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  • #31
    Re: A Change?

    Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
    The reason Sarah Palin is so popular is she is not one of "them". We live in a World now where people are happy with "How much worse could it be?".

    Mark
    That's why I voted straight republican this time, the dems proved to be worse. I don't think it's all about who is President regarding the mess we are in and a way out. In my opinion we need legislators who appreciate the seriousness of our situation and are willing to act swiftly to make the necessary changes. We also need better expert advisors, who is advising the President on all these issues? Many of us here believe we need to bring back manufacturing jobs and impose tarrifs and trade limits. That may be the wrong approach but have the experts done better? Many of us believe we should have secured borders and a plan to deal with the problem of illegals in our country but there too our government refuses to take action.
    Lastly, a lot of folks want the taliban stopped but believe our presence in afghanistan is only wasting money and putting brave young Americans at risk of injury and death.

    Why must we depend on a President who has expert qualifications in all these different areas when there are experts who could advise? If we had honest legislators on both sides of the aisle ready to do what needs to be done, instead of padding bills with pork and paling around with lobbyists, maybe things would change for the better?

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: A Change?

      Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
      That's why I voted straight republican this time, the dems proved to be worse. I don't think it's all about who is President regarding the mess we are in and a way out. In my opinion we need legislators who appreciate the seriousness of our situation and are willing to act swiftly to make the necessary changes. We also need better expert advisors, who is advising the President on all these issues? Many of us here believe we need to bring back manufacturing jobs and impose tarrifs and trade limits. That may be the wrong approach but have the experts done better? Many of us believe we should have secured borders and a plan to deal with the problem of illegals in our country but there too our government refuses to take action.
      Lastly, a lot of folks want the taliban stopped but believe our presence in afghanistan is only wasting money and putting brave young Americans at risk of injury and death.

      Why must we depend on a President who has expert qualifications in all these different areas when there are experts who could advise? If we had honest legislators on both sides of the aisle ready to do what needs to be done, instead of padding bills with pork and paling around with lobbyists, maybe things would change for the better?
      That was my point about Romney, he would make the tough calls. Obama promised to stop pork barrel spending yet continues to bills with them under the "emergency" excuse.

      Mark

      BTW: My oldest son just got to Afghanistan last week.
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: A Change?

        Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
        I could totally hang out with her in Alaska as I love hunting in Alaska.

        Our economy is in a mess and Romney is the only guy smart enough to help. It's sad to say but when your economy is in a mess you need a guy who can make the tough calls to build our economy rather than a guy trying to build new Social Programs.

        Mark
        I could hang out with Palin as well to go fishing, or make a trip to the rifle range.

        Somehow some way, Romney needs to be involved in 2012, to help get us out of this mess.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: A Change?

          Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
          That was my point about Romney, he would make the tough calls. Obama promised to stop pork barrel spending yet continues to bills with them under the "emergency" excuse.

          Mark

          BTW: My oldest son just got to Afghanistan last week.
          I just read a story last night in where Obama said he deeply regrets the pork barrel spending that happened over the past 2 years. But yet during his Presidential campaign, he said he was going to go "line by line" to eliminate the pork spending.

          I also agree with the both of you in where...Obama when he was elected, should of reached out to Romney, and put him on the economic team.

          As a Veteran of this country...my prayers are with your son.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: A Change?

            Thoughts and prayers with your son Mark.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: A Change?

              Romney as the savior of the nation? Him as the Republican nominee? I just doesn't see that happening.

              Personally coming from Massachusetts I'll never vote for him again. I cast my vote then headed out of state. When I came back 3 years later, he was nowhere to be found. At least Sarah Palin had the decency to quit in order to pursue other interests. Mitt went on collecting the pay check and wasn't doing the job. He was in the state less then 2 months of that year. Meanwhile outside the state he was denigrating his constituents as fuel to propel himself nationally. Thanks but no thanks buddy, he can go pound sand.

              Now to people outside my state, sure Romney would be a great Republican candidate in the general election but his chances of surviving the primary are slim.

