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  • Global Warming Debate

    My local newspaper keeps printing opposing views to global warming. Today, an opinon piece ranted on about how republicans refuse to accept the scientific evidence. The writer offered no solutions, just insults. This was my response, hope they find it fit to print. Frank B.

    To The Editor,

    A recent "Opinion" piece on global warming by Gordon Tully, raised some good points but in my opinion missed the mark. I accept the theory of global warming, but unlike Mr. Tully I believe there are far greater threats to "the bedrock American ideal of individual liberty". The discussion of global warming even among those who agree it exists, should revolve around economics not politics. We cannot successfully implement an agenda of reducing global warming while global players such as India and communist China continue to pollute and grow stronger on our consumer dollars. Consider the terms "immediate", and "long term" applied to both our economy and global warming. Over the last forty to fifty years the USA has lost millions of manufacturing jobs to countries that have no E.P.A. to monitor and protect their environment and residents. The immediate harm to our economy and the long term effect on our planet's health are dependent on how we resolve this situation. I have given a great deal of thought to both global warming and our economy. I believe it is in the best interest of our economy and global warming to invest in businesses that will manufacture the products that we consume, right here in the USA. Stop funding corporations that create jobs in other countries and pollute. We can reinvent America to be strong and less dependent on global polluters, or we can keep arguing among ourselves as we grow weaker. I think the polar bears stand a better chance of long term survival with a strong America than a strong, polluted communist China. I would ask those skeptical of my opinions if we are at greater risk of extinction from long term global warming, or our global partners?

  • #2
    Re: Global Warming Debate

    I think it's more about redistribution of wealth then the environment. I think global warming is a farce.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Global Warming Debate

      People refuse to understand what the temperatures were back 50 years ago... that would make the temperatures today a walk in the park.


      I need scorchers of hot summers from here on out.
      Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Global Warming Debate

        I happen to believe it makes sense that man's pollution can or will eventually harm the planet. My complaint with folks who believe in the global warming theory is their appraoch to fix it! They are all for taking measures to reduce any harmful output from the USA, but refuse to see how pointless that would be given the pollution generated by communist china, india and other big global polluters. They would put us at a further economic loss by paying penalties for energy use and more government deterents towards manufacturing. Now is the time to encourage manufacturing in the USA, and I would gladly see some of my tax money go towards that than bailouts for businesses that employ people in foreign lands, and unemployment for American workers who need jobs. How can folks who believe in global warming think it is more of an urgent problem or priority over jobs and breaking our dependence on communist china?

        Sorry, but I still can't believe our government borrows from a communist government and we as consumers make it richer! What are we waiting for, why are our legislators not working on an immediate plan to ramp up manufacturing and real jobs? When President Obama talks about green jobs, it's a lie. Where are all those toxic green grocery bags made?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Global Warming Debate

          Yea it just seems like a way for uncle Sam to take more money out of the economy and redistribute to where they want hey it works for other countries why not start are own scam. It sure works as a revenue generator for some . The EPA is a waste of money that should be the states job . I feel the Fed is way too big and too much off scope from there purpose originaly designed by the founders.

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          • #6
            Re: Global Warming Debate

            Global warming is crap carp crap ccccrrrraaappp just look when a volcano blows it makes human CO outputs insignifant.

            Tony

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            • #7
              Re: Global Warming Debate

              Originally posted by AFM View Post
              Global warming is crap carp crap ccccrrrraaappp just look when a volcano blows it makes human CO outputs insignifant.

              Tony
              And now they are claiming that the temperature rise has caused CO2 and Methane emissions in the Arctic permafrost in Russia and elsewhere to increase dramatically. So much so that the output dwarfs that from man made sources.

              Related article from CNN and Time

              I agree with Frank. The increased regulation here and in other developed countries is what has driven jobs and control of emissions out of the US and other industrialized nations and into those countries where they can't even spell EPA or OSHA. So in effect we have caused our own demise to an extent by pushing for these regulations. Somehow we need to have our cake (clean air) and eat it too (have a job).

              No the same work is done for less in countries where they don't care about tomorrow and how they are impacting their own let alone everyone else's future.

