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  • #61
    Re: Verizon strike

    It's always "raise" taxes so we can support the Unions who leech off of taxpayer money. I don't shed blood,sweat, and tears, so I can just freely hand over my money to prop up the Government, who then turns it over freely to special interests groups.

    The Unions have this "F-U..PAY ME mentality" and that just isn't going to fly anymore. New Jersey, Ohio, and Wisconsin spoke extremely loud last election because their states were in the RED, because of Unions bleeding them dry.

    Big Government doesn't work, and no country in the civilized world has proven that big government works.

    Comment


    • #62
      Re: Verizon strike

      Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
      Can someone list what both sides are saying?

      The Verizon company wants this.....
      The moon.

      The Union employees wants this.....
      The moon. And the stars. Paid for by Verizon. With twelve breaks and a three hour lunch.
      "HONK if you've never seen a gun fired from a moving Harley"

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: Verizon strike

        Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
        Can someone list what both sides are saying?

        The Verizon company wants this.....

        The Union employees wants this....


        Thanks.


        J.C.
        The main sticking points involve health benefits. The unions oppose Verizon proposals to cut sickness disability benefits and reduce paid sick days for all workers, even eliminating any paid sick days for workers who have been with the company for less than two years.

        Verizon also wants to freeze worker pensions, force employees to pay more for health coverage, and reduce paid holidays.

        For its part, Verizon argues that it needs to cut costs in its landline division, which is losing business as consumers increasingly move toward wireless phones.

        In a statement Sunday, new Verizon CEO Lowell McAdam said, "We have arrived at the point where we must make additional hard decisions to address customer needs and the overall operating costs of the business."

        But the two unions argue that Verizon is doing well financially and can afford to pay the benefits sought by workers. In the second quarter, Verizon reported operating income of $4.9 billion, more than 10 times the operating income for the year-ago quarter, and net profit of $3.6 billion, up from $553 million a year earlier.

        However, Q2 revenue for the landline unit was $10.2 billion, down slightly from a year ago. Meanwhile, wireless revenue gained 10% from the year-ago quarter to $17.3 billion.

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: Verizon strike

          NEW YORK -(MarketWatch)- Verizon Communications Inc. /quotes/zigman/262341/quotes/nls/vz VZ -1.84% and its largest union traded accusations of foul play on the second day of a strike of 45,000 wireline workers, highlighting growing tension between the two sides after talks over a new contract broke down early Sunday.
          A Verizon spokesman said picketing laborers at some sites had prevented replacement workers from entering or exiting job sites and the company had found evidence of vandalism of equipment. The Communications Workers of America, meanwhile, said Verizon non-union employees had attempted to strike union workers with their vehicles.
          "This is a strike, there's going to be some conflict," said Bob Master, a legislative and political director for the CWA, which represents 35,000 striking Verizon workers. He said the union had instructed members to act legally and professionally on the picket lines.
          The two sides reached an impasse on Sunday over what the unions, including the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, said were an unreasonable set of demands. Verizon is seeking to freeze pensions, tie pay more closely to performance and to require workers to contribute at least $100 per month to their health-care plans.
          The two sides continued informal negotiations Monday; it wasn't clear when formal talks would resume.

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: Verizon strike

            Originally posted by Flux View Post
            The main sticking points involve health benefits. The unions oppose Verizon proposals to cut sickness disability benefits and reduce paid sick days for all workers, even eliminating any paid sick days for workers who have been with the company for less than two years.

            Verizon also wants to freeze worker pensions, force employees to pay more for health coverage, and reduce paid holidays.

            For its part, Verizon argues that it needs to cut costs in its landline division, which is losing business as consumers increasingly move toward wireless phones.

            In a statement Sunday, new Verizon CEO Lowell McAdam said, "We have arrived at the point where we must make additional hard decisions to address customer needs and the overall operating costs of the business."

            But the two unions argue that Verizon is doing well financially and can afford to pay the benefits sought by workers. In the second quarter, Verizon reported operating income of $4.9 billion, more than 10 times the operating income for the year-ago quarter, and net profit of $3.6 billion, up from $553 million a year earlier.

