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  • Hard Times?

    I just heard that unemployment benefits will soon run out for 200,000 New Yorkers if the benefits are not extended. I didn't realize the number was so high. I'm concerned that without jobs, folks losing those benefits will also lose a place to live. What happens with no money for food, how about the children involved? I guess violence will also be on the rise? A retired police officer I know told me that domestic violence and divorce are also on the rise due to money problems affecting families. There just are not enough jobs, and this problem is all over the country, not just NY. I think we are headed for some very Hard Times.

  • #2
    Re: Hard Times?

    What do you think should take place?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Hard Times?

      Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
      I just heard that unemployment benefits will soon run out for 200,000 New Yorkers if the benefits are not extended. I didn't realize the number was so high. I'm concerned that without jobs, folks losing those benefits will also lose a place to live. What happens with no money for food, how about the children involved? I guess violence will also be on the rise? A retired police officer I know told me that domestic violence and divorce are also on the rise due to money problems affecting families. There just are not enough jobs, and this problem is all over the country, not just NY. I think we are headed for some very Hard Times.
      Out of those 200,000 how many do you think could actually go out and get a lowering paying job, but don't because they feel it's beneath them? How many of that 200,000 are living beyond their means?

      My father always taught me...in the Plumbing trade, you work for your slow time, so you can bank away money.

      I feel as though most people are too lazy to work 2 and 3 jobs to make ends meet.

      I would do whatever it took to make ends meet...even if it meant me doing menial jobs.

      I think the thought of violence has been brewing for awhile in this country. It's something I never want to see..but I've been preparing myself over the last 4 years for it.
      Last edited by Flux; 11-12-2010, 08:16 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Hard Times?

        If the number was 10,000, I'd agree that a good portion of those folks could find something to earn at least enough to eat, but at 200,000 even the low paying jobs are just not there. You should be aware that in NY average rents are over $1000 a month not including utilities (heat , electricity, gas). If you were lucky to find one low paying job, much less two or three, you'd still be short on food and rent.

        I don't know what should be done? Nationwide, how many folks can we either keep supporting, or allow to go homeless and hungry?

        I think at the very least we should encourage through legislation the rebuilding of factories to supply our consumer goods and JOBS!

        We can't keep raising taxes to house and feed the unemployed, the jobs are not there for those who want to work in my opinion. Maybe we could beg for aide and build tent cities for the millions soon to be homeless? Possibly get some foreign aide like haiti right here at home? Folks, there is a big problem here and I don't think it's all to blame on lazy folks living beyond their means. I do think about protecting what little I have in the event of a all out breakdown in civil obedience. How many folks can I kill if it comes to that?

        Where is the plan for real jobs? Tax cuts will not create millions of jobs to make up for the millions that are gone.
        Last edited by Frankiarmz; 11-12-2010, 08:49 PM.

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        • #5
          Re: Hard Times?

          Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
          If the number was 10,000, I'd agree that a good portion of those folks could find something to earn at least enough to eat, but at 200,000 even the low paying jobs are just not there. You should be aware that in NY average rents are over $1000 a month not including utilities (heat , electricity, gas). If you were lucky to find one low paying job, much less two or three, you'd still be short on food and rent.

          I don't know what should be done? Nationwide, how many folks can we either keep supporting, or allow to go homeless and hungry?

          I think at the very least we should encourage through legislation the rebuilding of factories to supply our consumer goods and JOBS!

          We can't keep raising taxes to house and feed the unemployed, the jobs are not there for those who want to work in my opinion. Maybe we could beg for aide and build tent cities for the millions soon to be homeless? Possibly get some foreign aide like haiti right here at home? Folks, there is a big problem here and I don't think it's all to blame on lazy folks living beyond their means. I do think about protecting what little I have in the event of a all out breakdown in civil obedience. How many folks can I kill if it comes to that?

