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  • Stirring The Pot

    Here in CT our new govenor was recently sworn in and strangely enough the major news worthy topic is our weather. Yes, we have had two big snow storms and thankfully man won out over nature.

    I have had a couple letters printed in my local newspaper in which I asked our elected officials to "see beyond CT" and that "CT is not an island, but part of a country in trouble".

    There will always be stories that are of human interest and news worthy, but how long can we accept the inaction of our legislators regarding the economy and unemployment (jobs)?

    I ask all of you to consider writing to your newspapers if they have a section for "letters to the editor" in addition to your elected officials. We can't keep talking about the weather, and we can't keep talking about mentally ill killers or drugged up celebrities. We need the conversation to be focused on jobs, why they were allowed to leave by the millions and how to bring them back. In my opinion there will be no millions of new or green jobs any time soon, at least not here in the USA.

  • #2
    Re: Stirring The Pot

    Hey Franki, I forgotten you lived in CT. I marched in the Inaugeral Parade Jan 5th in my Air Force Blues with the Connecticut National Guard. Man, that was a very, very cold day to go marching around in. I didn't get a chance to watch the news at all, so I don't know how much of the parade was actually aired. Though, I do know I did have a camera in my face briefly while I was saluting during the nineteen gun salute in front of the armory in Hartford.
    Last edited by tailgunner; 01-13-2011, 09:31 PM.

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    • #3
      Re: Stirring The Pot

      Originally posted by tailgunner View Post
      Hey Franki, I forgotten you lived in CT. I marched in the Inaugeral Parade Jan 5th in my Air Force Blues with the Connecticut National Guard. Man, that was a very, very cold day to go marching around in. I didn't get a chance to watch the news at all, so I don't know how much of the parade was actually aired. Though, I do know I did have a camera in my face briefly while I was saluting during the nineteen gun salute in front of the armory in Hartford.
      Gunner, I live a few hours from Hartford. My wife had surgery the day before and she and I were both sick with head and chest colds to boot. The news coverage varies from town to town and while they may record hours of an event only a few minutes may make it to air. I'm willing to bet you were on tv somewhere that day. The only tv news I saw from the inaguration was Govenor Malloy making a speech in his white shirt and green tie while I sat in my doctor's waiting room. Thanks for braving the cold CT weather and representing the service.

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      • #4
        Re: Stirring The Pot

        Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
        Here in CT our new govenor was recently sworn in and strangely enough the major news worthy topic is our weather. Yes, we have had two big snow storms and thankfully man won out over nature.

        I have had a couple letters printed in my local newspaper in which I asked our elected officials to "see beyond CT" and that "CT is not an island, but part of a country in trouble".

        There will always be stories that are of human interest and news worthy, but how long can we accept the inaction of our legislators regarding the economy and unemployment (jobs)?

        I ask all of you to consider writing to your newspapers if they have a section for "letters to the editor" in addition to your elected officials. We can't keep talking about the weather, and we can't keep talking about mentally ill killers or drugged up celebrities. We need the conversation to be focused on jobs, why they were allowed to leave by the millions and how to bring them back. In my opinion there will be no millions of new or green jobs any time soon, at least not here in the USA.
        The power elite knows what they are doing. Weather, Sports shows, Beer. Then when you go to church they tell you you are a sheep that must follow. They tell you that in school as well. Historically the only thing that brings the kind of stirring you call for is disaster. People are lazy and ovine like. In order for them to get off their butts you have to light them on fire. Literally. The usa is not there yet. give it time. I remember the '60's when they gunned down jfk and rfk and mlk. We took to the streets. What did we get for it? Sarah Louise Palin.
        http://www.blackbookoftools.com
        http://www.gronim.com

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        • #5
          Re: Stirring The Pot

          Originally posted by dgronim View Post
          The power elite knows what they are doing. Weather, Sports shows, Beer. Then when you go to church they tell you you are a sheep that must follow. They tell you that in school as well. Historically the only thing that brings the kind of stirring you call for is disaster. People are lazy and ovine like. In order for them to get off their butts you have to light them on fire. Literally. The usa is not there yet. give it time. I remember the '60's when they gunned down jfk and rfk and mlk. We took to the streets. What did we get for it? Sarah Louise Palin.
          I read an article in my newspaper this morning about foreclosures and I think that's a disaster. Nationwide 1 in 45 household were foreclosed with Nevada toping the list with 1 out of 11 and florida with 1 out of 18. They said this year will be several times worse, how can that take place and not have disasterous effects?

