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May 2011

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  • May 2011




    J.C.

  • #2
    Re: May 2011


    Very good point, trouble is that today's generation doesn't want to start at the bottom and spend the time to learn anything skillful. Most, not all, think that they should be getting the big bucks right away once they leave the nest (that is, if you can get them out of the nest to begin with or keep them from coming back ). It's a generation that only knows instant gratification with little effort.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: May 2011

      Originally posted by lreops View Post

      Very good point, trouble is that today's generation doesn't want to start at the bottom and spend the time to learn anything skillful. Most, not all, think that they should be getting the big bucks right away once they leave the nest (that is, if you can get them out of the nest to begin with or keep them from coming back ). It's a generation that only knows instant gratification with little effort.

      Mostly our fault.


      J.C.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: May 2011

        J.C., I like "dirty Jobs" and I like listening to Mike speak. I agree that the trades have taken a hit and trade schools are disappearing, but Mike only told a partial story. I guess he did not have the time to work in the economics behind the story? Many of you here work in the trades and or own your own trade based businesses. My personal contact with tradesmen has been through family and friends, and over the years I heard stories of hard times due to less new building and unfair competition. Licensed tradesmen who would crush their competition by hiring unlicensed and sometimes illegal help to do jobs they covered under their license. Then there were stories of rising insurance costs, materials and everything else imaginable to cut into profits including dead beat customers . Sure the savy businessman can stay competitive, but there seemed to be a lot of folks who worked real hard only to see their dreams lost.
        I believe our country needs trademen and other skilled labor, but we need to get other things right as well. There is too much to talk about but I just don't think you can educate kids in the trade schools and not have a better path to employment at the end. I know skilled mechanics who work long hours and are barely getting by, poor quality parts requiring double the labor, rising costs, etc. The deck is stacked and needs to be reshuffled.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: May 2011

          Originally posted by lreops View Post

          Most, not all, think that they should be getting the big bucks right away once they leave the nest (that is, if you can get them out of the nest to begin with or keep them from coming back ). It's a generation that only knows instant gratification with little effort.
          It's because these people think they are entitled.

          J.C. is right, as it is our fault. A certain group of people are getting to these kids at a young age, and teaching them all about entitlements and having the mindset these jobs are menial. People are so caught up with teaching these kids job skills, and that's not the problem at all. These youngsters need to learn that they need to pay their dues to the trades. You say that to any youngster today and they wouldn't know what the heck you were talking about.

          But because things are so darn expensive today, these problems go much further than the trades itself.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: May 2011

            Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
            J.C., I like "dirty Jobs" and I like listening to Mike speak. I agree that the trades have taken a hit and trade schools are disappearing, but Mike only told a partial story. I guess he did not have the time to work in the economics behind the story? Many of you here work in the trades and or own your own trade based businesses. My personal contact with tradesmen has been through family and friends, and over the years I heard stories of hard times due to less new building and unfair competition. Licensed tradesmen who would crush their competition by hiring unlicensed and sometimes illegal help to do jobs they covered under their license. Then there were stories of rising insurance costs, materials and everything else imaginable to cut into profits including dead beat customers . Sure the savy businessman can stay competitive, but there seemed to be a lot of folks who worked real hard only to see their dreams lost.
            I believe our country needs trademen and other skilled labor, but we need to get other things right as well. There is too much to talk about but I just don't think you can educate kids in the trade schools and not have a better path to employment at the end. I know skilled mechanics who work long hours and are barely getting by, poor quality parts requiring double the labor, rising costs, etc. The deck is stacked and needs to be reshuffled.
            Granted, there will always be many factors & obstacles to overcome for any change.

            It is good to see someone in the public eye make efforts to have occupations become recognized, respected, and promoted.

            I can't say that tons more kids coming up should be in skilled trades. And I'm not all gloom and doom on the next "overtexting" generation. I'm sure the previous generation thought the world was going to he!! when their kids started doing the Jitterbug. They turned out ok and I'm sure the next one will adapt in ways we cannot see.

            But I can say I recognize a movement in the U.S. to have a negative connotation towards skilled trades. And just everyday things that were passed on from father to son for generations are now not done.

            It's not just that people don't want to change their oil, it's that they don't know how.


            J.C.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: May 2011

              Originally posted by TheMaster
              Its a general assumption that if you work with your hands your a Fk-up or an idiot.. Simple as that.
              I think that stigma was placed because of the drug addicts and dirt balls these trades attracted through out the years. When i was in high school and didn't know any better, those teachers use to say..."if you don't do well in school, you will end up on the back of a trash truck picking up trash". Last time I looked..trash guys make some pretty darn good money...lol.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: May 2011

                I live in a neighborhood with mostly white collar workers and they look down on me because I take care of my house and property. I am proud of my abilities and I know that in an emergency I can take care of business while these useless snobs have no tools and no knowledge. They are the same dopes that drive $50k suv's with bald tires! We have too many people who make big money and have no real skills!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: May 2011

                  Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                  I live in a neighborhood with mostly white collar workers and they look down on me because I take care of my house and property. I am proud of my abilities and I know that in an emergency I can take care of business while these useless snobs have no tools and no knowledge. They are the same dopes that drive $50k suv's with bald tires! We have too many people who make big money and have no real skills!
                  Frank, we have some customers that look down on us because of what we do for a living. It's almost like they want to laugh at us, but I find it's not a laughing matter anymore when I hand them a bill for my expertise. I almost want to say to them.."not funny anymore is it?".

                  Too many people are caught up with how they are perceived in society today.

                  Look at the old timers in this country...I love going into an old timers basement to do work, cause most have a workshop down there that would make any man jealous. You see the jars screwed to the joists filled with all type of screws and small parts. Every single tool known to man kind on his work bench...AND..neat and clean as a hospital. Those guys and guys like that today are real men!