          Where is the plan for real jobs? Tax cuts will not create millions of jobs to make up for the millions that are gone.
          If I'm correct, doesn't unemployment last for 99 weeks before it needs to be extended? How much longer do these people need to find the "perfect" job before they get off of unemployment? Fact is..people are lazy and people do live beyond their means. But that's not the sole reason why hard times are here.

          I'm renting until after I get married, and I pay $1,200 a month, and it includes absolutely nothing. Rents in my area average between $1,000 - $1,800 a month. But I also could easily find something cheaper to live in if I had too, and that's another problem right there. If I couldn't afford something because I lost my job...common sense says you downsize and go cheaper.

          I agree with you we absolutely need tax cuts for everyone. I agree with you that we needs job growth, but that shouldn't come from the government.

          Taxpayer funded jobs from the government can create an economic mess with bailouts which can cripple the economy.

          Big business isn't making a move right now because of no decision on the Bush tax cuts, and Obama care. Personally, Obama's policies are all wrong for economic growth. Those factory jobs that you speak of been going overseas for a long time now, and we have to bring them back. What do we manufacture in this country now?

          I just went to my local newspaper online, and looked at job opportunities for the area that newspaper covers. 3418 jobs are to be had for those in my area that are collecting unemployment, and are qualified for these jobs. The government doesn't "owe" anyone a job or to have 1 handed to them of their liking. But we are always going to have some type of unemployment in this country, but right now that number is far too high.

          But I do believe people "deserve" opportunities to be able to go out and get these jobs that are there and created.

          I would get the most successful business owners in the country (big and small business), to pick their brain about how to move country forward on the job front.
          Last edited by Flux; 11-12-2010, 10:13 PM. Reason: to add more

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Hard Times?

            Originally posted by Flux View Post
            Out of those 200,000 how many do you think could actually go out and get a lowering paying job, but don't because they feel it's beneath them? How many of that 200,000 are living beyond their means?

            My father always taught me...in the Plumbing trade, you work for your slow time, so you can bank away money.

            I feel as though most people are too lazy to work 2 and 3 jobs to make ends meet.

            I would do whatever it took to make ends meet...even if it meant me doing menial jobs.

            I think the thought of violence has been brewing for awhile in this country. It's something I never want to see..but I've been preparing myself over the last 4 years for it.
            Alot. I've seen & know some of them. Meanwhile, Hispanics are laying brick, insulating, painting etc. etc. etc. Get my point?


            J.C.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Hard Times?

              Originally posted by Flux View Post
              If I'm correct, doesn't unemployment last for 99 weeks before it needs to be extended? How much longer do these people need to find the "perfect" job before they get off of unemployment? Fact is..people are lazy and people do live beyond their means. But that's not the sole reason why hard times are here.

              I'm renting until after I get married, and I pay $1,200 a month, and it includes absolutely nothing. Rents in my area average between $1,000 - $1,800 a month. But I also could easily find something cheaper to live in if I had too, and that's another problem right there. If I couldn't afford something because I lost my job...common sense says you downsize and go cheaper.

              I agree with you we absolutely need tax cuts for everyone. I agree with you that we needs job growth, but that shouldn't come from the government.

              Taxpayer funded jobs from the government can create an economic mess with bailouts which can cripple the economy.

              Big business isn't making a move right now because of no decision on the Bush tax cuts, and Obama care. Personally, Obama's policies are all wrong for economic growth. Those factory jobs that you speak of been going overseas for a long time now, and we have to bring them back. What do we manufacture in this country now?

              I just went to my local newspaper online, and looked at job opportunities for the area that newspaper covers. 3418 jobs are to be had for those in my area that are collecting unemployment, and are qualified for these jobs. The government doesn't "owe" anyone a job or to have 1 handed to them of their liking. But we are always going to have some type of unemployment in this country, but right now that number is far too high.

