Announcement Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.
Verizon strike Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Re: Verizon strike

    Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
    There was a time where the argument could be made that the Union were needed to improved working conditions for their workers. However, those days are long gone. Today we have labor laws and OSHA to protect employees. In many cases what we have left is many Unions who are just plain bullies. The idea that the salary of a CEO or the profitability of a Corporation should be directly related to the compensation of employees is just plain silly. The compensation of employees should be directly related to the quality and skill of work required to complete the task at hand. There is a reason Unions are afraid of Open Shops.

    Mark


    However, those days are long gone.



    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Verizon strike

      Mark, I disagree as you might imagine. In my opinion the days of Unions protecting workers and working conditions is far from long gone. Not long before I retired we had a boss who tried to have us do a job that required four men, with only three. The job involved manholes in NYCity and a rodding truck (1400' of 9/16th steel rod). We refused and the Union reps stepped in reenforce our sentiments. Similar scenarios are played out many times across the nation and will continue to happen. Many folks are not educated as to the advancements Unions played and still play for all US workers Union and nonUnion. The antiUnion remarks here are typical of folks who in my opinion just don't know any better. My Union did not make my job safe, that would be impossible. My Union did help to make it safer, did help to stop verbal or any other abuse which is quite common in the work place. There are plenty of stupid bosses who are bullies. I stopped more than one truck from leaving our construction yard because of serious safety issues after the boss insisted the trucks go on the road. There are bullies on both sides of the labor aisle, if you choose to only focus on Unions then you miss an awful lot of abuse by management. Your choice. Frank

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Verizon strike

        Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
        Mark, I disagree as you might imagine. In my opinion the days of Unions protecting workers and working conditions is far from long gone. Not long before I retired we had a boss who tried to have us do a job that required four men, with only three. The job involved manholes in NYCity and a rodding truck (1400' of 9/16th steel rod). We refused and the Union reps stepped in reenforce our sentiments. Similar scenarios are played out many times across the nation and will continue to happen. Many folks are not educated as to the advancements Unions played and still play for all US workers Union and nonUnion. The antiUnion remarks here are typical of folks who in my opinion just don't know any better. My Union did not make my job safe, that would be impossible. My Union did help to make it safer, did help to stop verbal or any other abuse which is quite common in the work place. There are plenty of stupid bosses who are bullies. I stopped more than one truck from leaving our construction yard because of serious safety issues after the boss insisted the trucks go on the road. There are bullies on both sides of the labor aisle, if you choose to only focus on Unions then you miss an awful lot of abuse by management. Your choice. Frank
        We are talking two different things. If you were non-Union and you called OSHA would they have required your employer to ensure you were working in safe conditions? I'm not saying the Union does not provide a service to their members. I am saying the abuses that caused the Unions to form are illegal today. What in the current Verizon strike deals specifically with violations of labor laws or health and safety issues? You would be surprised how many Union members I know who complain about the worthless employees they have to work with because the Union protects their jobs at their peril. Just like there are are bad bosses (Union & non-Union) there are bad employees and bad Unions. The only thing that might change that is Open Shops.

        Mark
        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Verizon strike

          Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
          We are talking two different things. If you were non-Union and you called OSHA would they have required your employer to ensure you were working in safe conditions? I'm not saying the Union does not provide a service to their members. I am saying the abuses that caused the Unions to form are illegal today. What in the current Verizon strike deals specifically with violations of labor laws or health and safety issues? You would be surprised how many Union members I know who complain about the worthless employees they have to work with because the Union protects their jobs at their peril. Just like there are are bad bosses (Union & non-Union) there are bad employees and bad Unions. The only thing that might change that is Open Shops.

          Mark
          Mark, just because abuses or situations are illegal does not mean they no longer exist. The nonUnion worker who tries to get OSHA to enforce a safety issue is not going to have the immediate response or job longevity of a worker with a strong Union. I was able to speak up and stop the trucks from leaving the garage because my coworkers knew they were protected, these were trucks with broken leaf springs, axles separating from the truck body. Beyond those situations there are the benefits that were "won" over many years of contract bargaining that are in jeopardy. You said earlier that company profit and ceo pay has no bearing on worker compensation, here too we disagree. We have fundamental differences on this subject. I absolutely believe worker loyalty that results in growth and profit deserves monetary and benefit rewards. You see and disconnect between company profit, ceo compensation and worker pay and benefits. I understand that but disagree. In the case of verizon, myself and others lost many months of pay while on strike over the years to win the salary and benefits we had. The fact that verizon made record profits negates any excuse to ask for givebacks or reduction of benefits in my opinion. I believe we need to pay our workers much more so that they can support their government and communities. As I see it, the overwhelming problem with our country is the loss of American businesses and jobs to mexico, communist china and elsewhere, along with the growing illegal population and the weakening of the middle class worker. America and tax paying Americans don't win a dam thing when working folks lose salary and benefits, the society as a whole grows weaker. I know I won't change any minds, I understand the thought process and that's okay.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Verizon strike

            Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
            . I was able to speak up and stop the trucks from leaving the garage because my coworkers knew they were protected, these were trucks with broken leaf springs, axles separating from the truck body.
            on a deal like that all one would have had to do is take to the nearest DOT place and they would have impounded the truck, until it was properly repaired, after a few of those situations the DOT would be doing inspections on ever truck in the shop,
            Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
            attributed to Samuel Johnson
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Verizon strike

              Frank -

              We know you were a Union guy and you see things a little differently than most of us in this country.

