Announcement

Announcement Module
Collapse

How To Post Images

Want to know the how to upload images to your posts? Image Posting Tutorial
See more
See less

Egypt at Home!

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #76
    Re: Egypt at Home!

    I don't hear anyone complaining that teacher's salaries are too high. In fact, quite the opposite. People know that teaching is not a lucrative profession. What I do hear, and agree with, is that the school board and school districts waste a lot of money. For example, it's very frustrating to see a plush administrative office building go up when every election has at least one and usually more than one school bond and we see programs being cut left and right.

    You mentioned that you have tenure after 3 years. Yet you say that people could weed out the bums by going to school board meetings? I'm not sure how that works in your state, but here in CA you aren't going to get rid of a tenured teacher by complaining to the school board. That's one reason people are not happy with the system .

    I would gladly vote more money for schools... if they started to get better results. I don't feel that they do, at least here in CA. In the past, school bond issues were an almost guaranteed pass... but results declined no matter what, so people aren't automaticaly voting "yes" no longer. It's not about public ire toward teachers. It's about public ire towards poor results, waste and lack of accountability.... exactly the same problems that afflict most Government-run bureaucracies. And irrespective of the dedication of many teachers, which I don't doubt for a second, the fact is that public education is a Gov't bureaucracy.

    Here in CA they are severely cutting back sports, music, drama and other programs. We are, I think, second highest in the US in dollars spent per student, but performance hangs near the bottom and has for many years. The district administration buildings still look pretty nice, though.

    But we're getting lost in minutia. The thing to keep in mind is that over 40 states are in danger of bankruptcy. Many municipalities are already there. That will mean no police, no fire, no sewer, nothing. Cities like Vallejo CA are already sharply limiting essential services because they have no money.

    The Federal Government spends $3.7T and takes in only $2.1T And this completely ignores unfunded liabilities and off budget expenses, that add literally tens of TRILLIONS more to the problem.

    It's not the teacher's fault, it's not the old folks' fault or the defense department's fault or the fire department's fault. It's everyones's fault. . This problem was created because every year we add some more spending, we increase the scope of Gov't a little. After 50+ years of this, we have a gov't machine (which includes education) that represents 46% of the GDP.

    Everything has to be cut if we're going to get out of this mess.

    Comment


    • #77
      Re: Egypt at Home!

      Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
      We are tenured after 3 years but salaries are decidedly lower in this area and I don't doubt that some teachers unions have overstepped their usefulness. Still, you get what you pay for and when you start cutting teacher salaries and benefits you cannot expect to get high quality teachers in the public schools. It's a bit of a catch 22 no doubt. Everybody knows the problems but the solutions are much harder to implement. Imagine how much money we could save if we eliminated scholastic sports and music and extracurricular activities. Eliminate art and physical education and get back to basics. sounds good except that all those programs either help kids stay engaged in the school culture or they were asked for by parents. We could eliminate special education programs except they are mandated by law now. Do you have any idea how much money is spent servicing special needs students? And yet, the teacher salaries are getting all the press these days. I suppose there are a few marginal and even bad teachers but I'd also bet that they are in the vast minority. The teachers I know are dedicated, hard working and truly committed to giving your children the best education possible. However, it's pretty hard to stay dedicated when the public thinks that you are over paid and under worked. Again, I challenge anyone to spend a couple of days in the classroom as ask yourself if you could handle the job. BTW, this is a vacation week for us. So far I have taught two night courses and had to write three papers for the 3 college classes I have to take to re-certify this summer. Not much of a week off.
      While all this sounds plausible, every occupation has it's pitfalls. I could sit here and list the sob stories Plumbers have to go through, and how we are under paid. While teachers might be putting up with spoiled rotten kids like you listed...Shall we talk about the germs and life threaten bacteria Plumbers deal with 7 days a week 365 days a year? Or how Plumbers are expected to do this or that? I think you can find this stuff in any field..don't you agree?

      To be quite honest, I'm sick and tired of hearing "it's about the children" or "Quality of education argument" I think that horse has been beaten to death now for many years.

      You become a teacher because you have a "LOVE" for teaching. If you loved teaching that much, it wouldn't matter how much you were being paid, you would make sure the quality of information and dedication you were teaching was top notch regardless of pay scale.