              But I do believe people "deserve" opportunities to be able to go out and get these jobs that are there and created.
              Flux, if the jobs are not there it doesn't matter if one month or two years pass. I don't agree that big business is waiting for word on tax cuts or obamacare. Big business is gone, moved to mexico, communist china, india and the rest of the world where labor is dirt cheap, there is no EPA and OSHA and authorities can be bought off if need be. I agree that government funded jobs are not the answer and part of the problem. Big business has got to be persuaded by a firm hand to build factories, bring back the tech and support jobs. We have a snow ball effect happening as more and more folks get laid off and the jobs just are not there, less money is available to be spent in other industries. I don't expect our government to employ Americans, but I do expect our legislators to stop acting like this is some passing phase. they need to get down to business and fix the problems. Secure our borders, deal with the trade deficit and stop making communist china rich off American dollars. Bring back the real jobs that employed real Americans, the rest of it (green jobs) seems to be a lot of talk and no action.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Hard Times?

                Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                Alot. I've seen & know some of them. Meanwhile, Hispanics are laying brick, insulating, painting etc. etc. etc. Get my point?


                J.C.
                If you are talking about illegals who are working the trades, they are working because they will work cheap, not necessarily harder. You can work cheap if you don't pay taxes, don't support a family here, and share a living space with a dozen other illegals. Was that your point? Among the hundreds of thousands of NY'rs out of work are many women who worked office jobs now gone abroad, what would you have them do? Please answer as if they were your wife, sister, daughter or mother.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Hard Times?

                  Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                  If you are talking about illegals who are working the trades, they are working because they will work cheap, not necessarily harder. You can work cheap if you don't pay taxes, don't support a family here, and share a living space with a dozen other illegals. Was that your point? Among the hundreds of thousands of NY'rs out of work are many women who worked office jobs now gone abroad, what would you have them do? Please answer as if they were your wife, sister, daughter or mother.
                  I honestly haven't read all that is said here so far. But I will say that the majority of the U.S. can't even conceive of what "Hard Times" are.

                  You have consistently stated how the manufacturing foundation of the U.S. has been disregarded at our own peril. I agree.

                  I was agreeing with Flux in regards that many unemployed people will not do the occupations that I see legal and illegal labor will do. Sometimes regardless of wage.

                  Testament to the societal trend and conditioning. Not good either.


                  J.C.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Hard Times?

                    Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                    Among the hundreds of thousands of NY'rs out of work are many women who worked office jobs now gone abroad, what would you have them do? Please answer as if they were your wife, sister, daughter or mother.
                    Being a woman should have no bearing on common sense values/decisions. Nobody in their right mind wants to lose their home or job, but I have no sympathy for those who have no desire to go out and find work, instead of waiting to see what the government is going to do.

                    J.C. is right...people under 40 have no idea what hard times are in this country. "Entitlements" seems to be the popular word in this country.

                    That's the problem in America, we are too dependent on the government. Some people in this country want to live that life of government interfering in their lives..this is the result of those wishes.

                    Regardless of what was done before Obama, he had a super majority at one time to pass anything he wanted to pass, and stop some of this mess. Think about all the money that was spent..and what it was spent on. Think about the bills that were passed..and you can ask yourself.. was this the hope and change that America needed?

                    Some of you people think term limits is ridiculous...but so is what's going on with this country and economy. A lot of the same players are still there in congress (both sides) playing the exact same games for over 30 years.

                    So we as a country deserve what is happening to us right now for not making the correct decisions in the past/present.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Hard Times?

                      Originally posted by Flux View Post
                      Being a woman should have no bearing on common sense values/decisions. Nobody in their right mind wants to lose their home or job, but I have no sympathy for those who have no desire to go out and find work, instead of waiting to see what the government is going to do.

                      J.C. is right...people under 40 have no idea what hard times are in this country. "Entitlements" seems to be the popular word in this country.

                      That's the problem in America, we are too dependent on the government. Some people in this country want to live that life of government interfering in their lives..this is the result of those wishes.