              The Republican primaries have become more right wing and more ideologically driven. Romney is a political chameleon skilled in changing his ideology to fit the playing field and could certainly adjust to account for that, but his opponents aren't as forgetful as the voters. They'll be quick to remind people things like, him promising to be more progressive on gay rights than Ted Kennedy, him donating to Planned Parenthood and attending their fundraiser, him raising taxes in Massachusetts, him being the governor of the first state in the nation to legalize gay marriage. They'll tear him apart for his religious views. These things unfair or not are public domain and his opponents aren't going to offer him mercy.

              He can get the support of some of the fiscally conservative and is a decent choice for the big money of the party but they aren't gonna step up till he's more of a sure thing.

              Sarah Palin's a joke and personally I can't wait for her to show up in an actual election again so the 'people' can really let her know what they think of her. She has supporters, they are vocal and loud, but even in the Republican primary they aren't the majority. Big money has no interest in her, she is unpredictable and unreliable. They need someone that will eat **** if that's what's best for the party, they don't want someone that might 'go rogue' and refuse.

              Republicans will end up with a Michael Huckabee or a Haley Barbour. They'll get scrubbed up a bit for the General election and hopefully that will be enough to convince the moderates in the country to vote Republican.

              The idea that Obama is done as a result of the midterm elections has no basis in history. Presidents that have lost and lost hard during midterms have always been reelected.

              If the economy continues to improve Obama will get credit regardless of whether he deserves it or not and be reelected. If the economy goes back into a dive the field opens up again, but looking at that field with a Republican controlled house they are just as susceptible to losses as the Democrats just were.

              The Republicans can use their position in the house to improve the economy and lose their shot at the presidency or they can continue to do everything they can to stop the government from taking part and lose the house again.

              History repeating itself and Obama running against a 'Do nothing congress' is a real possibility.

              First order of business for the Republican house is to expand the deficit, lets see how that pans out with the Tea Party.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: A Change?

                I don't think Obama will be defeated as a *result* of the midterm elections. I do think that the elections were a clear indicator that he will lose because the public is strongly against his and Pelosi's agenda and fairly comprehensive failure to improve the economy.

                I do note that you intimated that the economy is improving. I realize that you can cite "facts" that show the recession is over. The economy is, however, not improving in the real ways that matter - number one being, jobs. The Fed's latest farce, "Quantitative Easing", amounts to printing currency and pumping it into circulation where it is only sure to make the certainty of inflation that we face that much more severe. Along with low interest rates, a lot of aging Americans are going to be in trouble. The Fed knows this... they don't care. They exist to serve the financial industry, not the American People.

                The repubs will probably do well in 2012. I think that there is an excellent chance, however, that they will work overtime to lose it. In California, I think a cardboard cutout of Bozo the Clown could have beaten Jerry Brown for Governor. But the best the Republicans could come up with was Meg Whitman. Similarly, this was our best chance to (finally) rid the Senate of Barbara Boxer, oops.... "Senator Boxer". But the Republican nominee was a medievil history major that was fired from her alleged career at HP, pinked tens of thousands of employees, sent scads of jobs offshore and turned the iconic manufacturer of scientific test equipment into, primarily, an importer of consumer grade electronics with a relatively small and low revenue group that builds servers (although they still do make a good enterprise class computer).

                My point is that if the Repubs screw it up in 2012, it will because they lost it... not because Obama won it. The midterms are not the reason Obama is in trouble. Poor performance is the reason.

                Oh... and Romney. I was a pretty fair Romney fan. I like that he has some business background,. But when I study what his plan is for the economy, I see a few good ideas but a lot that are very thin on detail. And I see that he is pretty staunchly against any import controls. I would be too, but times are desperate. The notion that he would make the tough decisions is interesting... I don't see him standing up and taking any tough stands on much of anything. Like I said, a few pretty good ideas and concepts, but I'm left asking, "where's the beef?"
                Last edited by Andy_M; 11-09-2010, 10:49 PM.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: A Change?

                  Originally posted by Andy_M View Post
                  The economy is, however, not improving in the real ways that matter - number one being, jobs.
                  The data doesn't support that assertion. Jobs have improved. Here is the White Houses take on that.

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qmybt...layer_embedded

                  Debate the politics all you want, the chart on the other hand is accurate. Private sector jobs are increasing. Feel free to debunk it if you feel it is inaccurate.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: A Change?