              I just want to say you're a good sport for taking my crap at least.

              I could easily sit down and have a beer with you....but you would be buying the beers, cause of that killer pension you have. hehe

              But I absolutely agree with Mark, at one time I believe Unions were a good thing...not anymore. (my opinion)

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Verizon strike

                Shut up and get back in line.I got three illegals to take the place of every one of you.
                You should be thankfull for what you got!!!
                Signed:
                All private contractors

                Which is basically who installs all of Verizon's wire.
                Every road crew is illegal or a large portion thereof.

                Your world is done as you know it.Too many people displaced to allow unions to try and help.They have already excessively exposed their greed.

                My next goal is to privatize the California fire Department.Free food and a place to sleep while being paid.The fresh in countries make $20,000cash a year and can still afford a $20,000 truck.Lot better than paying $80,000-120,000 to a guy and the three retired behind him that are still alive,Bet it works out to $500,000 per year per fireman.

                HMMM..Let's see $20,000 vs. $500,000.What a way to bail out California.Hey,my career was destroyed by an open border.Why not yours.
                OOPS here come all the fireman's wives...Gotta go boys.
                Last edited by drtyhands; 08-09-2011, 07:25 PM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Verizon strike

                  Originally posted by Flux View Post
                  Frank -

                  We know you were a Union guy and you see things a little differently than most of us in this country.

                  I just want to say you're a good sport for taking my crap at least.

                  I could easily sit down and have a beer with you....but you would be buying the beers, cause of that killer pension you have. hehe

                  But I absolutely agree with Mark, at one time I believe Unions were a good thing...not anymore. (my opinion)
                  IT's my pleasure to take your crap! Nice thing about our country is the right and opportunity to think differently and express our thoughts. The Ridgid Forum is unique in being able to do that without things getting out of control. I am not thrilled by the lack of Union support but I appreciate the honest responses. Trust me, it's not easy having all these free benefits and huge pension. I wish everyone who worked hard could enjoy similar retirement. No offense but I worked a real man's job. I'd gladly buy the beers but only if you could invite "TheMaster"

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Verizon strike

                    Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                    Shut up and get back in line.I got three illegals to take the place of every one of you.
                    You should be thankfull for what you got!!!
                    Signed:
                    All private contractors

                    Which is basically who installs all of Verizon's wire.
                    Every road crew is illegal or a large portion thereof.

                    Your world is done as you know it.Too many people displaced to allow unions to try and help.They have already excessively exposed their greed.

                    My next goal is to privatize the California fire Department.Free food and a place to sleep while being paid.The fresh in countries make $20,000cash a year and can still afford a $20,000 truck.Lot better than paying $80,000-120,000 to a guy and the three retired behind him that are still alive,Bet it works out to $500,000 per year per fireman.

                    HMMM..Let's see $20,000 vs. $500,000.What a way to bail out California.Hey,my career was destroyed by an open border.Why not yours.
                    OOPS here come all the fireman's wives...Gotta go boys.
                    You should move out of California...you're fighting a losing battle there.

                    California is absolutely "stunning" with lots of great places to see, but I feel sorry for those blue collar workers trying to make a living there.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Verizon strike

                      Frank, First of all, I am in your corner all the way. But, more important is to remember that most of these guys are too young to remember or know of what it was like before unions and what it was like in the early days. They don't know what it was like before the benefits that unions won for them even tho they don't belong to one. For example, in construction, no radios on the job; no coffee breaks; no vacation; no hospitalization; no pension; furnish all your own tools (including power-what little there was) no job security;(some contractors even laid off a person a week just to keep fear in the rest) for starters. Of course, you can work non union now--the pay isn't as much, but you can work all the hours you want--even Saturday and Sunday! Gives you lots of time to spend with your family! Unlike some, I can't speak for other unionized areas, because I haven't experienced them, but I have studied the history of labor and I know I sure wouldn't like to see things go back to pre- union days. One other thing as long as I am on the "box"--Did you ever notice that a lot of people who bash unions belong to one themselves, albeit under another name? i.e. Chamber of Commerce, Farmers Union, Contractors organizations, etc.?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Verizon strike

                        Well I never heard of a Chamber of Commerce that went on strike, nor a Farmers Union. And that's the difference.

