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  • #16
    Re: A Change?

    Originally posted by Pipestone Kid View Post
    Yes, the republicans will be different. They probably will not do a much better job on the economy. I am concerned about how the democratic healthcare bill will be paid for and God forbid cap and trade was passed! Will the republicans finally get around to securing our borders, something President Bush refused to do as he praised the illegals in our country for a job well done. (No, they won't secure the borders. Who hires the illegals?)

    I don't expect the republicans to do much, but the democrats needed a wake up call. Secure our borders, find out who is here and if they are here illegally either let them stay and pay their fair share or send them back! If the government of afghanistan is going to accept the taliban with open arms once we leave, whay are we there? Why are our brave young men and women being wounded and dying? (We are there cause G.W. sidetracked us in Iraq)

    Will the republicans simply block President Obama from doing anything good for our country? That seems to be the game both sides play as our country grows weaker and china grows stronger ( You are right on that score--They proved that in the last two years)

    Seriously Frankie, you didn't listen too well when Obama was elected. He said we were in a helluva mess and it would take a long time to get out. You expected a miracle worker and when he wasn't you became unhappy. I, too, would like to see low or no unemployment, a good interest rate on my savings, etc., but I grew up in the 30's and I saw what my parents and neighbors went through. It took a long time to get to where it was "comfortable" after the crash of 29. It won't be any easier this time.
    No, I did listen to all the promises and I did not expect miracles. Go back and read my posts from the time of that election and all the bad blood on this Forum. I remember saying God could not fix the mess we were in and I still feel that way. I do think it was reasonable to think the President could secure the borders, but he refused unless he got what he wanted!

    He did not have to push for that healthcare bill which the taxpayers cannot afford and which was passed with the same dirty tricks the republicans use.

    He should not have pushed cap and trade, another death sentence for an already crippled America.

    We both know the republicans will do little to nothing to improve the country, but if they don't cause more harm I will consider that a win.

    I'll ask again, who will save us? Who will stop the wars we cannot fund without more debt, stop brave young Americans from being disabled and killed. Who will legislate to make it profitable to bring back the jobs and free us from our consumer dependance on the rest of the world?

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    • #17
      Re: A Change?

      Gotta keep recent history in mind.

      The Dems have stunk up the joint. No need to rehash all that here. Election results say it all.

      But the Repubs did, too. The bank credit collapse, subsequent TARP, irresponsible actions of the Federal Reserve, and massive outsourcing of jobs happened under the previous Repub administration. Outsourcing started long before, really - in the 1970s with the insane notion of the "service economy".

      The Repubs were the champions of bank deregulation, and even in the face of the banking crisis, they STAUNCHLY opposed and successfully watered down banking reform. Not to say that the Dems attempt at reform was any good to start with. The financial interests own both parties.

      The Repubs, IMO (no proof, but I do believe this) are responsible for allowing us to more or less completely abandon anti-trust regulations in the United States.

      Neither party has demonstrated any real solutions to the entitlement fiasco (Social Security and Medicare). I expect the Repubs to push for increasing the retirement age to 70 or 72. They have no choice other than a crushing tax increase, which would be an economic damper to say the least. It's all really just a massive cop out to put the entitlement problem that ALL politicians created squarely on the backs of the American People.

      Despite all the talk about keeping Government small, the Repubs didn't do it when they were in control.

      The Repubs (some of them anyway) architected the "Weapons of Mass Destruction" argument that cost the US quite a bit of money and resulted in the deaths of thousands of US soldiers... with no real benefit to the terror situation that I can see. Not to mention the massive loss of life to Iraqi citizens, most of whom are no more terrorists than you or I. Those that weren't involved in the plan, from both parties, didn't have the judgement or common sense to recognize that was trumped up.

      Neither party has pushed doing anything significant towards developing alternate energy. Despite the fact that revenue from oil is funding those that want to destroy us. I don't know... sounds like treason to me. We put men on the moon with slide rules and computers that used RELAYS and core memory, for cryin' out loud. I have a hard time believing we couldn't develop viable technologies in the areas of biofuels, solar energy, nuclear energy, geothermal, etc. Does this sound right to you? Yet we have the money to funnel to the bankers (repubs), to stimulus packages (dems) and to pointless wars (repubs)...in amounts that could well SOLVE THE ENERGY PROBLEM.

      The Repubs instituted the Patriot Act, which seriously encroaches on personal freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution, in the name of the war on terror. IMO, we should beware of anyone or any group that wants to limit personal freedom in the name of a faceless enemy. It has come to light that the vast majority of Congresspersons and Senators (both parties) voted on that massive bill without actually reading it first. Our way of life is based on the freedoms guaranteed in the Constitution. I personally see little difference if those are taken away by radicals that hate our way of life, or internal politicians. The end result is the same, it's just the rhetoric surrounding it that is different.