              Its war but no one wants to admit it. There is no more need for guns and bombs, its all dollars and resources and who controls them (as it always has been) but now its all done more passively with computers and tax incentives.
              Last edited by Bob D.; 11-29-2010, 11:16 AM.
              "It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?" Bob D. 2006

              https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerToolInstitute

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Global Warming Debate

                Personally I have my doubts about global warming. But I also understand that I am not involved in the research and don't have any expertise in the physics of climate.

                On the other hand, with some but relatively few exceptions, the scientific community seems to agree that it is a real effect and a real problem. This consensus doesn't make it so... the "experts" on many subjects have been wrong plenty of times in the past. Nevertheless, and even considering my own doubts, it seems utterly foolish to dismiss those opinions and findings based on those of a "few" dissenting experts and a legion of those that have no particular expertise in the topic... other than they have an economic interest and don't like the cost of compliance.

                But... it's absolutely true that some countries, notably China, are doing little or nothing to behave in an (overall) environmentally responsible way and as a result have a huge economic competitive advantage. Does this mean that the US should scrap its concerns?

                I don't think so. Even if human-caused global warming is an incorrect notion, prudent measures to reduce carbon emissions are useful. As a nation few would suggest that we don't need to get off of imported oil. Not all the potential energy solutions are low-carbon, but some are. In the end, it will help our competitiveness, not hinder it. In the, US business generally looks at the short term. It's important IMO that we take the longer view.

                But none of that helps to level the economic playing field in the here and now. One way to help that is to impose a stiff import duty tax on any products that are manufactured in factories that do not or would not comply with US environmental standards. You could also extend this to include safety, child labor and even minimum wage standards.

                Along the same line, we can and should hit all imports with a tax to replace the social security, medicare, and income tax funds that are lost due to those manufacturing jobs going offshore.

                Yup, all the imported stuff will double in cost. But you WILL see US companies scrambling to rebuild American industry. Which means JOBS, and hence economic growth. Personally, I will gladly accept higher prices on mostly unnecessary imported gadgets if it can result in putting this great nation back on track. I already have no problem paying 2-3 times the money for USA stuff when I can. And yes, this means I buy Ridgid pipe wrenches but NO MORE do I buy Ridgid electric tools. In fact I buy used USA rather than new. It's better stuff, anyway.

                In the US, we have been the defenders of free global trade. Unfortunately, the result is not trade -- it is hugely lopsided against US exports. Yet study after study shows that American workers are among the most highly educated and most productive in the world. If the playing field was level, we in the US will be able to compete very nicely.

                Significant import restrictions have no support in Washington or in industry, and are dismissed out of hand. IMO, this is because there's a lot of money being made on the status quo. The money is being made by a relatively few at the top of the money pyramid. Hence, we see the ever-widening gap between those that control the money, who increasingly control more and more of the wealth in the United States, and the middle class, who has slipped so far that they are really now "upper-lower" class economically.

                I think it's time to ask whose interests we are protecting by allowing unrestricted access to our consumer market. I bet there are 15 million unemployed, plus 5-10M more underemployed or off-the-benefit-roles, that might agree with this.
                Last edited by Andy_M; 11-29-2010, 05:13 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Global Warming Debate

                  Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
                  And now they are claiming that the temperature rise has caused CO2 and Methane emissions in the Arctic permafrost in Russia and elsewhere to increase dramatically. So much so that the output dwarfs that from man made sources.

                  Related article from CNN and Time

                  I agree with Frank. The increased regulation here and in other developed countries is what has driven jobs and control of emissions out of the US and other industrialized nations and into those countries where they can't even spell EPA or OSHA. So in effect we have caused our own demise to an extent by pushing for these regulations. Somehow we need to have our cake (clean air) and eat it too (have a job).

                  No the same work is done for less in countries where they don't care about tomorrow and how they are impacting their own let alone everyone else's future.

                  Its war but no one wants to admit it. There is no more need for guns and bombs, its all dollars and resources and who controls them (as it always has been) but now its all done more passively with computers and tax incentives.
                  Bob, do you think regulations and EPA requirements could be eased so that manufacturing could be less preventative here? There has to be some sort of compromise to encourage profitable production without destroying the environment. Could some parts of the country be deemed strictly industrial and allowed less strict governmental oversight, if not indefinately perhaps for ten or twenty years? Can our economy be saved or did we seal our fate?

