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  • #46
    Re: Verizon strike

    In my opinion, defending communist china for how they do business is like saying your neighbor who is a convicted violent sex offender is a good guy because he lets you use his swimming pool! I believe capitalism has evolved to the point of something very unAmerican and unhealthy for our democracy. I denounce communisim and those who endorse it including capitalists. The citizens of communist china cannot protest their government, they are told what to do and how to live. Our labor movement in the form of Unions is a hallmark of democracy. Lastly, "Our Military uses "force" to preserve life,liberty and freedom..NOT Benefits,healthcare, and wages!!! " to this little gem of wisdom, you are wrong. Benefits, healthcare and wages come under the pursuit of happiness, our military represents these ideals everwhere it fights oppression and here in the USA Unions fight that good fight. I am done, you guys can continue to praise capitalists who ruined our country and promote communism. Frank

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Verizon strike

      I think the whole "entitlement" thing is quite key to this.

      The Union leader is asking to preserve his members' middle-class existence. Well in my book, they don't have one in the first place. If it's a class thing, I see it like this:

      Upper Class - Land owners, political "dynasties", major business owners, ie independently wealthy people. People who don't care about when their salary hits the bank, if they have one.
      Middle Class - Professionally qualified people - doctors, dentists, lawyers, accountants, teachers, military officers. Salaried.
      Upper Working Class - Skilled workers, but not degree or professionally qualified. Eg cable pullers & jointers, plumbers, carpenters, military NCOs. Often hourly paid, often unionized.
      Lower working class - Unskilled workers, minimum-wage earners, laborers. Pretty much always hourly paid, and frequently unionized.

      There will always be exceptions, but that's how I see it. The CWA is trying to get their members into the next class up, and I fail to see how you can equate a doctor with a bricklayer.

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Verizon strike

        Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
        Open a history book! The christian faith is built upon bodies stacked high, where have you been? Read about the history of Unions and how pinkerton guards (thugs) killed Americans trying to organize labor. We use force to bend people to our way of thinking in iraq, afghanistan and every other place in the world. How do you think we fought against the british during the revolution? Labor in this country is at war, make no doubt. Organized labor is literally fighting to protect jobs and benefits from those who wish to destroy their standard of living and way of life. How would you react to a mandate calling for "heating and plumbing" trademen to earn no more than minimum wage? If you were in your right mind you would do whatever was necessary to stop the injustice. Organized labor including verizon workers will not take steps backwards, it is unAmerican to give into bullies. Your problem is that you are confused about who is wrong here. You defend the wrong folks and demonize Unions because of some misinformation or bad past experience, In either case, it is the plight of the working person above the person who sits on his butt in my opinion. If you ever pick up a histroy book on christianity you will learn that right behind the cross was a army ready, willing and able to force their will, the will of their God. Amen brother.
        Ok I opened a history book and the closest thing I found to what you believe in was written by Karl Marx.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Verizon strike

          The largest construction boondoggle in recorded human history continues to unfold in the Central Valley of California. The initial segment of Obama's pet project, a high-speed rail line from Merced to Bakersfield, just had its first announced cost overrun. With costs jumping from $7.1 billion to a staggering $13.9 billion, the project now has doubled in price even before a single shovelful of earth is turned. Now that is the seat-of-the-pants, lets just make up a number, government contracting that the Democrats and the unions so dearly love.
          What a surprise

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Verizon strike

            When these strikers first applied for a job at Verizon did they ask how much the CEO was making in order to determine if they wanted to work for Verizon? I doubt it very much. They were probably happy to get a job. So what happened between now and then? Unions.
            When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Verizon strike

              In other News...

              The Recall efforts in Wisconsin failed for the Democrats and Unions. Kind of a telling story, considering that's a very liberal state and the last time the state went Red during a Presidential election was 1984.

              31 Million dollars wasted in this effort.
              Last edited by Flux; 08-10-2011, 03:16 PM.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Verizon strike

                About 8 years ago, there was a national firemen's strike in the UK. The military were drafted in to provide coverage. Because of the picketing of fire stations, the military could not use the regular red fire trucks that were sitting idle. That left them with about 1000 auxiliary fire trucks that dated from the 1950s, and were intended to help out with the aftermath of a nuclear war. As a complete aside, they'd have been utterly useless if they had survived the attack.