      The Tea Party is in some respects a breath of fresh air. However, I have yet to hear anyone in that movement say anything that will really move us toward rebuilding our industrial competitiveness. I have a nagging feeling in the back of my mind that some of them may be opportunists taking advantage of a desperate electorate to gain a foothold. Sarah Palin, for instance. I hope I'm wrong. We shall see. I don't think I'm wrong about Ms. Palin. In any case, I am waiting for someone in that movement to start pushing something -- anything -- that will make a difference, instead of making emotional speeches.

      In the end, both parties spout rhetoric but neither really seems to have a plan that will make much difference. IMO, there is virtually no difference between them other than the specific groups they cater to. Meanwhile, we are circling the drain. The middle class has disappeared. It's not because they don't work hard enough. It's because others have adjusted the rules of the game allow a small number of folks to take all the money.

      Nevertheless, it's good to have voted out lots of incumbents. My fear is that we don't have much time left.
      Last edited by Andy_M; 11-08-2010, 11:41 AM.

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      • #18
        Re: A Change?

        "...it's good to have voted out lots of incumbents..."
        My fear is that we didn't get rid of ALL of them.

        A 2 Term limit for all elected positions is what I want to see, and take away their lifetime health care and whatever else they steal from us after they leave office.

        Let them come back to live and work in world created by the fruits of their labors as we all must do.
        "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
        John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

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        • #19
          Re: A Change?

          Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
          My fear is that we didn't get rid of ALL of them.

          A 2 Term limit for all elected positions is what I want to see, and take away their lifetime health care and whatever else they steal from us after they leave office.

          Let them come back to live and work in world created by the fruits of their labors as we all must do.
          I'm with you but we would have to go much further. Stop all lobbying, track all the legislators earning, bank accounts, associations and spending. That kind of power and influence is ripe for corruption. Many of these legislators set up all sorts of tax shelters and charitable organizations, accept undisclosed donations and use their power to say thanks. They are supposed to be in office to serve we the people and our country!

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: A Change?

            Originally posted by Pipestone Kid View Post
            Yes, the republicans will be different. They probably will not do a much better job on the economy.

            I don't expect the republicans to do much, but the democrats needed a wake up call.

            Will the republicans simply block President Obama from doing anything good for our country?
            Clinton had a really good economy with a Republican congress, but yet the left will never give the Republicans credit. It was the Republicans who forced Clinton to the center where he should of been.

            Since 2006 the Democrats have controlled congress, and in 2008 until the Scott Brown election...you had a super majority, which meant you didn't need 1 republican vote to pass anything. All this silliness that happen over the last 2 years is squarely on the Democrats!

            Since 2008, if the democrats and their ideas were so great, they wouldn't of got their a$$es handed to them in the election. The American people didn't sign up for this type of change, and to be quite frank, most of the American people were duped!!

            You don't FORCE changes down the American people's throat, and tell them to just accept it.

            I hope and pray that Moderate Democrats take back over the Democratic party, so this country can be center/right where it runs best.

            For me as a conservative, I'll be watching the Republicans to make sure they deliver on what they promise, and I will be voting against any big spending progressive Republican in 2012.

            Lastly...the Tea party members are not Republicans!

            They are conservatives.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: A Change?

              Originally posted by Flux View Post
              ...

              Lastly...the Tea party members are not Republicans!

              They are conservatives.
              I wouldagree with the first part but disagree with the second. Some are Libertarians, some are Constitutionalists, some are moderate Democrats. Many are moderates, not conservatives, but realize that the antics of Pelosi and Reed, namely jamming through legislation without even reading and understanding what is in it is not the way we can survive as an independent republic.

              The tea party is not in agreement to endorse any party, but is united against the politicians that think they are an aristocratic ruling class. They are in agreement that the government is supposed to work for the people, not the reverse. All sides are to be heard, debated, and the best solution for the country is the aim.

              If the Republicans do not take this into account, and start to focus the legislature on fiscal responsibility, protecting the rights of legal citizens, and and protecting the country against foreign powers economically as well as militarily, they will find themselves on receiving end of what the Democrats just experienced.

              It is a movement about governmental responsibility, accountability, and preserving personal freedoms. That has not been the mantra or result of either the far right or far left agenda.

              JMTCW

              Go

              PS: Perhaps we are not in disagreement. It depends on what you mean when you you use the term "conservative", as that can encompass some religious and protectionist aspects that are not a uniting factor of the tea party.
              Last edited by Gofor; 11-08-2010, 08:10 PM.
              Practicing at practical wood working

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              • #22
                Re: A Change?

                Originally posted by Flux View Post
                Clinton had a really good economy with a Republican congress, but yet the left will never give the Republicans credit. It was the Republicans who forced Clinton to the center where he should of been.

