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Egypt and it's tea party

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  • Egypt and it's tea party

    May they string up Mubarak ! I hope some New decent leaders come forward. WHERE IS HILLARY IN ALL THIS ????????
    I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

  • #2
    Re: Egypt and it's tea party

    The problem we have here is much like Iran in the 70's. We have a strong leader in a country that is full of strife. Mixed religions, radical factions, and a very poor working class. Add to that major culture clashes between that modern, the affluent, and the ancient, and of course the Islamic extremist who want everything returned to a thousand years ago.

    Then bring into this mess the outside influences from both the left and the right and several millineums of anti-Semetic politics and you end up with a situation that is almost unmanageable.

    Unfortunately the leader you get must be extremely strong and of course that almost means "dictatorship". A benelovent dictator can be loved, but in most cases that is not the case. And of course, one gets "deal" with those that are in opposition. The question of course is "HOW?"

    Just by reading a lot of the forum posts that we see here in America, we can only imagine how some of our "Tea Party" thinkers would deal with what they see as opposition. "May they string up" is probably a mild suggestion compared to some of the banners I've seen.

    The proble now is how does the United States balance it's influence and the perception by the common Egyption of U.S. influence. In place of Mubarac, we could easily have ourselves another Ahmadinejad! (or worse, an Egyption Taliban).

    CWS

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    • #3
      Re: Egypt and it's tea party

      Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
      Just by reading a lot of the forum posts that we see here in America, we can only imagine how some of our "Tea Party" thinkers would deal with what they see as opposition. "May they string up" is probably a mild suggestion compared to some of the banners I've seen.
      How does the tea party think?

      This should be good.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Egypt and it's tea party

        I grew up where it all started. Lexington , Concord area. They are still My Heroes , and always will be.
        The Modern Tea Party are also My Heros ! Lota sour Grapes out there
        I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Egypt and it's tea party

          I'm not sure how the "Tea Party" thinks... personally I get the feeling it's not so much a collective thought as it is a growing number of concerned citizens who have their gripes, each with a personal view on it's resolution. And of course there's nothing wrong with that, until it gets radical and personally, I'm not even sure what "radical" defines. What I do know is that strange things happen if we don't have a common objective that is clear.

          (I see some "Tea Party" signs faulting the current administration as "Socialist" or "Communist" and other signs depicting President Obama as a "Hitler".... which of course are at extreme opposites.)

          In Iran, the revolt was about getting rid of the Shah and his tyranny, and those foreigners who supported his power... which was of course US, as in U.S. But, what DID the people want? Liberty? Freedom? Democracy? Or did they want another tyranical government... only one that was "religious".

          What they got was more tyranny, only this time it wore the robes of the Ayatollah! Under the Shah, there was modernization, jobs, industry, and yes, if you were against the government or against modernization, you got jail time, which was quite terrible indeed.

          Under the Ayatollah, you got stagnation, religious regimen, and ancient laws that muzzled everyone and that stripped women of their rights to do anything, including dress or socialization outside of the home. Along with that you got more prisons, only now the occupants could be just about anybody perceived as not "fitting". No more civil courts based on the rule of law, just Islamic ones.

          Now we are seeing Egypt and the same questions are in my mind... What do they want? It is clear that they want the present government gone, but do they have any idea what they may get in it's place?

          I see some similarities here... We want less government! But do we really? Do we want them to get out of everything or just the things that we may not personally like as individuals? Like maybe you don't want Social Security or Medicare and I don't want them telling me I need a license to have a gun, or drive a car. But how do you feel about jobs or the poor, or the rich for that matter. Maybe you're sick of the bridges falling down and the potholes on the streets, but I'm sick of the taxes that I have to pay! How do you resolve that?

          Maybe some of us don't like the big budget military spending, but we also fear China? Some of us think that unbridled "Capitalism" is the only way to go, but then what happens when the corporations decide that doing any manufacturing America is simply not profitable, or that safety guards are a waste of money as is food testing and agricultural oversight.

          Maybe chemicals and lab-mutated plants are more profitable for corporate food production, but what about feeding our children this stuff. Exactly who gets to make the rules and where do we get to stick our noses in and where not. Maybe it's none of our business what the food industry sticks us with or makes for us to drive, or infiltrates our homes and our lives with. We don't want government sticking their noses into our business, but where exactly do we draw the line? Maybe some of us are looking forward to the days of "Solent Green".

          I guess my point is that we all have our "don't likes" and wishes for "getting rid of"... but what do we get as a result or as a replacement? When you remove something that is disconcerning... what steps into the vacuum that is created?

          CWS

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Egypt and it's tea party

            CW: I personally think you made a very rational, objective and thought provoking post. I would say that we are different here, in that we do have that guiding document called the Constitution. IMHO, the reason for the recent sea change here had little to due with the President. It was the result of Pelosi and Reid ramming through 2000 pages of legislation that no one, including them, knew what all it entailed, was not debated on its merits, had no public mandate, and will affect every single citizen. This just was a very flagrant display of unchecked and irresponsible political power that quite rightly scared the heck out of most people who are aware of main constraints that our government is supposed to operate under. The recent elections were our answer to unchecked political extremism. Had it not occurred, I do feel a more violent revolution in the range of what is now occurring overseas would have become inevitable in the near future (10 years or so). I am very hopeful that our system, tho imperfect, worked in the fact that it stopped an unbridled direction of government and put the citizens on notice to much more closely pay attention so they can re-correct as necessary.

            The people now rebelling in Arabia and Africa have not had the opportunity to make that correction, and it has gotten to the boiling point.