                Anyway, during the strike, I was driving one way up the equivalent of the Interstate, while there was one of these "Green Goddesses" going the other way, up a hill with a Police escort. Lights and sirens on, but lucky if they were doing 25 mph up this hill in a 60 year old fire truck.

                I wasn't long out of the Army at that time, and I swear, if I'd met a striking fireman that day, there'd have been blood. And not mine. How DARE they sit idly by while some poor person's dying in a fire (the Army could only respond to life-threatening or major fires), while the Army are struggling like hell to help what little they could. It was one of the most pathetic scenes I've ever seen, and I was raging in my car going the other way. How very f***ing dare they.

                What were the union on strike for? A 40% pay rise. Yes, that's right, FORTY percent. Demanding equality with professional people. See my earlier post.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Verizon strike

                  Originally posted by Flux View Post
                  In other News...

                  The Recall efforts in Wisconsin failed for the Democrats and Unions. Kind of a telling story, considering that's a very liberal state and the last time the state went Red during a Presidential election was 1984.

                  31 Million dollars wasted in this effort.
                  The sad part is, part of that $31,000,000 spent was money paid to the Union by members who did not want their money spent on the recall.

                  Mark
                  "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                  I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Verizon strike

                    Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                    With pleasure! I'm a verizon retiree, and if you understood what was happening you would know the strike was necessary. Verizon is not the postal service, they made billions as opposed to losing money. I'm opposed to any concessions at all, as a matter of fact I think the givebacks have fueled our shrinking economy. Workers should demand higher wages and better benefits because they are not the problem. The problem is the loss of tens of thousands of tax paying businesses that provided tens of millions of Americans with jobs. You can thank shortsighted politicians and corporate America because without a strong consumer base they have no market.

                    Show me where verizon is hurting with their ceo making over twenty million dollars? He is worth every dime of that money and so is the Union verizon worker who supports his city, state and county through taxes. The same worker who supports his communtiy with every purchase he makes.
                    When you want to shake your head in disbelief, direct that sentiment towards the ceo's who ruined their companies and outsourced jobs, the politicians who refused to secure our borders from illegals who burden the working man, the politicians who borrowed and borrowed adding to the 15 trillion dollar debt and our current economic nightmare. Say a prayer for the Union worker, the American worker who is here legally, supporting his country and community. I will say a prayer for those who just don't see the wrong where it lies. Frank
                    What I want to know is how the unions are going to "help" our country and industries be competitive in a global economy or even domestically if Americans and especially union workers aren't willing to work for a realistic wage. Suppose that ALL Americans joined unions, suddenly we all have higher paying jobs and can live the "upper middle class" standard? We weren't promised a bed of roses that I know of, and where would all the money come from (forget Verizon for the moment if you will)? Our domestic product would price itself out of the export markets. In my mind the more the unions "negotiate" for higher pay the more likely it will be that their job will be outsourced. Ultimately I think that their idea that they "deserve" a middle class lifestyle will be the knife that cuts their own throat. JMHO.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Verizon strike

                      Originally posted by SewerRat View Post
                      What I want to know is how the unions are going to "help" our country and industries be competitive in a global economy or even domestically if Americans and especially union workers aren't willing to work for a realistic wage. Suppose that ALL Americans joined unions, suddenly we all have higher paying jobs and can live the "upper middle class" standard? We weren't promised a bed of roses that I know of, and where would all the money come from (forget Verizon for the moment if you will)? Our domestic product would price itself out of the export markets. In my mind the more the unions "negotiate" for higher pay the more likely it will be that their job will be outsourced. Ultimately I think that their idea that they "deserve" a middle class lifestyle will be the knife that cuts their own throat. JMHO.
                      If you are asking a serious question I will give you my honest answer. Not one bit! The American worker Union and nonUnion would literally have to work for the same slave wages to be competitive with their third world counterpart, unfortunately at those wages they would not be able to pay taxes or housing, food, utilities or anything else. I continue to be amazed by the misdirected anger and ignornace by some folks here. Most of the tradesmen here know what it cost for them to raise a family and they charge their customers accordingly. What would you consider a "realistic" wage that would be competitive with the folks living in communist china? All I know is the price of food is going up every single week, same with every other bill. In my opinion we need more working folks earning more and paying more to support our government and society, not less. The economy will not get better by taking money from the working class. Now if you and the other experts here really think it's a good idea to reduce salaries, do it across the board, lose tax revenue that runs the country which is already in trouble, then build up the tent cities because not many folks will be able to afford their homes. You won't need colleges or hospitals for the new slave class because the folks still earning a decent can hardly pay for the illegals they so furiously defend. I'll bet every President from Washington to Regan would be disgusted by the folks here who insult hard working Union folks while pushing to have our country mirror communist china!
                      Great idea, see how far you will need to go in cutting wages to become competitive. You might want to find another market for all the cars and electronics because the working folks here won't be able to afford them either.