                  I know some old timer on this board has his shop like that....post up a picture!!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: May 2011

                    This thread reminds me of a story...

                    3 years ago we installed a brand new boiler for my old neighbor where I use to live This guy lives in an old twin in town here, and he's 88 years old and fought in the battle of the bulge, and has trouble walking today because of his age.

                    His wife died years before and so he lives by himself, and lives cleaner than most people that I know. His basement is a work shoppers dream, and after we installed the boiler, this old timer washed and repainted his entire basement floor.

                    Every morning this guy would wait on his front porch for me...(look at his watch cause I left my house by 8am) and I could hear him say "Jesus christ" and then yell to me "YOU WORK BANKERS HOURS"! lol

                    I still stop by his house now and then cause he always outside on his porch, and I have a few beers with him. I love hearing his stories about the way things use to be in this country, and I love hearing stories about the battle of the bulge.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: May 2011

                      Originally posted by Flux View Post
                      Frank, we have some customers that look down on us because of what we do for a living. It's almost like they want to laugh at us, but I find it's not a laughing matter anymore when I hand them a bill for my expertise. I almost want to say to them.."not funny anymore is it?".

                      Too many people are caught up with how they are perceived in society today.

                      Look at the old timers in this country...I love going into an old timers basement to do work, cause most have a workshop down there that would make any man jealous. You see the jars screwed to the joists filled with all type of screws and small parts. Every single tool known to man kind on his work bench...AND..neat and clean as a hospital. Those guys and guys like that today are real men!

                      I know some old timer on this board has his shop like that....post up a picture!!!
                      This is a touchy subject for me as well. I worked out in the streets placing telephone poles, pulling cable above and below ground and doing reapir work in people's homes. I listened to disrespcetful comments from lowlifes who never worked and got poor treatment from folks who thought they were better than me and wouldn't even offer us water from a garden hose in the summer! I learned to do auto repair from immigrants from jamaica and italy. These guys worked their trades from childhood. I learned to be a lineman from men who worked with their hands and backs. I am proud that I could send my daughters to college from working a real job and not sitting on my fat butt moving money around producing nothing, fixing nothing.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: May 2011

                        Well, gee, let us think here for a second.

                        For starters, contractors typically pay peanuts to their apprentices, and yet are always suprised they get monkeys! This drives those kids with an honest work ethic away, afterall, $8.00 an hour sure as hell isn't going to pay the food bill, even less the gasoline to get to work, and don't even believe for half a second to support going to a community college. We have to work, harder, longer, and more stressful than previous generations ever had to endure, inspite of the fact we have the most educated workforce in the history of this entire country! With this high level of education, is it really that wrong to pursue careers that are more mentally enlightening, and greater earning potential than turning a screwdriver? And yet, this attitude is "poo-pooed" upon as "being entitled". Excuse us, but we would like to enjoy the same benefits that previous generations reveled in such as affordable housing, food, education, and utilities, that you people all of a sudden labeled as "entitlements". In fact, due to upcoming deployment, my employer is going to be forced to hire an apprentice to take my place while I'm gone. However, he too was worried about being forced to hire someone that "really didn't want to work", and wondered how much he should pay. I suggested starting wage should be $15 an hour. I swear he almost snapped his own neck from turning his head so fast towards me, since on private jobs, I only get around $16 an hour, licensed. However, I know I spoke the truth because he was thinking in terms of dollars, while I reasoned in spending power.

                        But, as always, do not EVER take my word for it, do the math yourselves. Today, at the present Federal minimum wage, a man has to work a full hour to afford one gallon of gasoline and one loaf of bread. Especially factoring the burden of carrying YOUR health insurance costs and taxes. Back in the 70's, a man only had to work TEN MINUTES at the Federal minimum wage THEN to afford the same things. We have to work harder on a level unseen since the "Gilded Age" so tell us again just how lazy we are.
                        Last edited by tailgunner; 07-12-2011, 12:10 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: May 2011

                          Originally posted by tailgunner View Post
                          Well, gee, let us think here for a second.

                          For starters, contractors typically pay peanuts to their apprentices, and yet are always suprised they get monkeys! This drives those kids with an honest work ethic away, afterall, $8.00 an hour sure as hell isn't going to pay the food bill, even less the gasoline to get to work, and don't even believe for half a second to support going to a community college. We have to work, harder, longer, and more stressful than previous generations ever had to endure, inspite of the fact we have the most educated workforce in the history of this entire country! Excuse us, but we would like to enjoy the same benefits that previous generations reveled in such as affordable housing, food, education, and utilities, that you people all of a sudden labeled as "entitlements".

                          But, as always, do not EVER take my word for it, do the math yourselves. Today, at the present Federal minimum wage, a man has to work a full hour to afford one gallon of gasoline and one loaf of bread. Especially factoring the burden of carrying YOUR health insurance costs and taxes. Back in the 70's, a man only had to work TEN MINUTES at the Federal minumum wage THEN to afford the same things. We have to work harder on a level unseen since the "Gilded Age" so tell us again just how lazy we are.
                          I was waiting for you to share your perspective, it represents the here and now which is ever changing. $8.00 and hour doesn't go very far for a person paying taxes and living by himself or trying to support a family, but for the illegal sharing a living space with several other and flying under the radar it enough. Not a level playing field.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: May 2011

                            OK , How many of You felt , "You are that grandfather with smart hands ?"
                            I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: May 2011

                              I won't put myself in that group but I have rented to a college professor who knew nothing about care or workings of a car. I live with high paid folks who know nothing about the upkeep and repair of their homes or the world in which they live. Compared to some of these folks who only know their specific job duties, my hands not exactly stupid.

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