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  • #16
    Re: Bye Amazon, thanks for the memories

    Here in NY, you have to show your sales tax certificate or payment receipt when you register your car.

    Ya gotta love it,

    CWS

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    • #17
      Re: Bye Amazon, thanks for the memories

      Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
      Will I be able to still purchase products from amazon ? I'm confused, is it over for us all in Kaliforna?
      We're ok, no problem buying from Amazon in CA. Since they have dropped their affiliates, they won't be collecting sales tax, at least for the time being.

      So I expect with CA being broke, we haven't heard the last of this, even with Amazon dropping it's affiliates.

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      • #18
        Re: Bye Amazon, thanks for the memories

        Originally posted by Andy_M View Post
        We're ok, no problem buying from Amazon in CA. Since they have dropped their affiliates, they won't be collecting sales tax, at least for the time being.

        So I expect with CA being broke, we haven't heard the last of this, even with Amazon dropping it's affiliates.
        Except California is trying to say because Amazon has people doing research on their kindles at labs in California it still has a physical presences.

        Mark
        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Bye Amazon, thanks for the memories

          Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
          My argument, is that it's a damn "Sales" tax... NOT a "PURCHASE" tax! The state in which the "sale" is made may or may not levy a tax on the sale, but certainly my state of residence has no right whatsoever in taxing what I spend or purchase when I'm traveling elsewhere.
          FYI, It is a "Sales & Use Tax", if you read the fine print.

          Here in NY, the "sales" tax also changes from one county to another. The "state" gets theirs and the particular county where the purchase is made has their own percentage. One county might be 8% and another might be 7% or something else. Indian reservation are another battleground, as the state has attempted time and again to levy cigerette taxes on sales made within the various tribe's soveriegn territory. These court battles are ongoing, but the bottom line is that the states are desparate in their attempts to squeeze all the revenue they can out of us.
          It can even be different inside one county. The city of White Plains has a higher tax than the rest of our county.

          I think the state should just focus on taxing sales within the state, and not try to capture the additional revenue. I definitely don't want to add a national sales tax, because I think it will just be added on top of the income tax. But in NY where we have it, I'm not sure I want it to go away; because it probably has better enforcement than income tax.

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          • #20
            Re: Bye Amazon, thanks for the memories

            Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
            Except California is trying to say because Amazon has people doing research on their kindles at labs in California it still has a physical presences.

            Mark
            Yes, Amazon has Lab126 and A2Z Development center in Cupertino, although those aren't retail operations. That's what I was refererring to when I mentioned that i don't think we've heard the last word on this. It would be a disaster if CA forced Amazon to move those subsidiaries... just what we need, more job loss.

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            • #21
              Re: Bye Amazon, thanks for the memories

              Originally posted by Andy_M View Post
              Yes, Amazon has Lab126 and A2Z Development center in Cupertino, although those aren't retail operations. That's what I was refererring to when I mentioned that i don't think we've heard the last word on this. It would be a disaster if CA forced Amazon to move those subsidiaries... just what we need, more job loss.
              I actually think the subsidiary or research lab if it is materially controlled by Amazon is a reasonable argument for a nexus, as compared to the affiliates; and making Amazon collect sales tax is justified.

              Its sad that many governments are pursuing policies that discourage companies from hiring. If Amazon does decide to move that kind of research from CA, there is no guarantee that it will stay in the US.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Bye Amazon, thanks for the memories

                Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                Andy, if communist china ever takes control of our country there will be law and order. There won't be anymore democracy and freedom, but that's our fault. Now, do I watch the President play golf, or the casey anthony trial? Nothing seems to be more important!
                Frank, I'm not so sure we have democracy or freedom today in the United States.

                Just about everything is regulated, taxed or requires a license or permit. How many insurances are you required to buy? And to that number, include Obamacare. Many of us pay 50% or more of our earnings as tax. So much for freedom.

                Government is dominated by two parties that are owned by commercial banking and large corporations. The Supreme Court treats these corporations as if they have the same rights as citizens. So much for democracy.

                We have the Patriot Act (love that name, bet someone is still getting a huge laugh out of that). Another blow for liberty. Apparently many have forgotten what Ben Franklin said - "Anyone willing to sacrifice liberty for safety will get neither".