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          • #6
            Re: Stirring The Pot

            Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
            I read an article in my newspaper this morning about foreclosures and I think that's a disaster. Nationwide 1 in 45 household were foreclosed with Nevada toping the list with 1 out of 11 and florida with 1 out of 18. They said this year will be several times worse, how can that take place and not have disasterous effects?
            I hope more foreclose....I plan on buying one with cash. There almost giving them away now...but I dont feel like the bottom has hit yet. There are people who are inheriting homes that they cant pay the tax on also....giving them away right now. I'm foaming at the mouth

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            • #7
              Re: Stirring The Pot

              The entire foreclosure picture is a huge manipulation.

              Sure some homeowners are being hurt. There are out-of-work Americans that played by the rules that are getting hammered. But most foreclosures are those that bought with very little down (0 to 3-1/2%) and low teaser rates on adjustable rate mortgages.

              For the very-little-down crowd, they have little to no equity in the property so they have nothing to lose.

              While the property is being foreclosed, they live in the house rent free for several months. Then they can go rent a comparable house or apt for cheap, which is all they should have really done in the first place if they only have 0 to 3-1/2%. I don't see that this is all that much of a disaster for them. Some are actually coming out ahead.

              Not meaning to sound heartless, but home ownership is not a right. You can have a perfectly fine lifestyle and build your wealth as a renter. We were convinced that it was the holy grail by the greedy financial community that makes a ton of money of each mortgage. They were practically forcing mortgages on people that had no business taking out loans, they were not looking for income verification and they threw income to debt ratio requirements to the wind. Then they made the loan, took the points and inflated closing costs, repackaged the loans into mortgage backed securities, and shipped them to Wall Street who sold them to other dumb*ss bankers around the world.

              Then the banks started selling refi loans. Dumb people started to use their homes as money to buy cars and vacations. The banks said, "You should do this! You will get your new car and you will be able to deduct the interest since it's a home loan! And your home is worth so much you can get that new Mercedes even though you only make $55k per year!"

              All the while, the Fed was an accomplice, artificially holding interest rates low... because they are a private bank controlled by other private banks. This generated a stupid rise in housing prices, since people buy, and have always bought houses based on monthly payments, not prices. The government was an accomplice because they are also dramatically stupid and didn't see, as usual, that when the bank steals from the population, tax revenue goes down, thus the deficit goes up. Why steal from the current population when you can also steal from the future population? It's kind of like indentured servitude, except that they used your money to buy your kids.... very clever, those bankers.

              The other thing the Government likes is currency inflation. When the money supply increases, the dollar HAS to devalue. Since we owe $13T and the international reserve currency is still the US Dollar, we then get to pay our debt service with money that is worth less than the money we borrowed. Which is one reason (there are others) why other countries are no longer standing in line to buy US debt. They know they will never make a profit or so much as break even, due to our monetary policy.

              In fact, that's the 800 pound gorilla in the room through all this mortgage nonsense: the Fed's low interest rates inflated the money supply. The money supply DOUBLED while all this was happening from 2000 to 2010. So the reality is that all the other prices paid by everyone go up. Oil, food, electric bills, healthcare costs, and even the cost of imported goods. So the whole mortgage scam really boils down to a transfer of wealth, not from those that took out the mortgages, but from the public at large... to the banks. As usual.

              All it took was a little instability created by job loss, due to the fact continued offshoring of manufacturing, to cause the housing market to soften and decline a bit. With no equity in the property due to the low down payments, it didn't take much of a decline before the loans were worth more than the home and people started to walk away from their houses. Then, the snowball effect took hold. The problem grew as housing prices in some areas fell more than others, the equity loss grew and started to affect people that didn't have these low-down payment loans. Right now housing is down on average, what, about 30-35%? So if your equity in your home was 30-35% you have lost your money (guess who found it) and are basically on the brink of the situation where continuing to pay the loan makes no financial sense. There are an increasing number of these.... *but* the largest numbers of the foreclosures are still due to the low-equity purchases, the people that took out their equity and spent the money on consumption, and those that only could afford the home in the first place because of the low going-in rate.

              So now we're told... "oh the poor victims... we have to spend public money to keep them in their homes and we have to keep interest rates low to support the market"

              Well, the people that this really helps are.... again as usual.... THE BANKS. Those mortgage backed securities are more or less entirely held by financial institutions. They have no liquidity, and with the fractional reserve banking system, if housing continues to drop those banks will be toast.

              When you hear Bernanke talk about his fear of deflation, THIS is what he is afraid of. We have don't have price deflation in ANY other area, and they don't care. Look at fuel cost, healthcare cost, food cost, insurance costs. That's all *your* problem. But deflation scares Bernanke because mortgage backed securities threaten the BANKS and the Federal Reserve Bank of the United States is a PRIVATE BANK that is controlled by and in concert with the other large global BANKS.

              They have NO interest in "saving" homeowners. The banks are *NOT* modifying significant numbers of mortgages for homeowners.

