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  • #16
    Re: Are Gasoline Prices Rising By You?

    Frank, at risk of aiding and abetting thread drift, that's the reason I quoted Teddy, a Republican icon.

    Though complicated, it's related to gas prices.

    By todays standards, Teddy was a hardcore Liberal that whined about wealth inequality and fought for unions, he was the president that introduced the progressive tax on higher income earners, yet I've heard his name continually used by those who think the status quo tax rates are fine.

    I've heard so many conveniently fragmented & distorted quotes and citations of economic theory and historic reference made over the last two years by politicians and media talking heads that it's become just about completely obvious, history has no lessons for those in our government to draw from, they're idiots, corporate puppets working for the biggest bribe.

    This relates to gas prices in the way QE2 is being used to hide the underlying problems directly resulting in this lack of ability to do something about depleted tax revenues and economic imbalance.

    I seriously think maybe we should consider requiring anyone running for office to at least take an aptitude test in economics, political science, history, Constitutional law and for good measure, basic math.

    I just listened to Paul Ryan cite Milton Friedmans "permanent income hypothesis" as rationale for retaining upper class tax rates.

    This theory goes almost completely contrary to what Paul Ryan was saying, who seems to be throwing out "smart sounding" theories while having little idea what he's talking about.

    The theory specifically cites that lower income earners consume (spend) a much greater proportion of their income than higher income earners, where Milton then suggest what he called a "negative income tax" for the lowest wage earners, a government subsidy for the poorest to balance consumption.

    Hence, while these knuckleheads on BOTH sides grab at straws and vague conceptions of economic theory to best suit their own agenda and campaign donors, we have higher gas prices as the Fed builds yet another bubble in an attempt to keep interest rates down to prevent an America default.

    Worst of all, rates are soaring anyway, we're going to be cornered very soon if that continues.
    Last edited by DuckButter; 12-08-2010, 08:57 PM.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Are Gasoline Prices Rising By You?

      Dont worry Obama will give us gas stamps.. Oh yeah thats just for people that dont work

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Are Gasoline Prices Rising By You?

        Originally posted by DELCASE View Post
        Dont worry Obama will give us gas stamps.. Oh yeah thats just for people that dont work
        Well then, stop working, problem solved!

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Are Gasoline Prices Rising By You?

          Originally posted by DELCASE View Post
          Dont worry Obama will give us gas stamps.. Oh yeah thats just for people that dont work

          You can search this forum under the topic "Obama", and see from two years ago I did not vote for him.

          In fact, I repeatedly voiced my concern that his lack of experience was going to be a problem with the disaster he was walking into, and I was right, but after the fact I'm not so sure how much better McCain could have done.

          For this reason I agree with Andy above who says Obama spent the stimulus in the wrong ways.

          That said, the problem we have is not Obama's doing, just because his equally misguided opponents are saying things like "socialism" doesn't make them right, in fact they're even more wrong for catering to corporate donors instead of the people.

          I refer again to Teddy Roosevelt.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Are Gasoline Prices Rising By You?

            Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
            Here we go again, liberals and conservatives playing the blame game. In my opinion I think they should have let tax cuts for the middle class and rich expire! We can't afford the loss of tax income and we can't afford to borrow more from communist china to pay for our wars.
            I have a better idea...why don't we cut a lot of the social programs and wasteful spending thats bankrupting this country instead. No where in the constitution does it say that we should "punish" people for being successful in this country. They are already in the highest tax bracket there is, and you want to take more money from them.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Are Gasoline Prices Rising By You?

              Gas is up here too we just hit $3.00
              We need an SSI shake down too. I know people who are on it and I see them out working painting homes etc. When they claim to be hurt Hell I know a family the whole dam family that claims anger issuse and the get SSI. Give me a break Yes their on EBT cards also
              Rod
              MT. Washington Sewer & Drain Cleaning
              Serving Berlin, NH and North Conway, NH areas
              http://unclognh.com
              http://mtwashingtonseweranddrainclea...m/default.aspx

              Charging less does not mean more call volume it just means you have to work harder to reach your goals.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Are Gasoline Prices Rising By You?

                Originally posted by DuckButter View Post



                That said, the problem we have is not Obama's doing, just because his equally misguided opponents are saying things like "socialism" doesn't make them right, in fact they're even more wrong for catering to corporate donors instead of the people.

                I refer again to Teddy Roosevelt.
                Do you even know what socialism is? When the President of the free world calls the constitution of the United states "deeply flawed" is a person who is a threat to freedom. There is no freedom in socialism, when you're controlled.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Are Gasoline Prices Rising By You?