                Individuals in Washington decide unilaterally to send our children off to be killed in wars based on misinformation and spin. Other military actions are undertaken without congressional approval. More democracy in action. Foreign policy appears to be dictated by the oil lobby, by Europe and by global financial interests.

                Gov't is clearly afraid of China. Or should I say, they're afraid of China shutting off the tap of loan money and cheap products to the US.

                The Government, through the Federal Reserve, devalues your wealth at will by manipulating the money supply and interest rates. Did you get to vote on any of this? I must have missed that election. The Federal Reserve's Open Market Operations are even protected from audit by the Government that created them in the first place. So, even Govt doesn't *really* know what they are doing.

                Yup, "land of the free" all right. Jefferson, Madison, Franklin and yes, even Hamilton must be so disappointed.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Bye Amazon, thanks for the memories

                  Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                  Except California is trying to say because Amazon has people doing research on their kindles at labs in California it still has a physical presences.

                  Mark
                  Yeah, and then the next thing they will say is they have a server in some state, so they should be collecting tax in that state also.

                  Or let's say I live in California, but I am out traveling, and am at an airport in Florida, and pay for the airport Wifi. I now buy something on Amazon, that is based in Washington, if I remember correctly, but my item ships from a distribution center in Texas. It sounds silly now, but very soon all those states will be looking to collect the tax on that item, and it will be a bigger mess then it already is.

                  My opinion is that the government does not have an income problem, it has a spending problem.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Bye Amazon, thanks for the memories

                    Originally posted by Nevada plumber View Post
                    Yeah, and then the next thing they will say is they have a server in some state, so they should be collecting tax in that state also.

                    Or let's say I live in California, but I am out traveling, and am at an airport in Florida, and pay for the airport Wifi. I now buy something on Amazon, that is based in Washington, if I remember correctly, but my item ships from a distribution center in Texas. It sounds silly now, but very soon all those states will be looking to collect the tax on that item, and it will be a bigger mess then it already is.

                    My opinion is that the government does not have an income problem, it has a spending problem.
                    California, and I think most states, does not care where you are when you make a purchase. The issue is where you take delivery. For on-line purchases this means the delivery address. Here, the tax rate varies by county and city as well, as each of them also charges their own sales tax.

                    There are exceptions, notably autos. If you take delivery outside the state but try to register within the state, you have to pay sales tax. This came about because people were buying from out of state dealers to skirt the tax. They also wanted to skirt CA emissions regulations, which they also can't do since the DMV here deals with that, too.

                    In California, just because an out of state retailer isn't required to collect the tax doesn't mean it isn't due. We consumers are supposed to report the purchase and pay the tax on our State income tax return.

                    CA is going after Amazon because it would be massively difficult and expensive for the state to monitor online out of state purchases, and they are, after all, broke.

                    Amazon is really concerned with their bottom line. If this tax collection notion takes hold, as you've said other states will start coming up with reasons for Amaxon and the others to collect tax for those states, too. Amazon and the other online retailers would incur quite a hefty cost to add this functionality to their computer system(s) have it certified, and they would have to have people to do it all and prepare the sales and use tax returns for each state. This is a big job when you're talking about all 50 states, each further comprising many counties and cities. The result of all this money spent is that the online retailers sales would decline, since they give up a bigh chunk of any cost advantage once they have to charge and collect sales tax. I suspect that this is the real issue to Amazon.

                    As for whether Gov't has a spending or income problem, I think they have both. Total Gov't revenue (all sources) is about $2T v. a budget of $3.7T. Realistically, they could get a long way by cutting spending, but they can't cut enough. They can reduce the rate of borrowing, but can't reduce the total national debt until they actually stop borrowing.

                    Income, IMO, is equally important as spending. Gov't is not going to be able to eliminate major entitlements like Social Security and Medicare. They shouldn't have gotten into the entitlement business in the first place, but at this point we will have a massive amount of sick, poor, homeless retirees if they cut it back too far. But all those people will have one thing the Gov't can't take... their vote. The bottom line as I see it is that we have to both cut as close to the bone as possible, but also generate more revenue. Can't just increase taxes. That will choke off the economy. It's not much different than a company with a revenue problem. They can't just double their prices, or they will lose their customers. If Gov't continues to increase the tax burden, they will choke off business. Not because of the corporate tax... but because folks won't have enough money left after taxes to buy much. Talk about killing the goose that lays the golden eggs! On top of that, current monetary policy is reducing the dollar's purchasing power. Not just for the citizens, but also for the Government. Medicare in particular will be getting a whole lot more expensive, and soon. So will defense. Fortunately there'a a lot of room in the defense budget.