      I became a Plumber because I enjoy and have a love for it. The quality of Plumbing I give my customers is the same whether I'm charging $65.00 or $110.00. .I give them 100% effort every single time. I have customers who can't rub 2 nickel's together..but yet I give them the same amount of attention as I would a millionaire.

      The way this is sounding is...if you pay a teacher more money a year, the education would be better, and to be quite honest...that argument is full of baloney!

      14 million people in this country don't have jobs. If the teachers truly hate their salary and benefits..GET OUT..so we can give your job to someone else who doesn't have a job.

      I'm not making this personal with you NH..just saying it in broad terms.
      Last edited by Flux; 02-24-2011, 05:48 PM.

      Comment


      • #78
        Re: Egypt at Home!

        I don't believe I was advocating for more money but rather against the insane notion that teachers are over paid. Lest you forget I have owned a plumbing company for 35 years so I know what happens there too. You say if we don't like it get out. Ok, now who do you really think you are going to get to take over the reigns? Do you really believe that there are hundreds of qualified and certified teachers waiting in the wings? I'm here to tell you there are not. And the reason there are not is because it costs so damn much money to get the degree, get the certification, do the 3 year apprentice teaching thing and get paid squat. Do some research and note how many teachers quit within the first 5 years and why.
        sigpic

        Comment


        • #79
          Re: Egypt at Home!

          "Everything has to be cut if we're going to get out of this mess."

          I absolutely agree and that should include no more borrowing from other countries or payouts to other countries. The cost of war in both money to engage and money to rehabilitate and support the wounded.

          I still think if we have one trick pony which is to shrink everything, we will fail. We must regain our consumer independence through a return to manufacturing along with a growth of nongovernment jobs. If you depend on your neighbors for food and they keep raising the cost, you can either eat less and less until you and your family starve, or start planting! We are a dead society dependent on others for our consumer goods.

          Comment


          • #80
            Re: Egypt at Home!

            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
            I don't believe I was advocating for more money but rather against the insane notion that teachers are over paid. Lest you forget I have owned a plumbing company for 35 years so I know what happens there too. You say if we don't like it get out. Ok, now who do you really think you are going to get to take over the reigns? Do you really believe that there are hundreds of qualified and certified teachers waiting in the wings? I'm here to tell you there are not. And the reason there are not is because it costs so damn much money to get the degree, get the certification, do the 3 year apprentice teaching thing and get paid squat. Do some research and note how many teachers quit within the first 5 years and why.
            I know you have a Plumbing company...and that's why I know you would understand the other side of the coin.

            This is what bothers me the most out of this entire mess regarding teachers and school taxes.

            You have people who have lived in these communities all of their lives. These people are forced to move out of their community because they simply can't afford to pay the school taxes anymore. Some of these people are losing their homes because they can't afford the taxes anymore. How does the teachers sleep at night knowing this going on around the country?

            Also..

            There are a lot of people around the country that can't afford the benefits that teachers get for themselves, but yet they are forced to provide tax dollars to provide it for someone else or they lose their home.

            That just doesn't sit well with me.

            We have a mess in this country, and something has to be done now to correct it. The time for playing games is over..as it's only going to get worse and more violent.

            Comment


            • #81
              Re: Egypt at Home!

              Could someone list what the governor of Wisconsin is asking for that has caused all of the controversy?

              Thanks.


              J.C.

              Comment


              • #82
                Re: Egypt at Home!

                Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                Could someone list what the governor of Wisconsin is asking for that has caused all of the controversy?

                Thanks.


                J.C.
                "
                Far from draconian, Walker’s proposal would limit collective bargaining power and reform public employee benefit plans. For the first time, state employees would be responsible for making a 5.8 percent contribution into their pension plans and pick up the tab for 12 percent of their health care benefits. As it currently stands, Wisconsin taxpayers bear 100 percent of the costs.

                While Walker’s proposal would allow unions to continue to represent workers, it would prevent the unions from seeking “pay increases above those pegged to the Consumer Price Index unless approved by a public referendum.” It would also prevent unions from forcing employees to pay dues and would require the unions to hold yearly votes to remain viable.