                  I keep asking the questions whenever the conversation involves our economy, " If we don't produce most of what we consume, isn't it a matter of time until our economy collapses?", and when folks say things will turn around I ask "How, by what mechanism will we create millions of real jobs not paid for by taxes?".

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Global Warming Debate

                    Pollution knows no borders. You can't legislate toxins to stay in NJ or FL or to recognize any other man made border.

                    I like low prices as much as the next guy but I like having air to breathe, water to drink, and to have a job too. I want it all I guess.

                    Maybe we need a duty on goods produced in countries that don't regulate their pollution. If you bring it into the USA and it was manufactured where they don't control pollution and toxic emissions then there would be a duty on the goods. The money would go to clean up our messes around the globe such as the Trash Island that floats out in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.

                    This would help bring the price of those goods produced and imported from unregulated countries more in line with goods produced here. Domestic goods would then be more competitive and gain market share which equals more domestic jobs and an improved economy. Not the total solution I know but it would help.
                    "It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?" Bob D. 2006

                    https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerToolInstitute

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Global Warming Debate

                      When people like Al Gore come out screaming from the mountain tops about Global Warming, other scientists and experts come right out behind him and shoot these ridiculous claims down.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Global Warming Debate

                        I burn cardboard/paper products constantly, year round.


                        I have to. Too much coming onto the property and makes the garbage maintenance horrible.


                        So I burn it, everything. Tires on special occaisions. Brings a tear to my eye.
                        Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Global Warming Debate

                          There is no longer any debate that global warming is real.

                          The debate has now shifted to whether the cause is man-made or natural.

                          The melting of Larson-A, Larson-B, Glaciers, and world oceanic temperature increases are are a solid fact, global temperatures have been increasing rapidly for more than 50 years.

                          A valid point that many who debunk global warming make is that once atmospheric CO levels reach a specific saturation, CO can no longer increase the level of greenhouse effect, this is true, and we are near that level of saturation.

                          Two things this argument does not address.

                          1, Despite the fact that this level of CO can no longer enhance the greenhouse effect, a larger amount of CO can lengthen the amount of time it takes for natural absorption, which lengthens the time the warming remains.

                          2, the scary one...

                          The Permian-Triassic extinction, the most thorough and abrupt extinction in Earths history, was caused by an abrupt release of oceanic Methane-hydrate deposits when a natural event triggered an increase of global temperatures by only a few degree's.

                          There's a dense layer of C-12 at this level in the Earth, C-12 is a byproduct of methane, with no fossils or evidence of more than microbial life, nothing but single celled organisms survived this period.

                          Methane is 400 times more potent a greenhouse gas than CO, our oceans floors are once again replete with methane hydrate from hundreds of millions of years of deposits and organic decay.

                          As our glaciers and ice caps melt, the oceans salinity levels decrease, which then affects the thermohaline conveyors' natural cooling affect and causes portions of the oceans floors that may have been cool for hundreds of millions of years to become warm once again, releasing dormant pockets of frozen methane hydrate. (the same stuff that caused the BP disaster, it expands violently when warmed)

                          After a small percentage of methane begins to melt and resurface, it triggers more warming and more subsequent methane releases, this chain of events happens very rapidly, as evidenced by suddenness of the Permian-Triassic extinction.

                          It would seem a ridiculously far fetched idea, but for the fact that it happened before.
                          Last edited by DuckButter; 11-29-2010, 10:05 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Global Warming Debate

                            You went so far over my head I got crosseyed.

                            Looks like BP will have to save the world by figuring out a way to tap & sell that methane.

                            And we can all b!tch about the price.


                            J.C.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Global Warming Debate

                              Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                              You went so far over my head I got crosseyed.

                              Looks like BP will have to save the world by figuring out a way to tap & sell that methane.

                              And we can all b!tch about the price.


                              J.C.
                              Actually, that's a good argument for switching to NG as a bridge fuel, converting methane to CO would make it 400 times less potent as a greenhouse gas and we'd be keeping the money here at home instead of funneling funds into Al Qeada

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