                    Revenue has to growm and it has to do so by getting the economy back on a growth track. Economic growth = higher tax revenue for the Gov't. Unfunded liabilities,mostly Medicare, are currently estimated to be between $50 and 100 trillion over the next 30 years. You aren't going to be able to solve that with cuts, and you aren't going to solve it with taxes. The US needs to get back to producing and exporting to pay for itself, just like you and I have to work to be able to pay for food and rent. An economy based on consumption of cheap imported stuff (our $14T GDP is 70% related to consumption) isn't moving in the right direction.
                    Last edited by Andy_M; 07-02-2011, 06:28 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Bye Amazon, thanks for the memories

                      People are ordering online to avoid paying sales tax. They cant let that go on forever and its only getting worse each year.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Bye Amazon, thanks for the memories

                        Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                        People are ordering online to avoid paying sales tax. They cant let that go on forever and its only getting worse each year.
                        Only partially true, I also order online because it is easier than going out shopping. The supply is almost limitless and with places like Amazon their customer service is second to none. In addition, I get my package within two days with free shipping. Besides, why should California be entitled to sales tax on items purchased from other States?

                        Mark
                        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Bye Amazon, thanks for the memories

                          Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                          Only partially true, I also order online because it is easier than going out shopping. The supply is almost limitless and with places like Amazon their customer service is second to none. In addition, I get my package within two days with free shipping. Besides, why should California be entitled to sales tax on items purchased from other States?

                          Mark
                          Because your shipping those items to california thats why. They set their sales tax rate at a certain percentage because they figure people willl buy things local. Well thats changed now. More and more people are ordering things by mail and the sales tax revenue is lacking.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Bye Amazon, thanks for the memories

                            Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                            Because your shipping those items to california thats why. They set their sales tax rate at a certain percentage because they figure people willl buy things local. Well thats changed now. More and more people are ordering things by mail and the sales tax revenue is lacking.
                            Of course using that logic they should be able to collect taxes on my next out-of-State vacation. Once Amazon fired all of their California affiliates California can no longer collect taxes from out-of State sales. The end result, 10,000 + companies will be forced to leave the State to sell through Amazon. As a result, California will loose the $100,000,000 + Amazon is currently collecting on sales to Californians by it's now fired California affiliates.

                            Mark
                            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Bye Amazon, thanks for the memories

                              Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                              Of course using that logic they should be able to collect taxes on my next out-of-State vacation. Once Amazon fired all of their California affiliates California can no longer collect taxes from out-of State sales. The end result, 10,000 + companies will be forced to leave the State to sell through Amazon. As a result, California will loose the $100,000,000 + Amazon is currently collecting on sales to Californians by it's now fired California affiliates.

                              Mark
                              But you "use" your vacation out of state. You presumably use the item you ship to California, in California.

                              I have to pay sales tax on Amazon, but still use it for all kinds of stuff; especially because of Prime. It takes 5 minutes to shop instead of at least close to hour to go somewhere and back, and it just shows up at my house. Faster, easier, cheaper. The 8% doesn't change that for me.

                              In NY they do one better, based on your income they guesstimate what you should have paid in sales & use tax from online merchants; and then add that to your income tax return (unless you want to document actual purchases).

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Bye Amazon, thanks for the memories

                                Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                                Of course using that logic they should be able to collect taxes on my next out-of-State vacation. Once Amazon fired all of their California affiliates California can no longer collect taxes from out-of State sales. The end result, 10,000 + companies will be forced to leave the State to sell through Amazon. As a result, California will loose the $100,000,000 + Amazon is currently collecting on sales to Californians by it's now fired California affiliates.

                                Mark
                                If you pay for your vacation from home in California then you should pay sales tax on it. If you go out of state and purchase a vacation you would hafta pay that states sales tax........right? Why should a guy not hafta pay sales tax just because he paid for it over a phone or a computer? How can you justify that as right when the loca/statel goverment provides services through sales tax revenue?

                                Ebay is next watch and see!!! There are millions of $$$$$$ being lost through sales tax evasion for one reason or another. It is either easier to buy online or its cheaper.....or both. Either way you want to look at it the local and state goverments are loosing money hand over fist.

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