                For years, education unions have profited from teachers’ salaries—receiving the bulk of their funding from teachers’ paychecks—while they have successfully stood in the way of the interests of children by blocking much-needed education reforms. And in many cases, teachers have no choice in whether or not to join a union"

                In my opinion part of this power play is not about saving the state's budget but rather directly weakening the Union. Imagine if those who did not agree with our government could simply stop paying taxes? I don't mean government officials who often don't pay, I mean regular folks.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Re: Egypt at Home!

                  Thanks Frankie. That's all I could find too. Thought I might be missing something big.

                  My opinion at this point is these protesters don't have much foundation to their disagreement.

                  And the Senators who ran should be jailed.

                  I wish TMZ or one of those B.S. shows would track them down and ask them about cowarding out. Or a legitimate newsperson for that matter.


                  J.C.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Re: Egypt at Home!

                    Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                    "Everything has to be cut if we're going to get out of this mess."

                    I absolutely agree and that should include no more borrowing from other countries or payouts to other countries. The cost of war in both money to engage and money to rehabilitate and support the wounded.

                    I still think if we have one trick pony which is to shrink everything, we will fail. We must regain our consumer independence through a return to manufacturing along with a growth of nongovernment jobs. If you depend on your neighbors for food and they keep raising the cost, you can either eat less and less until you and your family starve, or start planting! We are a dead society dependent on others for our consumer goods.
                    We don't have to worry much about borrowing from other countries. They don't want to buy our Treasuries any longer. Bernanke with his QE, bailouts and years of low interest that have debased the currency have seen to that. The Gov't spends substantially more than it makes, and can't borrow anymore. Can you spell bankrupt? I don't think the politicians can.

                    You're right about the one trick pony not being enough. We do need to return to our roots as an industrial power. That isn't going to happen until and unless business finds the US attractive. But between the extreme over-regulation, an unpredictable and reactionary government, and the highest corporate tax rates in the world (we used to be #2 but Japan announced that they're reducing theirs) we aren't very attractive.

                    IMO, the bottom line is that unless we shrink this tumor of a Gov't and do it soon, we will never be able to get back to a healthy economy. It's nuts to think that any country could have a total gov't that spends 40+% of the GDP. Of course, if we could somehow wave a magic wand and shrink the budgets, could the Country stand that the loss of all that money that the Gov't pumps into the economy? I don't think so. The tumor is killing the patient, but treating the tumor is just as likely to kill the patient. Many decades of this ever expanding Gov't lunacy may have created what may be the perfect storm.

                    Jefferson, Madison et al warned us about this -- all of it, from large government to central banks and fiat money. These people knew that Government wasn't a solution, it was a necessary evil that needed to be minimized. But we were seduced by promises that, had we looked at them critically, would have been easy to see as shams. About 80 years worth of them.
                    Last edited by Andy_M; 02-24-2011, 11:40 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: Egypt at Home!

                      Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                      Thanks Frankie. That's all I could find too. Thought I might be missing something big.

                      My opinion at this point is these protesters don't have much foundation to their disagreement.

                      And the Senators who ran should be jailed.

                      I wish TMZ or one of those B.S. shows would track them down and ask them about cowarding out. Or a legitimate newsperson for that matter.


                      J.C.
                      J.C., as a long time Union member I understand their protest. They conceded to the wage and pension requests, but refuse to do nothing in the face of losing their Union representation.

                      I was part of a Union which went on strike for months at a time to win and retain benefits. I say this because it is a very empowering thing to see, and a lot of folks underestimate the coordinated efforts these people can put forth when mobilized. What makes a groups of folks such as a sports team or police force so effective is their coordination, they are not individuals running around on their own but part of a group effort. I say this because while gov. walker has a police force and some part of the voting public behind him, the Unions will form a concerted effort which is usually very effective.

                      I understand the different opinions posted on this thread, but I wonder if we all agree the situation of economic crisis facing these states is real! If we can agree on that, then we must agree that extreme measures are called for regardless of our other opinions.

                      Lastly, I believe the senators took off to avoid the vote knowing they would lose. I find that to be a very poor way to resolve the problem. They should face some kind of disciplinary action, our government does not function by legislators hiding from their elected duties. Man up and vote, if you lose and the voting public is on your side, they will make their upset known at the polls. We can't afford to have either party do this, but can you imagine if republicans did this? Bunch of hypocrits.
                      Last edited by Frankiarmz; 02-25-2011, 12:19 AM.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X