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Egypt at Home!

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  • #61
    Re: Egypt at Home!

    I am overpaid and under worked. I am a high school teacher. I am just about at the top of the pay scale. I only have to work half the year or 186 days. I am protected by the union. I get a generous retirement and health insurance benefits. In short I have a gravy job.

    I get paid 56,000 a year gross salary
    Out of that comes taxes and my health insurance contribution which is close to 10 grand a year.

    We have not had a contract for the past 4 years. No cost of living increases, no step raises, same pay for 4 years.

    I work 186 days officially and then put in an average of 4 to six hours a night correcting papers, doing lesson plans and handling all the other paperwork that gets tossed in my lap. Most of us have to take a second job in the summer to make ends meet. The #1 reason why more than 60% of new teachers leave within the first 5 years is because they cannot feed their families. I am required to re-certify every 3 years which means a couple grand in course fees and summer classes.

    I am expected to make sure that your child is safe and not sexually harassed or bullied.

    I am expected to watch your child for signs of depression, drugs and alcohol abuse and to advise and mentor him if need be.

    I am expected to motivate and encourage your child to learn and undo the years of parental neglect that many children are subjected to.

    I am expected to take responsibility for your childs behavior because you sure as hell won't and when your child misbehaves I am expected to deal with the problem without harming him or hurting his feelings because if I do I get my *** sued and the union and the school board will hang me out to dry.

    I am expected to hold your childs attention while you send him off to school with a 600 dollar cell phone that has 6 million or so games and apps and god help me if I try to take it away because you will come storming into the school demanding that your child has the right to play with his toys in class.

    And you all think that teachers are overpaid and under worked so I challange each and every one of you to take 3 days off and spend them at your kids school. But of course you won't because most of you don't give a crap about your childs education as long as you don't have to deal with it. Which is why the United States is 33rd in the world. Mexico is kicking our ***. You get what you pay for.

    Every teacher in this country should strike for a week or two and let you all deal with your precious little children day in and day out for awhile. And after you're done feeding and comforting them you just might find some damn time to teach them something
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    • #62
      Re: Egypt at Home!

      This is how the Taiwanese see this event:


      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9z5Y...layer_embedded

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: Egypt at Home!

        Andy, we will have to agree to disagree on this one. NHMaster, why don't you become a teacher somewhere else if you don't like it. Somewhere without kids I have enough trouble dealing with my two daughters, I can't imagine being a teacher and not getting arrested for either beating a student or parent. Maybe use the student to beat the parent Only tough part of this like I said earlier is respecting tenure but not allowing bad teachers to stay on.

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        • #64
          Re: Egypt at Home!

          Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
          And you all think that teachers are overpaid and under worked...
          I don't know who "you all" are. I never said that I think teachers are overpaid and made no reference to the amount they work. Since you raise the topic, though, I think good teachers are far underpaid, but there are substandard ones there are overpaid. No, strike that... they aren't overpaid, they shouldn't have the job in the first place. That's a complaint I have about the effect of labor unions in general.

          Seems to me that unions that protect workers that shouldn't be protected are hurting the interest of those that are doing a better job and deserve more. If a group insists on a contract arrived at through collective bargaining, then that's part of the deal. So, maybe collective bargaining is working against you and other hard working and dedicated educators, and in favor of those union members that aren't quite as interested in doing a good job. The sword cuts both ways.

          I read the list of things that you wrote and honestly, I wouldn't want to do your job. Which is why I do something else. Teaching is a tough way to turn a buck. We all have choices.

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          • #65
            Re: Egypt at Home!

            I can't speak for other unions but ours sure as hell does not defend bad teachers. We can be fired for cause at any time. I teach because I like teaching. fortunately I don't need the money but if I did I there's no way I could afford to raise a family on a teachers salary. There is a whole lot of misinformation being bandied about by the press concerning teacher pay and benefits. I've been at this now for about 6 years and my father taught for over 30. He retired in the 80's with a wopping 32 thousand a year salary. We are not immune to incompetency though, just like any job there will always be those that don't quite measure up. If PARENTS would show up at the school and at school board meetings and file complaints they could easily weed out the bums.
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            • #66
              Re: Egypt at Home!

              Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
              I get paid 56,000 a year gross salary
              Out of that comes taxes and my health insurance contribution which is close to 10 grand a year.
              There is also a lot of disparity.

              Based on http://www.myshortpencil.com/newyork...rsalaries.htm:
              In our district the median is $95,993. The average is $91k and the top is $132k. The average increment was 14.9%.

              As a point of comparison, the demographics of the town are from WikiPedia: Males had a median income of $59,949 versus $41,115 for females"

              In the one I grew up was $78,000 median. A few medians others in my county are $111k; $93k; and $91k, and $84k.

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              • #67
                Re: Egypt at Home!

                Our school board doesn't have the word "no" in their vocabulary. From closing down 4 schools no older than 40 years old..to building 5 brand new schools in our district, and graduating classes are not that big. (Aprox. 330 students per graduating class).

                Our school district uses a salary grid to determine what the teacher makes a year.

                Experience and graduate credits place you on the grid, so that is important on where you're placed.

                For example:

                Our teachers start at about $50,000 a year with a bachelors degree and no experience.

                If you have a Masters +24 they made $91,000 in the 2008-2009 school year.

                Now their contract is up and they are asking for a 2.9% raise, which I do think is very fair, even though we do have high school taxes here.

                I have no problems paying a school tax, but the states need to find another way to fund these schools in my opinion. The homeowner is penalized for any upgrade to their home and the money given to the school district, because they feel if you have the money to spend for that, you have the money to give them.

                Example..My father built a 500 square ft. addition onto his home a few years ago. $1,200.00 was added onto his taxes for that small addition and given to the schools because of it. He went to appeal because he thought that was excessive..and lost. He was told if he didn't like it, he could move out of the district....real classy.

                Now I know why many homeowners don't want to pull permits.

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                • #68
                  Re: Egypt at Home!

                  I listened to dennis miller on fox suggest teachers salary should be based on results with students. I know there are some teachers that just don't do a very good job, but let's not forget the part of students and their parents in all this. Last week in Stamford , Ct a fourteen year old girl almost died from drinking with a few friends before class. Teachers are stuck teaching to some kids who are drugged up and drunk, who is to blame ? What a mess!

                  Fox News showed a good interview with Wisconsin Gov. Walker and he made a lot of sense and shed light on things not covered or mentioned on other channels. Wheter you like Fox or not , at least they get the story. I like Gov. Walker, seems he is not trying to break the Union or take away worker's rights, but no one is getting that information out to the public. We are not getting all the facts!

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                  • #69
                    Re: Egypt at Home!

                    Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                    I listened to dennis miller on fox suggest teachers salary should be based on results with students. I know there are some teachers that just don't do a very good job, but let's not forget the part of students and their parents in all this. Last week in Stamford , Ct a fourteen year old girl almost died from drinking with a few friends before class. Teachers are stuck teaching to some kids who are drugged up and drunk, who is to blame ? What a mess!

                    Fox News showed a good interview with Wisconsin Gov. Walker and he made a lot of sense and shed light on things not covered or mentioned on other channels. Wheter you like Fox or not , at least they get the story. I like Gov. Walker, seems he is not trying to break the Union or take away worker's rights, but no one is getting that information out to the public. We are not getting all the facts!

                    I was raised with an IRON fist growing up.

                    I'm not sure where the blame goes, but you can't correct your kids like they used to do back in the day.

                    Parenting skills are lacking BIG TIME in todays world.

                    Whatever happened to the old fashion a$$ whooping you took at home when you screwed up?

                    Oh yea...violence is not the answer. Here..let me take away your i-pod instead.

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                    • #70
                      Re: Egypt at Home!

                      Originally posted by Flux View Post
                      I was raised with an IRON fist growing up.

                      I'm not sure where the blame goes, but you can't correct your kids like they used to do back in the day.

                      Parenting skills are lacking BIG TIME in todays world.

                      Whatever happened to the old fashion a$$ whooping you took at home when you screwed up?