                Since 2006 the Democrats have controlled congress, and in 2008 until the Scott Brown election...you had a super majority, which meant you didn't need 1 republican vote to pass anything. All this silliness that happen over the last 2 years is squarely on the Democrats!
                I don't think so. The subprime mortgage crisis, deregulation of the banks, and the outsourcing of jobs and entire industries can't be reasonably attributed to the Dems. Although they certainly contributed. These have been brewing since a lot further back than 2006. The Dems are doing a poor job, no doubt about that. So are the Repubs.


                Originally posted by Flux View Post
                Lastly...the Tea party members are not Republicans!

                They are conservatives.
                I hope you're right. I don't see any real evidence yet... no one does. They haven't done anything but (1)talk, and (2) elevate Sarah Palin to some level of prominence. Which in itself scares the heck out of me.
                Last edited by Andy_M; 11-08-2010, 08:08 PM.

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                • #23
                  Re: A Change?

                  Originally posted by Gofor View Post

                  PS: Perhaps we are not in disagreement. It depends on what you mean when you you use the term "conservative", as that can encompass some religious and protectionist aspects that are not a uniting factor of the tea party.
                  I'm a card carrying Republican, but share conservative views of Libertarians, Constitutionalists, etc. I can tolerate and respect Moderate Democrats, as they can lean to both sides. So I agree with what you're saying.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: A Change?

                    Originally posted by Andy_M View Post
                    I hope you're right. I don't see any real evidence yet... no one does. They haven't done anything but (1)talk, and (2) elevate Sarah Palin to some level of prominence. Which in itself scares the heck out of me.
                    I'm still trying to figure out what's so scary about Sara Palin. The only thing the haters seem to say is...she is dumb, and I just don't see it. If the left wants to play a game of "gotcha"..I can play that all night long on our Harvard graduate who is currently President.

                    At the time of the election, she was more qualified on paper that Obama was, and that's a fact.

                    Being a senator and Governor are equally important, but Governors have more responsibilities than senators. Which means Governors are very similar to the President but on a state level.

                    IMO..having a Socialist as President is far worst, because we have seen glimpses of his agenda's, and the country has now widely rejected them.

                    With a Super Majority that he had, Obama had the chance to be the savior he promised the American people. Instead it was filled with nonsense and out of control spending.

                    Spending 3 trillion dollars in 2 years is ridiculous!!

                    Barring a miracle...Obama is done in 2012.

                    2 other things really bothered me on election night. Harry Reid winning when his state has the highest unemployment rate in the country. Reid,Pelosi, and congress are part of the reason of what the American people are rejecting right now, but yet both get voted back in? Why? This is the reason why "term limits" needs to happen.

                    The other was..Richard Blumenthal beating Linda McMahon. Linda absolutely schooled this guy on TV about how to create a job...and she loses? This guy stumbled all over the question and didn't have a clear answer. Jobs are what people are screaming for!!!

                    This is what makes me mad when people vote straight party lines, and don't listen to what people actually say.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: A Change?

                      Originally posted by Flux View Post
                      I'm still trying to figure out what's so scary about Sara Palin. The only thing the haters seem to say is...she is dumb, and I just don't see it. If the left wants to play a game of "gotcha"..I can play that all night long on our Harvard graduate who is currently President.

                      At the time of the election, she was more qualified on paper that Obama was, and that's a fact.
                      I suggest you look into Sarah Palin's political career prior to her selcetion as McCain's running mate.

                      Her education and political background, prior to her election as Governor, wouldn't qualify her to be dog catcher in most cities. She has a degree in communications.

                      She was a two-term city council member in a place called Wasilla, which at the time had a population of 5500. Her total vote count for BOTH elections was less than 1000 votes.

                      She was then elected Mayor of Wasilla. Less than 1000 votes.

                      She was elected Governor in Nov 2006. She quit in 2009, demonstrating little committment to the State IMO. During her exceedingly short tenue as Governor, she spent a good part of 2008 running for Vice President. There were some questions about her ethics as Governor. But to me the biggest ethical point is that she quit a job she was elected to to serve her own ego and make a run at the Presidency. She's got stones, I'll say that for her.

                      That's it, that's her experience.

                      You really think that this person is qualified as the leader of the free world?

                      And yes, she is dumb. Her various interviews leave little doubt on that point.

                      But, even if you disagree with that, what exactly is she planning to do to get us out of our economic slump? Rebuild industry? Address the crumbling infrastructure? Defeat terrorism? And yet still more important... is anything that she DOES say specific enough to tell you anything REAL, and does it make any sense?

                      Seems to me that every time the issue of Palin comes up, her supporters fall back to, "Well, Obama is horrible". I happen to agree that Obama is horrible.

                      Obama's poor performance and lack of qualifications do not make Palin smarter or better qualified.