            As to who we should back, if anyone? Current interpretations of history has us backing the wrong side more often than not since WWII, and then we still left half the affected countries to the hands of Stalin. Our decisions were based on economical and security, rather than morals. Mao Tse-tung came to us for help against the atrocities being committed by Chiang Kai-shek. Ho Chi Minh came to us asking for help against the French taking all the resources with no return. We refused, and backed their opponents after they went to our opponents for help. That said, had we backed the other side, would we have come out any better? No one knows. My personal choice is that when I am in a lose-lose situation, I limit any resources I expend, saving them for dealing with the aftermath when the winner is decided. We are definitely in a lose-lose situation when it comes to the Muslim countries. Any involvement we have may very well cause the opposite result of what we intend.

            Go
            Last edited by Gofor; 01-29-2011, 11:17 PM.
            Practicing at practical wood working

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Egypt and it's tea party

              Go,

              I guess the only thought that we might disagree is the "very flagrant display of unchecked and irresponsible political power" of the past Democrat-dominated Congress. While the results are certainly true enough, I feel that much of the feeling is the result of spin placed upon it by the "Party of NO". They had every opportunity to participate, but refused to the point that they became nothing more than a negative dead weight to the entire session.

              Would any of us look with sympathy on any faction within our team, club, or organization that performed in the same manner? I think not. (In my "team" experiences, one may not agree with the majority, but one certainly does not set about to scuttle them at every opportunity... and that is exactly what the Republicans did.)

              What bothers me a lot, is that much of this "halestorm of fear" is on spending for the benefit of U.S. citizens, and it has enflamed much of the country. But when the Republican's dominated the congress, it went into an unsanctioned and unjust war, infringed on our rights, squandered a budget surplus, sponsored the most secretive administration in the Nation's history, killed tens of thousands, destroyed a country, and set into motion a vast terrorist recruitment that will haunt us for decades. In so doing it disrupted American families, lives, jobs, and the deaths of thousands of our countrymen.... yet that all seemed to be okay. So too did we quietly sit through a mass exodus of U.S. jobs, and a record number of illegals entering the country.

              It was only with the rise of Obama and a Democratic Congress that the political machine of the Republicans kick in with lot of negative propaganda against social changes that would pave the way for better health care and a support for a failed American economy and infrastructure. I guess I have trouble with what my fellow countrymen feel are injustices.

              But, regarding your summation of us backing the wrong people in our international affairs... I would have to agree. We seem to be very poor in our judgements and our collaborations. (I think I wrote about this in a recent thread.) I used to say that based on our 60's and 70's assumptions of the communist threat, we would probably have backed the Nazi's if given the opportunity again.

              We just seem to be very poor in such endeavors and perhaps worse, we do not seem to hold to any moral values when it comes to honoring or even recognizing some of our commitments. We backed away from the rebels in Cuba, we left our allies in Vietnam, and we withdrew our support for the Iraqi rebellion and the Kurds after the Gulf war. America is not always the giant that can be relied on, as we have too often proven that our political resolve fades and is refocused every four years. It also appears to be at the whim of Corporate America and it's profits.

              I do think you made a great post and I agree with most of your thoughts.

              Thanks,

              CWS
              Last edited by CWSmith; 01-30-2011, 12:31 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Egypt and it's tea party

                The party of NO ! Oh You like the party of Govt. take over ,and Spending Money My 2 Year old grand daughter will be saddled with.
                The New Tea party rules for good reason. Why do You think
                O Bama is putting on this false face?
                Last edited by toolaholic; 01-30-2011, 01:46 PM.
                I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Egypt and it's tea party

                  The party of NO... that's just political rhetoric. When it comes to the US government, the default answer should generally be "no". Government (both parties) is consumed with the question "what can we get involved in, spend money on, and infringe citizens' liberty regarding". That's the problem. Don't believe it? Tune into CSPAN and see what goes on, what these people spend their time blabbing endlessly about.

                  The truth is, Government has an important job to do, and they're not doing it. They are so busy trying to expand their role that they are doing a poor job (abysmal really) at their core function.

                  Saying "yes" has gotten us quite a lot, especially lately:

                  * war
                  * wall street bailouts
                  * ineffective stimulus packages
                  * $13T total US government debt
                  * Prescription drugs added to Medicare - a new entitlement that sounds great but has a fiscal impact equal to the entirety of the Social Security problem
                  * Health Care reform
                  * expansion of the money supply by 25% in the past two years
                  * the Patriot Act
                  * FEC v. Citizens United SCOTUS decision
                  * States and municipalities at or on the brink of bankruptcy
                  * 20 million government employees, all of whom produce nothing and many of whom are on track to receive lucrative retirement pensions.

                  I'm sure all realize that the list can go on for quite a while. All of these things required many of the individuals in our Government to say "yes". Of course there are those that actually believe, even as we watch America sink into the muck, that the above things are good.

                  The Constitution of the United States is actually quite clear about what the Federal Government's job is. This doesn't require a yes or no... it just requires "doing their job".

                  I think we need a Government that implements the Constitution AS WRITTEN without trying to interpret it to fit an agenda. We should all read it. It's a brilliantly conceived document that is every bit as relevant today as it was when the ink was wet. And in fact, we need it more today than the forefathers did... except that many don't realize it.

                  Just Say "NO" is a step in the right direction... the goal is to take all the social engineering and special interest vote-getting political nonsense off the table, and worrying every day about properly executing Constitutional responsibilities well and efficiently.

                  We all should be reminded that when an official is sworn in, his oath is NOT to protect the Government, the administration, or the agenda of this party or that party. The oath *is* to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

                  To everything else, the answer should be an automatic "no".

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Egypt and it's tea party

                    Andy I wish I could hit the "thanks" button a 1000 times.

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