                      Oh yea...violence is not the answer. Here..let me take away your i-pod instead.
                      The family unit like we knew is dead, at least around where I live. Too many broken homes from divorce and the Dad is out of the picture most of the time. Can't discipline if you are not there everyday. Even when couples are married the Dad is often powerless to influence or discipline his children. You can't smack, threaten or yell without fear of authorites intervening. I don't back down! I have told my daughters go ahead and dial 911, I will get arrested and be out of your life for good. Too many weak Dad's, if you love your kids, don't take the easy way out and play deaf and dumb. Unfortunately The guys who try and hang in there are greatly out numbered. Folks have children with no intention, skills, plan or priority to do what needs to be done in order to have them become decent adults. They are all gung ho with baby pictures and video, but when things start to get difficult, they back away. Sad thing is that the kids whose Dads are not living at home and involved in their lives, showing them love and drawing the line, need that, miss that and want that because it represents caring.

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                      • #71
                        Re: Egypt at Home!

                        Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                        I can't speak for other unions but ours sure as hell does not defend bad teachers. We can be fired for cause at any time. I teach because I like teaching. fortunately I don't need the money but if I did I there's no way I could afford to raise a family on a teachers salary. There is a whole lot of misinformation being bandied about by the press concerning teacher pay and benefits. I've been at this now for about 6 years and my father taught for over 30. He retired in the 80's with a wopping 32 thousand a year salary. We are not immune to incompetency though, just like any job there will always be those that don't quite measure up. If PARENTS would show up at the school and at school board meetings and file complaints they could easily weed out the bums.
                        Most states' school systems involve tenure. Sounds like yours doesn't. Here in CA it is 2 years to tenure. The pay for teachers here is significantly higher than yours. The fact that teachers have tenure after two years makes it pretty difficult to weed out the bums.

                        The teachers' union here in CA often cites parent involvement as a reason for our very low primary and secondary school performance. I raised 3 kids here in the 10th largest city in the US and didn't see any lack of parent involvement. My sense is that there was more parent involvement than when I grew up in the 60s and 70s. The argument is usually raised by the union to lobby against objective testing/rating of teacher performance. Whatever the truth is about parent involvement (and I'm sure that in reality there is and always has been a wide range of parent involvement in education), IMO there is no legitimate argument that teachers should not be graded on performance -- just like everyone else. There are ways to normalize results to more or less account for demographics etc., ways to incorporate peer grading along with other student-performance measures, etc. Doing nothing, blaming parents, and supporting ever increasing public school funding (which hasn't been shown to improve anything) isn't a solution, and hasn't been for a very long time.

                        Regarding corporal punishment, this is an area where the Government has overstepped its bounds. I fully agree that child abuse is criminal and should be treated as such. I also recognize that there are some kids and parents for whom corporal punishment, which does not rise to any significant level of injury, is appropriate and effective. I didn't do it with my kids, but my parents did it to me (I wasn't a very good kid). Today, if a mom slaps a kid and a bystander decides to call 911, the police show up. That's a great example of Gov't attempt at social engineering. The Constitution grants the Gov't no authority to make any such laws which attempt to control society. Whether you believe or don't believe in corporal punishment is your business, but it isn't in the Gov't's scope to impose their belief on parents.

                        The issue is similar to the Patriot Act, or to invasive screening at airports, or a number of other laws imposed in modern times by the Gov't. After the horrible shooting of Ms. Giffords in AZ, there was the predictable outcry about guns, size of the magazine, etc. The lunatic could have just as well have used a homemade bomb, or run up and hit the woman with a crow bar. Maybe we need crowbar control.

                        Gov't is incapable of making society safe. The laws I mentioned don't make anyone substantially safer They simply create that illusion. The problem is that creating the illusion comes at the cost of substantial personal liberty and autonomy. Considering that America exists more or less entirely as a state that was created in response to repressive rule, and was designed to value individual liberty above all else (including safety), these sorts of laws simply cost way too much IMO.
                        Last edited by Andy_M; 02-24-2011, 02:45 PM.

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                        • #72
                          Re: Egypt at Home!