                  Originally posted by Flux View Post
                  I have a better idea...why don't we cut a lot of the social programs and wasteful spending thats bankrupting this country instead. No where in the constitution does it say that we should "punish" people for being successful in this country. They are already in the highest tax bracket there is, and you want to take more money from them.
                  "Fascism should more appropriately be called
                  Corporatism because it is a merger of state
                  and corporate power." - Benito Musollini

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Are Gasoline Prices Rising By You?

                    Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                    "Fascism should more appropriately be called
                    Corporatism because it is a merger of state
                    and corporate power." - Benito Musollini

                    Why in the world would you quote a fascist who believed in committing violence and waging war, in order to keep a nation strong?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Are Gasoline Prices Rising By You?

                      Originally posted by Flux View Post
                      Do you even know what socialism is? When the President of the free world calls the constitution of the United states "deeply flawed" is a person who is a threat to freedom. There is no freedom in socialism, when you're controlled.

                      When you see a red light, that's a form of socialism, the government, in the interest of the majority, has deemed it necessary to tell you when to stop and let someone else go.

                      Plumbing code, you guessed it, socialism...the government in the interest of the people, feels we need to go to school and learn how to "protect the health of the public".

                      I understand how media pundits have been drumming "socialism" into viewers heads with fearful warnings of a government takeover because the 7 figure salaried Glen Beck and his magical chalkboard doesn't want to pay more taxes, but the fact is that "socialism" is a component of any form of government that serves to protect and serve the majority.

                      For reference, Democracy is largely comprised of socialism, think of that whenever you see a stop sign, speed limit or traffic light.

                      There are extremes in socialism, like Communism, where it gets as far as telling you when to go home, what to wear, and what reilgion you can adhere to, that's why we have a Constitution, which ironically allows Congress to tax as necessary to protect our Democracy.

                      If you dislike any socialism at all, there are small countries in the Congo basin that have relatively no form of government, effectively no "socialism".

                      I don't want to confuse you, but the difference between Democracy and Dictatorship or Monarchy is socialism.

                      It was the subject of the original Tea Party, they actually wanted a form of socialism called "Democracy" where the majority had the power to rule instead of King George III.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Are Gasoline Prices Rising By You?

                        Originally posted by DuckButter View Post

                        When you see a red light, that's a form of socialism, the government, in the interest of the majority, has deemed it necessary to tell you when to stop and let someone else go.

                        Plumbing code, you guessed it, socialism...the government in the interest of the people, feels we need to go to school and learn how to "protect the health of the public".

                        I understand how media pundits have been drumming "socialism" into viewers heads with fearful warnings of a government takeover because the 7 figure salaried Glen Beck and his magical chalkboard doesn't want to pay more taxes, but the fact is that "socialism" is a component of any form of government that serves to protect and serve the majority.

                        For reference, Democracy is largely comprised of socialism, think of that whenever you see a stop sign, speed limit or traffic light.

                        There are extremes in socialism, like Communism, where it gets as far as telling you when to go home, what to wear, and what reilgion you can adhere to, that's why we have a Constitution, which ironically allows Congress to tax as necessary to protect our Democracy.

                        If you dislike any socialism at all, there are small countries in the Congo basin that have relatively no form of government, effectively no "socialism".

                        I don't want to confuse you, but the difference between Democracy and Dictatorship or Monarchy is socialism.

                        It was the subject of the original Tea Party, they actually wanted a form of socialism called "Democracy" where the majority had the power to rule instead of King George III.
                        Wow!!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Are Gasoline Prices Rising By You?

                          Originally posted by Flux View Post
                          I have a better idea...why don't we cut a lot of the social programs and wasteful spending thats bankrupting this country instead. No where in the constitution does it say that we should "punish" people for being successful in this country. They are already in the highest tax bracket there is, and you want to take more money from them.
                          Cutting social programs is not a better idea in my opinion, it is just part of what must be done. You can't get those who pay nothing to contribute and while it's appears to be a punishment to have the "successful" make up the difference, that is exactly what must be done. I'm not leaving out the middle class in all this, they must abandone the idea of lower taxes until the govenment pays down the debt and stops incurring more! I am amazed by folks who think our government can wage war, borrow money from a communist government and then fix our economy by reducing the only source of income the govenment has. I seriously doubt the wealthy will create jobs here with the money they are saving in taxes. They will continue to invest where there money will make more money, outside the USA, and you can't blame them.

