a school board that has those debates.

                      Or you could just keep bitching or arbitrarily cutting funds and hoping they get cut in the right places. Hope you have your fingers crossed.
                      Considering I live in a Liberal area now, how far do you think I would get, running to get on the school board with my "stop" spending views? Heavily union in my area as well...will I get any votes from them to put me on the school board?

                      Lastly, you NEVER mix business and Politics! I wouldn't want my Plumbing & Heating business to suffer because I'm expressing my first amendment rights if I was on the school board. I work for quite a few teachers...how would that work out for me?

                      I'd rather hound my congressman and bypass the school board all together, because in the end, it's the state who is going to make those decisions on school funding for the future.

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                      • #41
                        Re: On November 2nd, Vote NO on any School Levy

                        Around here, the school budget votes are always on a Tuesday in May not on election day. If it is successful, the budget is approved. If it fails, the school board gets another bite at the apple with a revote. If it fails a second time, then the school goes on an "austerity" budget, which will still likely increase spending because there are various mandatory items (e.g., union negotiated contracts, transportation for students who live more than 2 miles away, etc.).

                        When I lived on LI, I voted no to any increase since they were usually above 5%. In my current district I've either not voted or voted Yes, as the increases have been about 4%. The problem is the spending always compounds, and never decreases or even stays flat. 4% compounding for 10 years is still a 48% increase. A lot of the districts on LI were having increases of 10%+ each year. Other districts in my county have much higher taxes and are much less taxpayer friendly.

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                        • #42
                          Re: On November 2nd, Vote NO on any School Levy

                          Originally posted by Flux View Post
                          Considering I live in a Liberal area now, how far do you think I would get, running to get on the school board with my "stop" spending views? Heavily union in my area as well...will I get any votes from them to put me on the school board?

                          Lastly, you NEVER mix business and Politics! I wouldn't want my Plumbing & Heating business to suffer because I'm expressing my first amendment rights if I was on the school board. I work for quite a few teachers...how would that work out for me?
                          So you are saying you'd stand up for your beliefs if you weren't so afraid?

                          Yes standing on principal does have ramifications. People who oppose you will not support you.

                          I do question the veracity of your beliefs if even you yourself admit your community wouldn't support them. Either people believe they are spending too much money on the schools or they don't. It sounds like in your case not enough money is being spent and a majority of the tax payers are looking to change that.

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                          • #43
                            Re: On November 2nd, Vote NO on any School Levy

                            Originally posted by Flux View Post
                            Lastly, you NEVER mix business and Politics!
                            Impossible. By electing no to speak your mind to protect financial interests, aren't you practicing politics, and mixing them with your business interests? I'm not saying that there is any problem with your choice. It's your choice, and in your situation it sounds like it's a good one. But be realistic. You are choosing to mask your views and funnel your opposition through other less visible channels to maintain the interest of your business. Many a politician has suppressed his true views or pursue them covertly on one topic in order to gain support on another that he believes is more important.

                            Politics are a part of life from time you enter first grade. For everyone.

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                            • #44
                              Re: On November 2nd, Vote NO on any School Levy

                              Originally posted by Andy_M View Post
                              Impossible. By electing no to speak your mind to protect financial interests, aren't you practicing politics, and mixing them with your business interests? I'm not saying that there is any problem with your choice. It's your choice, and in your situation it sounds like it's a good one. But be realistic. You are choosing to mask your views and funnel your opposition through other less visible channels to maintain the interest of your business. Many a politician has suppressed his true views or pursue them covertly on one topic in order to gain support on another that he believes is more important.

                              Politics are a part of life from time you enter first grade. For everyone.
                              I respect his decision, unfortunately I have witnessed supposedly liberal, free thinking teachers act very differently once you express a view they do not support. Better to take their money and do a good job, than speak your mind and have no job.

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                              • #45
                                Re: On November 2nd, Vote NO on any School Levy

                                During the Presidential election in 2004, I pulled up to a customer's home after voting. I had a Bush sticker on the back of my truck, and I was waiting for the customer to come home. When she pulled up, she had a Kerry sticker on her jacket, and she saw my Bush sticker on the back of my truck.

                                Now this lady was always nice to me, but her tune changed when she saw this sticker, because she was part of this democratic committee in our area.

                                After working for her numerous times, she called my father a few days later to say that we were never invited back, and that all of a sudden our charge of $145.00 to install a kitchen wide spread faucet was too much (after she knew the charge up front), because she is a business owner herself, and knows what it costs to be in business.

                                Another time, a customer asked me what i thought about Bush (cause I could tell he wanted to rip into him) and let's just say I was never invited back to do any more work.

                                After some of those incidents..I just tell customers I don't follow politics to keep the peace.
                                It's bad enough I live in an area that has a lot of Pennsylvania dutch who will only call dutchmen into their home to do work, as my italian last name leaves me at a disadvantage already. I don't need my political/social views to be another reason for the phone not to ring either.

                                I'm ALL FOR expressing my 1st amendment rights, but NOT at the expense of keeping food on the table and the lights on.
                                Last edited by Flux; 11-08-2010, 10:11 PM.

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