                      Regardless of what was done before Obama, he had a super majority at one time to pass anything he wanted to pass, and stop some of this mess. Think about all the money that was spent..and what it was spent on. Think about the bills that were passed..and you can ask yourself.. was this the hope and change that America needed?

                      Some of you people think term limits is ridiculous...but so is what's going on with this country and economy. A lot of the same players are still there in congress (both sides) playing the exact same games for over 30 years.

                      So we as a country deserve what is happening to us right now for not making the correct decisions in the past/present.
                      Oh horse crap, those of you that of working age in the 70's had nothing less than the entire country HANDED to you all on a silver platter, and left MY generation with nothing but scraps and government handouts. And then you all turn around and chastize us for relying on welfare to get us through. You people had cheap gasoline, affordable college expenses, reasonable health insurance rates, double digit interest rates on savings and Certificates of Deposits. Not to mention the shear absense of "Big Box" stores driving out start-up stores led by anyone that wanted to be his own boss. A man in that time only had to work a full ten minutes for afford a loaf of bread at the Federal minimum wage at the time. Today, a man has to work THIRTY minutes for the SAME load of bread at today's minumum wage! Don't take my word for it, do the math yourself when bread goes for $3.59!

                      Every single benefit YOU people enjoyed all of a sudden becomes an "entitlement" when we ask for the same priviledge our grandparents handed down to you? Class, real class. And you people wonder why we are forced to cheat, lie and steal to get ahead. Just remind yourselves one thing, it was you people that voted for a "B Movie" actor to play the role as some corporate puppet that robbed this country of a pension fund managed by the government, which in turn built these "big box" corporations, and demands those they robbed from to continue to pour their workers money into the same company that robbed them in the form of 401(k) used to purchase the company's stock! Forcing everyone to depend on the heartless, souless whims of the stock market to determine wether or not a man can even afford to retire when he is too old to work!

                      Entitlement my buttocks! You people had it easy.
                      Last edited by tailgunner; 11-13-2010, 02:29 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Hard Times?

                        I think that, as with most things, it is dangerous to generalize about the unemployed. Sure, there are bound to be those that enjoying being on the dole. There are also 55 year old people that worked up the ladder for 30 years and were earning 6 figure incomes. They lost their jobs and aren't qualified to do much else. I know a few in that boat. One took a near min wage job because he couldn't afford to pay for his family's heath care insurance. Thanks to the housing collapse, he owes more on his house than it's worth - and it's not all that austentations of a house (CA... a lot of money doesn't get much here). Since it's underwater, he would have to pay money to sell it. His retirement accounts and other investments tanked in 2008. He's looking down the barrel of losing everything he as worked 30 years to earn.

                        My point is, it's easy to label people as lazy. We have lost 8 million jobs in this country. And we were far from having full employment when it started. You can't lose 8 million jobs and not have some serious impact to people... good people that have a good work ethic, that have busted hump for a long time and are facing financial ruin. It's definitely hard times, as Frank points out.

                        *******

                        There are 14.8M unemployed people in the US, according to voernment stats. Here in CA, the top unemployment rate is nearly $12 and hour. Of course not everyone gets that much. I don't know what the national average is, maybe $8 per hour? If it's $8, then a year of unemployment bennies costs the Government about $250B. This has been going on for two years now.

                        That's scary.

                        Add the cost of the war (over a trillion), the ineffective stimulus package (trillion), and the TARP (actual numbers not easy to find but it wasn't cheap - hundreds of billions?). What these all have in common is that none of them are boosting the economy or creating domestic jobs.

                        It would be cheaper to develop alternate energy and give the US energy independence. Not only would this put the terrorists in a financial world of hurt, it would also give US industry a significant advantage. And all the while creating jobs to support the new industry. I agree that the government should not be looked at as the savior, but there are some projects (defense, highway system, etc) that are of such a scale that private industry just can't address them. Alternate energy is one of these.