                          You want to give the rich a break on taxes, the middle class a break on taxes just like the poor who pay no taxes? The way you do that is stop spending. Cut all the government programs and stop waging wars you can't fund. Get someone in washington who understands economics and figure out how to employ the millions who are out of work because the clock is ticking.

                          The two million on unemployment are not going to just disappear because you think they are lazy. They will be there in greater numbers when this money runs out and without jobs or tax revenue both the government and populace are in trouble.

                          The constitution doesn't say a lot of things but I'm sure our founding fathers did not anticipate a time when we would be supporting efforts to strengthen a communist government, print worthless money and sit around like a bunch of whining babies instead of fixing the problems that got us in this mess.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Are Gasoline Prices Rising By You?

                            Originally posted by Flux View Post
                            Why in the world would you quote a fascist who believed in committing violence and waging war, in order to keep a nation strong?
                            Are we talking about Bush/Cheney, or Musollinni?

                            I posted that because Fascism is the extreme right form of right wing government, the complete opposite to the far left of Communism.

                            Democracy falls in between, an actual form of socialism.

                            As long as we adhere to the Constitution and not allow control over our government to go outside that of the people while still allowing a level of freedom that doesn't hurt others.

                            Example,
                            if a single person became so rich that they owned almost everything in America, he would not be allowed to control our laws or our freedoms, at least not according to the Constitution...not even Rupert Murdoch is allowed to run America, in theory.

                            Their is a limit to how much "reward" an individual is allowed to take in return for success, the "reward" stops when it reaches such an extent as to cause harm to others.

                            An example, if our jobs were being sent to China so that a CEO can profit from cheaper labor, if Americans are going hungry or losing their homes as a result, the Constitution allows our Congress to step in and protect our "welfare and posterity" as it's worded..

                            That would be a form of socialism, a large scale version of a "stop sign" that's there to protect the whole.

                            Again, Teddy Roosevelt, Republican icon.
                            Last edited by DuckButter; 12-08-2010, 10:26 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Are Gasoline Prices Rising By You?

                              Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                              Cutting social programs is not a better idea in my opinion, it is just part of what must be done. You can't get those who pay nothing to contribute and while it's appears to be a punishment to have the "successful" make up the difference, that is exactly what must be done. I'm not leaving out the middle class in all this, they must abandone the idea of lower taxes until the govenment pays down the debt and stops incurring more! I am amazed by folks who think our government can wage war, borrow money from a communist government and then fix our economy by reducing the only source of income the govenment has. I seriously doubt the wealthy will create jobs here with the money they are saving in taxes. They will continue to invest where there money will make more money, outside the USA, and you can't blame them.

                              You want to give the rich a break on taxes, the middle class a break on taxes just like the poor who pay no taxes? The way you do that is stop spending. Cut all the government programs and stop waging wars you can't fund. Get someone in washington who understands economics and figure out how to employ the millions who are out of work because the clock is ticking.

                              The two million on unemployment are not going to just disappear because you think they are lazy. They will be there in greater numbers when this money runs out and without jobs or tax revenue both the government and populace are in trouble.

                              The constitution doesn't say a lot of things but I'm sure our founding fathers did not anticipate a time when we would be supporting efforts to strengthen a communist government, print worthless money and sit around like a bunch of whining babies instead of fixing the problems that got us in this mess.
                              Did you just use a Liberal/ Republican comparison that you just ripped a few posts ago?

                              Spreading the wealth isn't the answer. Stop sounding like a jilted lover.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Are Gasoline Prices Rising By You?

                                Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                                Are we talking about Bush/Cheney, or Musollinni?

                                I posted that because Fascism is the extreme right form of right wing government, the complete opposite to the far left of Communism.

                                Democracy falls in between, an actual form of socialism.

                                As long as we adhere to the Constitution and not allow control over our government to go outside that of the people while still allowing a level of freedom that doesn't hurt others.

                                Example,
                                if a single person became so rich that they owned almost everything in America, he would not be allowed to control our laws or our freedoms, at least not according to the Constitution...not even Rupert Murdoch is allowed to run America, in theory.

                                Their is a limit to how much "reward" an individual is allowed to take in return for success, the "reward" stops when it reaches such an extent as to cause harm to others.

                                An example, if our jobs were being sent to China so that a CEO can profit from cheaper labor, if Americans are going hungry or losing their homes as a result, the Constitution allows our Congress to step in and protect our "welfare and posterity" as it's worded..

                                That would be a form of socialism, a large scale version of a "stop sign" that's there to protect the whole.

                                Again, Teddy Roosevelt, Republican icon.
                                I would give you a common sense, factual rebuttal, but I'm thinking heavy meds would be better off for you.

                                Comment

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