                          We are tenured after 3 years but salaries are decidedly lower in this area and I don't doubt that some teachers unions have overstepped their usefulness. Still, you get what you pay for and when you start cutting teacher salaries and benefits you cannot expect to get high quality teachers in the public schools. It's a bit of a catch 22 no doubt. Everybody knows the problems but the solutions are much harder to implement. Imagine how much money we could save if we eliminated scholastic sports and music and extracurricular activities. Eliminate art and physical education and get back to basics. sounds good except that all those programs either help kids stay engaged in the school culture or they were asked for by parents. We could eliminate special education programs except they are mandated by law now. Do you have any idea how much money is spent servicing special needs students? And yet, the teacher salaries are getting all the press these days. I suppose there are a few marginal and even bad teachers but I'd also bet that they are in the vast minority. The teachers I know are dedicated, hard working and truly committed to giving your children the best education possible. However, it's pretty hard to stay dedicated when the public thinks that you are over paid and under worked. Again, I challenge anyone to spend a couple of days in the classroom as ask yourself if you could handle the job. BTW, this is a vacation week for us. So far I have taught two night courses and had to write three papers for the 3 college classes I have to take to re-certify this summer. Not much of a week off.
                          Last edited by NHMaster3015; 02-24-2011, 02:57 PM.
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                          • #73
                            Re: Egypt at Home!

                            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                            We are tenured after 3 years but salaries are decidedly lower in this area and I don't doubt that some teachers unions have overstepped their usefulness. Still, you get what you pay for and when you start cutting teacher salaries and benefits you cannot expect to get high quality teachers in the public schools. It's a bit of a catch 22 no doubt. Everybody knows the problems but the solutions are much harder to implement. Imagine how much money we could save if we eliminated scholastic sports and music and extracurricular activities. Eliminate art and physical education and get back to basics. sounds good except that all those programs either help kids stay engaged in the school culture or they were asked for by parents. We could eliminate special education programs except they are mandated by law now. Do you have any idea how much money is spent servicing special needs students? And yet, the teacher salaries are getting all the press these days. I suppose there are a few marginal and even bad teachers but I'd also bet that they are in the vast minority. The teachers I know are dedicated, hard working and truly committed to giving your children the best education possible. However, it's pretty hard to stay dedicated when the public thinks that you are over paid and under worked. Again, I challenge anyone to spend a couple of days in the classroom as ask yourself if you could handle the job. BTW, this is a vacation week for us. So far I have taught two night courses and had to write three papers for the 3 college classes I have to take to re-certify this summer. Not much of a week off.
                            VERY well said...

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                            • #74
                              Re: Egypt at Home!

                              Thought of NH today. Did a job for a retired Auto Mechanics instructor from a local high school. Fun fact from him:

                              He retired in 1980. He said during his time there they would work on any persons car or truck for........$2.00 plus the cost of parts.

                              Not just change your spark plugs or something like that. Total engine rebuild or whatever. $2.00 plus parts. And he would show the person the parts invoices. Amazing.

                              Now, of course they can't work on anything. Insurance liabilities and litigious azzholes.


                              J.C.

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                              • #75
                                Re: Egypt at Home!

                                "Again, I challenge anyone to spend a couple of days in the classroom as ask yourself if you could handle the job."

                                NHMaster, if you got any takers they probably would not be parents of children who had been in school recently. While there are some bad teachers, the majority do a great job considering the students they have. I think these are desperate times for state budgets and the result will be extreme and damaging measures. The public demands the best teachers and programs, but if the money is not there, programs will be cut and educated people will find other work.

                                The states can only cut their budgets so much and for so long, the long term fix is to reduce spending and at the same time stimulate a return of businesses and jobs. We are seeing the end result of allowing business after business to leave our country along with the jobs and tax revenue they provided.

                                Eliminating Unions and cutting salaries and benefits is a short term bandaid applied to a seriously injured economy. Break the Unions, fire the bad teachers, eliminate tenure, cut salaries and benefits, you still have a broken economy, massive unemployment, states facing bankruptcy, and no turn around in sight.

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