                      I see a different approach but it takes guts and a stomach I don't exists here anymore. Start building factories and employ Americans to make what Americans consume. Pass legisaltion that makes the capitalists choke on their food, if they want to profit from the American consumer they had better make it here. You will pay more upfront, but you won't pay unemployment, your property values won't continue to fall and sorry you won't enrich communist china or that cess pool to the south of America. Now let's see how many good Americans can insult othe working Americans and praise communism. Frank

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Verizon strike

                        When are you buying me some beer karl...I mean Franki!!!! LOL

                        J/k you franki I still love ya even if you are union. most people do what they think is good for them despite what they say in public. even if what they do is GOOD that doesn't mean their motives of doing it in their heart was.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Verizon strike

                          Frank, you're making an assumption about "realistic" wages. The reference to "realistic" bears no relation to what the worker can do with his wages or whether it's "realistic" to the worker. The crucial factor is whether it's realistic for the company to employ the worker at a specific cost. If a worker makes a widget, and the widget sells for $50, and he can make 30 an hour, then labor cost is less of an issue. If however the widget sells for 20 cents, and his machine makes 100 an hour, it's not hard to see that the worker's not going to get $20 an hour. It's unrealistic. So perhaps the employer might offer $10 an hour. If that's not realistic for the worker, he's free to not take the job. Nothing whatsoever to do with the employer screwing the worker, it's just uneconomic to employ him at $20 an hour. If a Chinese factory can make the same 100 widgets for $3, and the shipping costs $2, then what happens?

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Verizon strike

                            Can someone list what both sides are saying?

                            The Verizon company wants this.....

                            The Union employees wants this....


                            Thanks.


                            J.C.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Verizon strike

                              Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                              If you are asking a serious question I will give you my honest answer. Not one bit! The American worker Union and nonUnion would literally have to work for the same slave wages to be competitive with their third world counterpart, unfortunately at those wages they would not be able to pay taxes or housing, food, utilities or anything else. I continue to be amazed by the misdirected anger and ignornace by some folks here. Most of the tradesmen here know what it cost for them to raise a family and they charge their customers accordingly. What would you consider a "realistic" wage that would be competitive with the folks living in communist china? All I know is the price of food is going up every single week, same with every other bill. In my opinion we need more working folks earning more and paying more to support our government and society, not less. The economy will not get better by taking money from the working class. Now if you and the other experts here really think it's a good idea to reduce salaries, do it across the board, lose tax revenue that runs the country which is already in trouble, then build up the tent cities because not many folks will be able to afford their homes. You won't need colleges or hospitals for the new slave class because the folks still earning a decent can hardly pay for the illegals they so furiously defend. I'll bet every President from Washington to Regan would be disgusted by the folks here who insult hard working Union folks while pushing to have our country mirror communist china!
                              Great idea, see how far you will need to go in cutting wages to become competitive. You might want to find another market for all the cars and electronics because the working folks here won't be able to afford them either.

                              I see a different approach but it takes guts and a stomach I don't exists here anymore. Start building factories and employ Americans to make what Americans consume. Pass legisaltion that makes the capitalists choke on their food, if they want to profit from the American consumer they had better make it here. You will pay more upfront, but you won't pay unemployment, your property values won't continue to fall and sorry you won't enrich communist china or that cess pool to the south of America. Now let's see how many good Americans can insult othe working Americans and praise communism. Frank
                              Boy I think you got this totally wrong. First I don't believe there is a member here who wants us to "mirror communist china". Secondly, no one here is trying to insult hard working workers, Union or not. Who they are insulting is Unions and the way some operate. If you really want a fair system make it all Open Shops. Instead the Union wants total control over all Union and non-Union workers. Now to me, that sounds like the Union may be the ones who want to "mirror communist china".

                              Mark
                              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Verizon strike

                                Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                                Can someone list what both sides are saying?

                                The Verizon company wants this.....

                                The Union employees wants this....


                                Thanks.


                                J.C.
                                Anyone?


                                J.C.

                                Comment

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