                    Originally posted by boytyperanma View Post
                    The data doesn't support that assertion. Jobs have improved. Here is the White Houses take on that.

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qmybt...layer_embedded

                    Debate the politics all you want, the chart on the other hand is accurate. Private sector jobs are increasing. Feel free to debunk it if you feel it is inaccurate.
                    Quite a few weeks ago, Beck and his staff blew this out of the water on his show. It was quite comical how he totally schooled this guy.

                    But..

                    According to the Bureau of Labor statistics, Obama has lost 2.19 million jobs. The unemployment rate according to them is at 9.6% and hasn't budged since May.

                    What's funny is...most positive "Private sector" jobs growth articles is from left leaning organizations.



                    Anything the White house posts is nothing but propaganda imo.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: A Change?

                      Originally posted by Andy_M View Post


                      My point is that if the Repubs screw it up in 2012, it will because they lost it... not because Obama won it. The midterms are not the reason Obama is in trouble. Poor performance is the reason.

                      Oh... and Romney. I was a pretty fair Romney fan. I like that he has some business background.
                      Who do you want to see run against Obama in 2012?

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: A Change?

                        Originally posted by boytyperanma View Post
                        The data doesn't support that assertion. Jobs have improved. Here is the White Houses take on that.

                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qmybt...layer_embedded

                        Debate the politics all you want, the chart on the other hand is accurate. Private sector jobs are increasing. Feel free to debunk it if you feel it is inaccurate.
                        I'll jump in with my unsupported opinons on this issue. The speaker mentions infrastructure projects and private sector jobs in the same breath, does this mean jobs paid for through taxes and bonds? How are the statistics reported? I ask this because government agencies have a sneaky way of bending the numbers to fit their needs, depending on who is in office and what they are trying to prove.

                        Just my opinion, but if our economy is depending on tax payer funded jobs and jobs created by small business, without addressing the trade deficit and a plan to encourage (FORCE) major manufacturing back to the USA, I think we are still in trouble. All those supposed jobs of the future sound real good in a sound bite, but our consumer dollars continue to leave our country never to return. Saving jobs or adding a few seem to be mere drops in a bucket that is full of holes!

                        We need a better understanding of what needs to be done and a monumental effort to make it happen. We are not served by either side placing blame or playing number games to make things seem better than most of us believe they are or will be in the foreseeable future.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: A Change?

                          Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                          How are the statistics reported? I ask this because government agencies have a sneaky way of bending the numbers to fit their needs, depending on who is in office and what they are trying to prove.

                          We need a better understanding of what needs to be done and a monumental effort to make it happen. We are not served by either side placing blame or playing number games to make things seem better than most of us believe they are or will be in the foreseeable future.
                          The White house tried a "Hail Mary" with the elections coming up, and rolled out this gem to paint a different picture and confuse people along the way.

                          Since the election...Obama is spewing a much different story now, and is again lying to the American people. Obama has calculated moves and each one has an order of sequence on when to be played. The one thing I give Obama credit for is...he's a master at misdirection and lying.

                          It's extremely easy to go back to the 2008 election to see the propaganda people ate up "like a fat kid in a candy store"....till now.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: A Change?

                            Originally posted by Flux View Post
                            Quite a few weeks ago, Beck and his staff blew this out of the water on his show. It was quite comical how he totally schooled this guy.
                            Yes we've seen many examples of Glenn Beck schooling people with his magic chalkboard. The thing is a freaking thing of miracles, anything he puts up on it suddenly becomes factual and accurate regardless of what the actual facts are. In Becks head he schools anybody, what continues to amaze me is how he manages to take people along for the ride.
                            If you care to find the clip in which he school's Austan Goolsbee please pull it up for me. I'm sure since you are using him as a news source you could also point to where he gets his data point's in his supposed schooling?

                            According to the Bureau of Labor statistics, Obama has lost 2.19 million jobs. The unemployment rate according to them is at 9.6% and hasn't budged since May.
                            Sure here is the news release. There is no dispute we have lost jobs since Obama took office. The unemployment numbers are not in dispute. What was in dispute was the claim we are not gaining jobs. We are now gaining jobs. If that trend continuous the country will be able to show a net positive job outcome in the years Obama has been in office.

