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  • Where to draw the line?

    Am I the only one that questions the wisdom of the following?
    Instructing a novice to extend or amend His or Her's own gas piping?
    I have come to the conclusion this is a disservice to the poster and possible the family
    that May occupy that dwelling at a later date. I'LL STOP MYSELF NOW. Just My own
    feeling on this. Thanks Tool
    I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

  • #2
    Re: Where to draw the line?

    I would agree.

    While I don't think task is particularly difficult, it does require knowledge, experience, and most often the proper equipment if the the piping is to be installed efficiently and safely. Just screwing together a few lengths of black pipe, tubing, and related fittings doesn't sound too challenging, but of course if it isn't done properly and to existing codes, the novice and any future occupants are at extreme risk.

    My Dad was in the trades, was a licensed "steam-fitter" and a active member of the local union. I used to help him on occasion and I've cut and threaded pipe (the old fashioned way with a pipe vise and hand-threading dies (is that what thier still called?). But that was a long, long time ago. I would not and will not do that kind of job today. Like plumbing and certain electrical work, it's best left to those who are in the profession and absolutely up to date with the "codes" and the latest techniques.

    I'm fairly comfortable and competant with residential electrical work. So while I'll replace a switch, add a wall outlet, and even do some trouble-shooting, I really prefer to have a real electrician do the work (if I can find one who is ready and willing). "Productivity" is doing what one does best and leaving other challenges to what they do best... hire a professional. I would hope NOT to instruct a "novice" in the DIY manner of tackling potentially dangerous services like gas, plumbing, and electrical installation and/or repair.

    CWS

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    • #3
      Re: Where to draw the line?

      Thanks ,For all We know they may be making up 4 threads with a little dope and rocking up a wall!
      A blocked drain,or a new hose bib, never killed anyone!
      I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Where to draw the line?

        i work for some of the wealthiest people in the city. they can afford hiring licensed professionals. but some actually like doing small jobs by themselves.

        i would be worried more about all the do it your-selfers that work on their own cars, especially the brakes.

        while gas has the potential to be dangerous, a leak typically will have an odor associated with it to forewarn the people of it.

        yet brakes have no warning of a potential problem from a diy job gone wrong. potentially putting themselves, passengers, other motorist and pedestrians at risk.

        screwing together threaded pipe is a lot less complicated than doing a brake job.

        i'm sure any do it your-selfers doing a gas piping repair is not going to leave their job with a known leak. but do they really know when their brake job is going to fail?

        rick.
        phoebe it is

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Where to draw the line?

          Tough call with DIY'rs because while some get in over their heads, some guys actually take their time and do a pretty good job. No question that lives have been lost and people badly hurt trying to do things beyond their capability. How many folks get hurt or killed using a chain saw?No license required to get some of the most dangerous tools and machines imaginable. You can just hear the screams as the weekend warrrior is cutting a board with his circular saw and takes a few fingers along. Snow blowers are great for a mangled hand. Guys working under cars without jack stands get killed every so often. Gas is dangerous, so is electricity or using wood working tools. I agree there is a risk to future owners when gas work is not properly done, but there is a risk of fire with electrical work done improperly. Consider a outdoor deck not properly supported or built, a few years down the road ten or so folks are enjoying themselves and it collapses, resulting in broken bones or worse. I'm a do it yourselfer and even I suggest folks hire a professional. The good thing about giving advice on this Forum is that since these folks are determined to do it themselves, at least they can get the benefit of a professional who might help them avoid a serious situation. Your dammed if you do and dammed if you don't .

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          • #6
            Re: Where to draw the line?

            let hd advise them and take the liability. The one time I ran gas for a friend, I did it only because she had another friend liscensed and insured for it (I'm not) who was too busy to actually run all the pipe pull a permit and inspect my work. Offered to hire me lol; that felt good.
            This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Where to draw the line?

              Have Yet to see anyone walked through a brake job on this forum!
              I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Where to draw the line?