                        Instead, the geniuses in DC are apparently bound and determined to bankrupt us all with expenditures that result in nothing positive.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Hard Times?

                          Thanks Andy. Guys, I'm not going to attack President Bush or defend President Obama, The fact remains that there are too many Americans out of work and too few jobs. We have no one in government working to change this very dangerous situation, and I don't mean create millions of government jobs.

                          Illegals displaced a lot of good workers because they could work cheaper, you want to disregard that fact then we disagree. Our borders need to be secured and we need to employ legal Americans and pay them a living wage. I agree with Andy that there are a lot of folks who worked for years in the corporate world, those older guys and "women" are not going to work construction even if there was some magical job for all of them.. The thought of all those companies that up and left along with all the jobs outsourced to india and elsewhere bothers me, it leaves the USA with a giant void. There are no pyramids being built here that would employ millions of laborers, politics aside we need tens of millions of real jobs.

                          Words like lazy and entitlement don't mean a dam if the jobs don't exist, those millions of folks out of work were working not long ago. The republicans did nothing to stop the jobs loss when they were in power, and the democrats did the exact same thing. In my opinion all the democrats did was pass their agenda on healthcare while ignoring the jobs situation. Too much time has gone by with nothing being done about jobs, now a tidal wave of folks will suddenly be out of unemployment benefits. They will have no income. Something must be done, and calling them lazy is not an answer or excuse in my mind.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Hard Times?

                            Someone asked in a previous post how long does UE last;
                            If I'm correct, doesn't unemployment last for 99 weeks before it needs to be extended?
                            I'm sure its pretty much the same elsewhere, but here in NJ your State funded UE (unemployment) is 26 weeks and you are done. After that you are on extended benefits which come from Uncle Sam which extends you for another 26 weeks. Normally after that you are on your own, at least before the GR (great recession) thats how it worked.
                            "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
                            John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Hard Times?

                              Originally posted by tailgunner View Post
                              Oh horse crap, those of you that of working age in the 70's had nothing less than the entire country HANDED to you all on a silver platter, and left MY generation with nothing but scraps and government handouts. And then you all turn around and chastize us for relying on welfare to get us through. You people had cheap gasoline, affordable college expenses, reasonable health insurance rates, double digit interest rates on savings and Certificates of Deposits. Not to mention the shear absense of "Big Box" stores driving out start-up stores led by anyone that wanted to be his own boss. A man in that time only had to work a full ten minutes for afford a loaf of bread at the Federal minimum wage at the time. Today, a man has to work THIRTY minutes for the SAME load of bread at today's minumum wage! Don't take my word for it, do the math yourself when bread goes for $3.59!

                              Every single benefit YOU people enjoyed all of a sudden becomes an "entitlement" when we ask for the same priviledge our grandparents handed down to you? Class, real class. And you people wonder why we are forced to cheat, lie and steal to get ahead. Just remind yourselves one thing, it was you people that voted for a "B Movie" actor to play the role as some corporate puppet that robbed this country of a pension fund managed by the government, which in turn built these "big box" corporations, and demands those they robbed from to continue to pour their workers money into the same company that robbed them in the form of 401(k) used to purchase the company's stock! Forcing everyone to depend on the heartless, souless whims of the stock market to determine wether or not a man can even afford to retire when he is too old to work!

                              Entitlement my buttocks! You people had it easy.
                              I like how you write,it fits perfect to the change happening.

                              The lying and cheating is the same only more obvious because it is not being done behind each others backs like the corperate parents used to do.Now bold face lies are done eye to eye.Check out what americans use as an example on how we should interact.I watched five minutes of that show "Big Brother".Acquire your percieved needs through manipulation and deception,f**k everyone else.

                              I see a change though.The younger generation is realizing they are going to have to work harder if they want to survive.Their parent's hispanic pampered lifestyle(my gen) is rapidly on it's way reap it's reward.

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