                            What's funny is...most positive "Private sector" jobs growth articles is from left leaning organizations.
                            Care to back that up with any information or are you just making a baseless accusation?


                            Anything the White house posts is nothing but propaganda imo.
                            I see where your coming from the democratically elected leader of the free world doesn't deserve a modicum of respect. We should just assume anything coming out of his office is propaganda.

                            You do know he is your president right?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: A Change?

                              Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                              I'll jump in with my unsupported opinons on this issue. The speaker mentions infrastructure projects and private sector jobs in the same breath, does this mean jobs paid for through taxes and bonds? How are the statistics reported? I ask this because government agencies have a sneaky way of bending the numbers to fit their needs, depending on who is in office and what they are trying to prove.

                              Just my opinion, but if our economy is depending on tax payer funded jobs and jobs created by small business, without addressing the trade deficit and a plan to encourage (FORCE) major manufacturing back to the USA, I think we are still in trouble. All those supposed jobs of the future sound real good in a sound bite, but our consumer dollars continue to leave our country never to return. Saving jobs or adding a few seem to be mere drops in a bucket that is full of holes!

                              We need a better understanding of what needs to be done and a monumental effort to make it happen. We are not served by either side placing blame or playing number games to make things seem better than most of us believe they are or will be in the foreseeable future.
                              Frank I can't debate all the intricacies of our economy, I work on wells for a living, my skills as an economist are pretty limited. I'm pretty good at finding information and have a good memory for articles I've read if you want something specific I can try to find it for you.

                              As to how those statistics are reported the link in my last post goes to the Bureau of Labor statistics. There is a PDF associated with every number they present. Each goes into painstaking detail of the scientific method they used to create each statistic.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: A Change?

                                One of the problems here is that while most folks are fearful and disbelieving of the government (read that as the Obama administration) and the statistics that they put together, they are all too believing and ready to jump on anything that the Glen Beck's of the media want to spin.

                                It appears that the fearmongers of the media are much more believable to those who seek to blame everone else for the problems. I guess I don't understand why people can't comprehend that these guys make a bloody fortune trying to topple the government, and they're buying into it hand and fist.

                                As far as jobs being created with taxpayer's money... that's what that money is for. The government is the biggest employer in the country, directly and indirectly. If the government starts hoarding that taxpayer money, then this country will simply shutdown, completely!

                                Government expenditures for equipment, military hardware, wages, infrastructure, parks, highways, schools, etc. is basically the "seed money" that spins off practically every other type of job.

                                A good example of that is World War II... this nation came out of a massive depression, with extreme unemployment, and tens of thousands of people without homes or much of anything else. Taxes weren't being paid, because only a few had jobs. So with this nation in such a poor state of finances, how come we were able to go to war? How could we possibly rebuild our Pacific Fleet. How did we finance all of those factories, making tanks, trucks, jeeps, airplanes, ships, guns, ammunition, uniforms, helmets, and thousands of other war material items. How could we pay a million soldiers, millions more factory workers, and how could we supply the Brits with everything from food to airplanes? Then when it was all over, how could we then rebuild Europe and Japan, while at the same time having all the boom years of the late 40's, 50's and early 60's.

                                We did it because the government spent the MONEY. And in turn, it created millions of jobs and reaped taxes from those jobs... and the money spent by those government paid workers, bought food, and clothes and cars, and radio's and TV sets, and houses and kept the local butcher shop going and the grocery store clerks and everybody in the country who could stand up and do an ounce of work each day.

                                Today there is little difference... when the government spends money, people go to work! The problem though, is very much as Andy M pointed out, we have got to start spending that money on things made here in the U.S.A. And to do that, will take more then crying about it... it will take every citizen screaming at their congressmen and senator's to enact legistlation that will take away the encentives that American Corporations have for going overseas for cheap labor, no benefits, no environmental or safety restrictions. What we need to do is STOP BLAMING foreign workers and start blaming our representatives and corporate leaders. I'm all for buying "Made in the U.S.A.", but we have gone well beyond being able to do that any more; and I think that our government ought to start addressing some of those issues, by simply demanding "why is that not made here?" and "what can we do to change that?"

                                CWS
                                Last edited by CWSmith; 11-10-2010, 02:19 AM.

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