                Folks can go on YouTube and see all sorts of instructional videos. I've worked as a fleet mechanic and done brake jobs for over thrity years. In my opinion you either get a good brake pedal when done or you don't, not nearly as many hidden problems as with plumbing, electrical or carpentry. Folks who are ill prepared actually make work for mechanics. I've seen many people round off a brake line fitting because they didn't use a flare nut wrench. Plenty of spark plugs snapped off in the head because they didn't know how to hold a simple socket wrench.
                All work has it's own specific risk beyond being done properly and to code. Most folks don't even follow basic safety rules which gets them into trouble. Loose clothing or jewelry, the wrong foot wear, no eye protection, the list goes on and on. I think a lot of folks don't have any business near tools or machinery, they don't have the mental focus. Years ago I was teahcing a new guy how to operate a boom truck, every other day I walked him through the steps of lowering the stabilizing legs first and then removing the boom from it's cradle. After one month of this routine I told him I would just keep quiet and watch to see what he had learned. He did not hesitate to remove the boom before lowering the legs. I stopped him before he flipped the truck on it's side.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Where to draw the line?

                  Originally posted by TheMaster
                  I've used the brake job example many times and its a good one. Dead is dead be it from a brake job or a gas leak/explosion. I say electrical takes the cake for the most unsafe conditions I see that homeowners and contractors have done.
                  From a seasoned S.F. FIREMAN. 80% OF ALL FIRES IN THE CITY ARE CAUSED BE FAULTY elec. You can't imagine the box overfill I see .
                  I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Where to draw the line?

                    We've been down this road on this very subject before. In fact I think it was me that started the whole thing and me that got thrown off another well known plumbing diy site for daring to address the same subject. I'll say it again though. I believe that giving diy'ers advice on ANY SUBJECT that could potentially kill them and their family is a pretty irresponsible thing for licensed professionals like us to do. We should know better. It's our job to protect the health and safety of the public, not put them in danger. There are plenty of things they can do. change faucets, fix toilets clean strainers and such that I don't think we need to cater to every question that comes across the forum.
                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Where to draw the line?

                      Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                      We've been down this road on this very subject before. In fact I think it was me that started the whole thing and me that got thrown off another well known plumbing diy site for daring to address the same subject. I'll say it again though. I believe that giving diy'ers advice on ANY SUBJECT that could potentially kill them and their family is a pretty irresponsible thing for licensed professionals like us to do. We should know better. It's our job to protect the health and safety of the public, not put them in danger. There are plenty of things they can do. change faucets, fix toilets clean strainers and such that I don't think we need to cater to every question that comes across the forum.
                      I respect your judgement and limits on this subject. Just curious if you would at least try to offer advice that would prevent a hazardous condition. For example, if a DIY'r said he was going to use pvc for gas to save time and money, would you not post a comment? I'm not suggesting you walk him through the job, just tell him not to do something unsafe?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Where to draw the line?

                        I figure that by the time someone gets on a forum they have already pretty much decided to diy regardless of the answers. Sooner or later someone is going to give them the advice that they want and that most will post on several other forums as well.
                        sigpic

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                        • #13
                          Re: Where to draw the line?

                          Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                          We've been down this road on this very subject before. In fact I think it was me that started the whole thing and me that got thrown off another well known plumbing diy site for daring to address the same subject. I'll say it again though. I believe that giving diy'ers advice on ANY SUBJECT that could potentially kill them and their family is a pretty irresponsible thing for licensed professionals like us to do. We should know better. It's our job to protect the health and safety of the public, not put them in danger. There are plenty of things they can do. change faucets, fix toilets clean strainers and such that I don't think we need to cater to every question that comes across the forum.
                          For most of us working[ and loving the trades] Our hands get smart ,and We just follow the proper mechanical pratices without much thought. I just know there are folks that must think 4 threads in on a gas coupling looks just fine! I agree with You, and will refrain on giving Gas fitting advice. I know some here will spin this. My Dad said "You can justify anything in this world." I'll always be short on "people skills "and political correctness! So be it !
                          I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Where to draw the line?

                            Some of the people I deal with truly have no clue what they are doing, but think just because they spent 30 years working as a sexual intellectual, have changed a flapper valve in a toilet, and drive by a construction site every day that they have 30 years of experience as a plumber/framer/or whatever trade suits their needs. While I will refrain from telling them how to do the job, I will try to give enough advice to help prevent them from killing somebody with their Mad skills as a F-ing know it all(the sexual intellectual I was tellin you about...) Sometimes I even get the job to clean up their mess and do it right once they realize they screwed up.
                            We don't have preventative maintenance around here, we have CRISIS MANAGEMENT!

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