                        No-one alive is old enough to remember what it was like before unions. They've been running well over 100 years. I'm English by birth, and what the industrial unions did in the 1970s there is very similar to what's happened here in the last few years. There are NO UK car manufacturers anymore (some would say a good thing). There are NO deep coal mines in the UK (despite there being 300 years of coal reserves, and formerly 300 mines). The unions did themselves out of a job. One of the car plants was closed by its parent company (a French company). Union response? - strike!

                        It really does come to something when the UAW gets itself in a situation where its labor agreement is so costly that the company not only goes bankrupt, but then ends up being owned by.... the Unions! Only the federal government can afford that kind of labor. Well, at least he thought they could afford it, on borrowed money, as it turns out.

                        I agree with the earlier sentiments. 100 years ago, there was a need for unions. They're still stuck there in terms of thinking, and the world has moved on past them.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Verizon strike

                          I could absolutely care less what happened in the past with Unions, as I live my life in the present, and see Unions at face value.

                          Sweatshops is nothing more than a "cliche" that Union backers like to throw around, but yet won't admit to the "fact" we have laws """"against"""" that type of activity in this country.

                          Making an $80,000 a year base salary is not what I call working in a "sweat shop", and Verizon workers should be "Thankful" (<---That word does not exist in the Union handbook) that they have a job in this horrible economy.

                          I swear you Union backers sound like broken records, but yet will not acknowledge the fraud, criminal activity, and fleecing to the American taxpayer.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Verizon strike

                            Here is a textbook representation of Union thinking. They think they are entitled.



                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Verizon strike

                              Originally posted by Pipestone Kid View Post
                              Frank, First of all, I am in your corner all the way. But, more important is to remember that most of these guys are too young to remember or know of what it was like before unions and what it was like in the early days. They don't know what it was like before the benefits that unions won for them even tho they don't belong to one. For example, in construction, no radios on the job; no coffee breaks; no vacation; no hospitalization; no pension; furnish all your own tools (including power-what little there was) no job security;(some contractors even laid off a person a week just to keep fear in the rest) for starters. Of course, you can work non union now--the pay isn't as much, but you can work all the hours you want--even Saturday and Sunday! Gives you lots of time to spend with your family! Unlike some, I can't speak for other unionized areas, because I haven't experienced them, but I have studied the history of labor and I know I sure wouldn't like to see things go back to pre- union days. One other thing as long as I am on the "box"--Did you ever notice that a lot of people who bash unions belong to one themselves, albeit under another name? i.e. Chamber of Commerce, Farmers Union, Contractors organizations, etc.?
                              Kid, thanks for the support and it is unfortunate these guys don't understand or appreciate history. When someone says they don't care what Unions accomplished in the past, that's like saying they don't care what our forefathers accomplished in winning our independance. I was not lucky to have a job, New York Tel which became NYNEX, which became Bell Atlantic, which became Verizon, was lucky to have me as a worker! These folks can't understand what life was like before Unions and that's the problem. Pinkerton guards and company goons ruled the workplace. Sweat shops may be illegal but they too still exist in the absence of Unions. In my opinion if Unions are feared and outlawed by communist countries, then they represent freedom and the American way! $80,000 is not a big salary after taxes, Uncle Sam does very well by Union workers who can't hide their income. Let these fellows insult and belittle the proud American Unions and promote communism, personally I am proud for my membership, proud for the truth, justice and American Way! God Bless America, and God help this current crop of citizens. Remember to look for the Union label. Please, watch this video and understand that if America has a distant future you who support your communist china goods will be judged.
                              Last edited by Frankiarmz; 08-09-2011, 10:02 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Verizon strike

                                Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                                Kid, thanks for the support and it is unfortunate these guys don't understand or appreciate history. When someone says they don't care what Unions accomplished in the past, that's like saying they don't care what our forefathers accomplished in winning our independance. I was not lucky to have a job, New York Tel which became NYNEX, which became Bell Atlantic, which became Verizon, was lucky to have me as a worker! These folks can't understand what life was like before Unions and that's the problem. Pinkerton guards and company goons ruled the workplace. Sweat shops may be illegal but they too still exist in the absence of Unions. In my opinion if Unions are feared and outlawed by communist countries, then they represent freedom and the American way! $80,000 is not a big salary after taxes, Uncle Sam does very well by Union workers who can't hide their income. Let these fellows insult and belittle the proud American Unions and promote communism, personally I am proud for my membership, proud for the truth, justice and American Way! God Bless America, and God help this current crop of citizens. Remember to look for the Union label. Please, watch this video and understand that if America has a distant future you who support your communist china goods will be judged.
                                Where's that computer made you're typing on?


                                J.C.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X