              What the holders of these mortgages are doing is foreclosing as FAST AS THEY POSSIBLY CAN, while the Fed props up housing prices via their artificial low interest rates. That's why you're hearing about sloppy paperwork and all that. They are RACING to foreclose in case the bottom drops out. Then they sell off those foreclosures at market prices that are being propped up, to recoup as much as possible.

              Meanwhile, the realities of the monetary system says that there is no free lunch. The banks are getting these overvalued assets off their books, but the COST of keeping the housing prices up while they do it is further inflation of the money supply! And that has NO CHOICE but to result in price inflation in the future. Again, as is ALWAYS the case... you and I pay the financial people.

              I expect to see another significant dip in housing... it will last a while. Then inflation. But the inflation will be currency inflation, not housing appreciation. Prices of everything will go up, houses will go along for the ride. Your purchasing power will actually decline, probably significantly.

              The banks made tons of money when they made the crappy loans. You paid for that. Now that the poop has hit the propeller and the risk has been realized, the cost of the loss is all being transferred to you. They keep the money they made during the boom.

              Such methods are the reason - THE reason - why the rich get richer and the average working family gets poorer. We have ny far the largest gap between the haves and the have-nots in the western world.

              After they reduce or eliminate their exposure, things can tank and no one will care about your home prices. Or if your home is a cardboard box under the freeway.

              The banks don't even care about you today, except to the extent that you still have some money that they can steal. Their view is that as long as what they do is legal, it's ok.

              There are things you can do to protect your wealth. Most won't do them... some will, and they will do ok in this.
              Last edited by Andy_M; 01-14-2011, 01:38 PM.

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              • #8
                Re: Stirring The Pot

                That was a very good post Andy. I can't see buying up foreclosed properties, at least not in my area and not at this time. I think prices will continue to drop and why pay property taxes and other costs if there is no telling if and when the market will make a come back? I agree that the gap between the wealthy and middle class/poor is growing. I see no evidence that our economy is in some kind of phase or trend and making a come back. If folks who buy up these foreclosed properties can't recoup some of their expenses through rent for example, then it's a matter of time before they lose the homes as well.

                The banks and mortgage companies gave out loans to folks who could not meet their commitments, but in the end folks like me who pay their bills end up with devalued homes. Folks who think massive foreclosures are a good idea, don't realize how it impacts those trying to sell a home they have substantial equity in.

                My main concern with all this is not primarilly the housing market, but the economy. The more Americans out of work equals the greater burden on the rest of us still paying income and property taxes. Until we return to manufacturing what we consume here in the USA and employ Americans to do it, we just keep making communist china richer and stronger. What do the politicians think will change our course of destruction? I feel sorry for folks who think they can benefit by picking up foreclosures as investments, unless the economy turns around they are sunk too!

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                • #9
                  Re: Stirring The Pot

                  I think you are right on all counts. I'm not buying real estate right now as we are not through the price drop yet. We are on a manipulated plateau. The next drop could be even worse. But eventually it will be a good buy since a house has intrinsic value. Intrinsic value goods are where to put money.

                  For a long time, with the stock market overvalued and housing overvalued as well, Cash was King. But at this point, the currency sytem has been so distorted that cash is IMO a very poor position to hold. I escaped the market decline because I made a good guess about the crash and went to cash. Phew, dodged a bullet. But now I'm strategically getting out of cash and increasing my position in commodities that have intrinsic value such as oil, gold, silver, platinum (but not copper, even though it's going up). Also starting to look into strong foreign currencies - the euro is NOT one of those.

                  That idiot Bernanke just predicted strong US economic growth. He is so full of crap. The numbers WILL go up, because he just printed several trillion of worthless paper and pumped it into the economy. But then it will have further to fall. Latest job results were bad. Still no domestic production. Still no domestic energy. How can there be *real* economic growth if we remain massively unemployed, have a huge and growing trade imbalance and produce nothing idustrially? It simply makes no sense.

                  Please my friends... look at Bernanke and Gov't comments critically.... remember the old saying "if it looks wrong, it's probably wrong".


                  EDIT: If I was going to buy real estate today, I would ONLY do it if I could leverage the crap out of it a tiny down payment and (VERY important) a low fixed rate loan. Don't live in it - rent it out. This makes sense. Buy a few of them if you can do it this way. The bank has the exposure, you can walk away if the market does tank and you lose your renter, and you can depreciate the rental so you show no net profit on the rent and pay no tax. If it drops, you're good. If it goes up, you're good.
                  Last edited by Andy_M; 01-14-2011, 03:44 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Stirring The Pot

                    EDIT: If I was going to buy real estate today, I would ONLY do it if I could leverage the crap out of it a tiny down payment and (VERY important) a low fixed rate loan. Don't live in it - rent it out. This makes sense. Buy a few of them if you can do it this way. The bank has the exposure, you can walk away if the market does tank and you lose your renter, and you can depreciate the rental so you show no net profit on the rent and pay no tax. If it drops, you're good. If it goes up, you're good.