                      She has no game. Plain and simple. She is riding a crest of popularity based on popular dissatisfaction with poor leadership and her down-home folksy style.

                      We just can't let that happen to America. We need someone that is smart, savvy, politically effective, honest and has some horse sense. IT's a tall order. Much, much taller than Ms. Palin.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: A Change?

                        Originally posted by Andy_M View Post
                        I suggest you look into Sarah Palin's political career prior to her selcetion as McCain's running mate.

                        Her education and political background, prior to her election as Governor, wouldn't qualify her to be dog catcher in most cities. She has a degree in communications.

                        She was a two-term city council member in a place called Wasilla, which at the time had a population of 5500. Her total vote count for BOTH elections was less than 1000 votes.

                        She was then elected Mayor of Wasilla. Less than 1000 votes.

                        She was elected Governor in Nov 2006. She quit in 2009, demonstrating little committment to the State IMO. During her exceedingly short tenue as Governor, she spent a good part of 2008 running for Vice President. There were some questions about her ethics as Governor. But to me the biggest ethical point is that she quit a job she was elected to to serve her own ego and make a run at the Presidency. She's got stones, I'll say that for her.

                        That's it, that's her experience.

                        You really think that this person is qualified as the leader of the free world?

                        And yes, she is dumb. Her various interviews leave little doubt on that point.

                        But, even if you disagree with that, what exactly is she planning to do to get us out of our economic slump? Rebuild industry? Address the crumbling infrastructure? Defeat terrorism? And yet still more important... is anything that she DOES say specific enough to tell you anything REAL, and does it make any sense?

                        Seems to me that every time the issue of Palin comes up, her supporters fall back to, "Well, Obama is horrible". I happen to agree that Obama is horrible.

                        Obama's poor performance and lack of qualifications do not make Palin smarter or better qualified.

                        She has no game. Plain and simple. She is riding a crest of popularity based on popular dissatisfaction with poor leadership and her down-home folksy style.

                        We just can't let that happen to America. We need someone that is smart, savvy, politically effective, honest and has some horse sense. IT's a tall order. Much, much taller than Ms. Palin.
                        I didn't realize you were an "authority" on qualifications for President. I'm glad many don't share your biased opinion...but you're entitled to it.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: A Change?

                          The reason Sarah Palin is so popular is she is not one of "them". We live in a World now where people are happy with "How much worse could it be?".

                          Mark
                          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: A Change?

                            Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                            The reason Sarah Palin is so popular is she is not one of "them". We live in a World now where people are happy with "How much worse could it be?".

                            Mark
                            That's the thing I like most about her. Until she proves us wrong...I'd support her.

                            I'm not sure who I want to run for the G.O.P. in 2012.

                            I've always like Romney, but his healthcare plan is going to hurt him, even though he clearly stated that's it's different than Obama's AND his plan wasn't meant to be used Nation wide.

                            I really like Romney's expertise in the economy, and he would run circles around Obama in a debate over the economy.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: A Change?

                              I could totally hang out with her in Alaska as I love hunting in Alaska.

                              Our economy is in a mess and Romney is the only guy smart enough to help. It's sad to say but when your economy is in a mess you need a guy who can make the tough calls to build our economy rather than a guy trying to build new Social Programs.

                              Mark
                              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: A Change?

                                Originally posted by Flux View Post
                                I didn't realize you were an "authority" on qualifications for President. I'm glad many don't share your biased opinion...but you're entitled to it.
                                You said you didn't get why people found Palin to be scary. I told you why I found her to be unsuited, and you make a snide comment! You don't have to agree, but there is no cause to get nasty. I am not an authority any more than any one else with a vote... and the ability to read.

                                Actually, I think very many do indeed share my feelings regarding Ms. Palin. I will venture a prognostication that she will never make it to the Oval Office. Americans are sometimes naive... however I don't think she's going to be able to convince many to give her the throttle. I expect after Bush, Obama and the failing economy, people are going to be a lot more critical in the future than they've been in the past. At least I hope so. Blind faith in politicians has proven to not be too effective.

                                But I'm curious, what about my statements on her qualifications is biased (other than the obvious editorializing on her not being a threat to win the Nobel)? I presented the facts about her education and political experience. You can easily verify all of it.

                                I haven't yet met anyone that could tell me what Ms. Palin is planning to do that will help with the real problems we face. I notice you made no comment on that. IMO we don't need more empty promises and disappointment. If someone isn't promoting good ideas and plans before they are elected, I find it doubtful that they will suddenly come up with good ideas and plans afterwards. Not being "one of them" has, I agree, some emotional appeal. But without a good strategy it is just more rhetoric geared at getting votes.

                                That's my opinion and I'm stickin' to it. Until someone can convince me otherwise, that is.

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