                    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    Last edited by Andy_M; Today at 03:44 PM..

                    Good advice. Gone are the days of 5% down and a big bank mortgage! The banks are taking almost no risk these days. My wife and her sisters were looking into a reverse mortgage for their dad's three family house which was valued over $700,000.00 two years ago. When they got the news that it was now valued at $350,000.00 due to many foreclosures in the area, they decided against the very generous offer.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Stirring The Pot

                      Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                      Folks who think massive foreclosures are a good idea, don't realize how it impacts those trying to sell a home they have substantial equity in.
                      No I realize how it impacts those trying to sell their home...I just dont care

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                      • #12
                        Re: Stirring The Pot

                        I think this post should be mandatory reading for the tax assessor--he doesn't seem to realize that housing values have dropped!

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                        • #13
                          Re: Stirring The Pot

                          Oh they realize it just fine. Problem is they have based revenue and expenditure on those tax values. I think that now is a very bad time to invest in anything long term. Note the market has gone up and that's because investors are clambering to make profit as quick as they can before gas prices tank the whole damn thing.....again. Put your money into rice, guns and ammo
                          sigpic

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                          • #14
                            Re: Stirring The Pot

                            the basic problem is people have tired to turn houses into there investment account, or get rich quick scheme. instead of a place to live, the cost of a house should not cost more than a reasonable price for the land under it, and the cost to build it.

                            the problem is people thought they were going to get rich buying above there means, and then to sell for thousands more than they payed and some just got caught with there pants down, or got stuck playing musical chairs with out a place to sit.

                            many people of the past bought a house and lived it,maybe added on to it once or twice, raised there family and retired in the same house,

                            now they or were, advertising a starter house and a family house and a retirement home, and a vacation home, and a, and a, and a, (then you had the realestate, seminars like in the early 1970's how to make millions in real estate, and how to buy without any money down. this is the second realestate bubble I have seen happen in my adult life,

                            In all my life the main Investment advice I have ever heard, was to,
                            Do not to invest any money you can not afford to lose,
                            If you can not afford to lose it you save it, not invest it.

                            If people would have bought for the sake of a roof over there head, they would have figured in paying for the house not taking a gamble that it would increase in its price tag, and over extending them selfs. and most likely nearly regardless what one pays for it, in 30 years, it will be worth more. just to to the normal inflation that has historical taken place, (and if that would have been the general thought the bubble would have never taken off), as people would not have bought what they did not think was over priced.

                            yes I know many lost there homes to loss of income do to job loss or layoffs, but I really do not know how one can plan on that in a 30 year period, (and at times stuff happens).

                            and when it comes to Negative Equity, in a house, every time you buy a car or truck and drive it off the lot you have Negative Equity in it, and it does not seem to bother most,
                            If you felt you thought the building was worth the money, when you bought it, why is not worth paying for it now? If you bought a home to live it it should not really matter, yes it would most likely bother one if it is an investment, and all your looking at is the money and not a home,
                            Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                            "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                            attributed to Samuel Johnson
                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                            PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Stirring The Pot

                              Originally posted by BHD View Post
                              If you felt you thought the building was worth the money, when you bought it, why is not worth paying for it now? If you bought a home to live it it should not really matter, yes it would most likely bother one if it is an investment, and all your looking at is the money and not a home,
                              I agree with this part of your post because I have no intention of selling my house in the near future so it doesn't matter what anyone says it's worth. I pay my bills to live here regardless of the market value. I disagree with some of what you said because inflation over the years has increased the cost or value of most things such as cars, homes and so forth. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect to sell my house where I have lived for twenty years at a higher cost than what I paid for it way back when.

                              The whole housing market got way out of hand beyond the rate of inflation due to greedy get rich quick thinking folks, on that point we agree. You don't see many shows about "flipping" homes like they used to air all the time, and we know why.

                              Over the years I've upgraded and improved much of my home and property, I did this for my own benefit and to have the house keep or earn value.

                              You got and used good advice regarding investing, but for years the public has been told to invest in real estate. How about all those scam commercials about how to invest in real estate "location, location", or carlton sheets (spelling?) how to buy homes that were about to foreclose, or the more recent crop of bums telling us to buy delinquent tax notes to scoop up homes.

                              Well whoever is to blame, here we are millions of jobs gone, millions of homes foreclosed and more to come. I want to think positive but at this point I agree with NHMaster and his investment suggestions. Buy your flat screens, ipods, foreclosed homes and the rest of it, I'm stocking up on food, guns and ammo.

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