            However, Q2 revenue for the landline unit was $10.2 billion, down slightly from a year ago. Meanwhile, wireless revenue gained 10% from the year-ago quarter to $17.3 billion.
            Thanks. Franki, don't you have more detailed information about this?


            J.C.

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: Verizon strike

              Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
              If you are asking a serious question I will give you my honest answer. Not one bit! The American worker Union and nonUnion would literally have to work for the same slave wages to be competitive with their third world counterpart, unfortunately at those wages they would not be able to pay taxes or housing, food, utilities or anything else. I continue to be amazed by the misdirected anger and ignornace by some folks here. Most of the tradesmen here know what it cost for them to raise a family and they charge their customers accordingly. What would you consider a "realistic" wage that would be competitive with the folks living in communist china? All I know is the price of food is going up every single week, same with every other bill. In my opinion we need more working folks earning more and paying more to support our government and society, not less. The economy will not get better by taking money from the working class. Now if you and the other experts here really think it's a good idea to reduce salaries, do it across the board, lose tax revenue that runs the country which is already in trouble, then build up the tent cities because not many folks will be able to afford their homes. You won't need colleges or hospitals for the new slave class because the folks still earning a decent can hardly pay for the illegals they so furiously defend. I'll bet every President from Washington to Regan would be disgusted by the folks here who insult hard working Union folks while pushing to have our country mirror communist china!
              Great idea, see how far you will need to go in cutting wages to become competitive. You might want to find another market for all the cars and electronics because the working folks here won't be able to afford them either.

              I see a different approach but it takes guts and a stomach I don't exists here anymore. Start building factories and employ Americans to make what Americans consume. Pass legisaltion that makes the capitalists choke on their food, if they want to profit from the American consumer they had better make it here. You will pay more upfront, but you won't pay unemployment, your property values won't continue to fall and sorry you won't enrich communist china or that cess pool to the south of America. Now let's see how many good Americans can insult othe working Americans and praise communism. Frank
              The problems we are discussing here won't be solved by having or not having labor unions. Take the thought of having people make more so they can pay more to support our country and society. If all the illegals were helping pay this union issue would have a totally different facet to it altogether. That could be accomplished by creating a national sales tax and doing away with the current system. Then everyone would help pay, including tourists. Next, I work to feed my own family. Why do I have to help pay for lunch for everyone else's kid at school? What's next, do I have to buy them a skateboard and lowrider shorts? What we have is a society where about a third of us is paying all the expenses of ourselves plus one or two more people.

              So, if everyone was paying their own way and everyone was working (like in Communist China), we wouldn't have such a lopsided tax burden on the working class. Then in reality we could work for a lower wage while maintaining a decent lifestyle. And with our industrialization and the resourcefulness of our great nation we could be competitive.

              I really couldn't care less if I don't live an upper middle class lifestyle as long as I can have enough to eat every day. Sure, we all want to get ahead, but the economic mess we are in today all stems down to the fact that people a) weren't willing to live within their means, b) thought they deserved to live the high life, and c) wouldn't work for what they were worth because most people aren't worth the high life.

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: Verizon strike

                Sewer Rat,

                Just wait until that little gem called "Obama care" kicks in.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: Verizon strike

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: Verizon strike

                    Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                    Thanks. Franki, don't you have more detailed information about this?


                    J.C.
                    J.C., here is the CWA Union site where similar demands are listed. CWA 1101

                    The way these bargaining negotiations usually happen is that the contract runs out with the company refusing to sit down and bargain at all. Next the company comes out with a list of demands the Union will never agree to. The strike goes on for anywhere from a few days to as long as seven months and then the company and Union end up agreeing to something very similar to what was in place before the strike.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: Verizon strike

                      Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                      This guy is supposed to be an expert but I think he's a jerk. He also said it was good for America to have other countries produce our steel and other goods cheaply and sell them to us, by doing so they produce all the pollution and pay all the labor costs. Well on paper it sounds peachy but when you consider all the lost American jobs and tax revenue in reality it is a very bad idea. This little twerp is a full blown commie. Come on and use come common sense, you either employ Americans and pay them to work or kill our economy to make a few capitalists rich and promote the growth of a communist country. Your choice but at least sleep on it before selling us out.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: Verizon strike

                        One thing that I think is putting the "Wire Side" of the Union in a weaker position is how technology and consumer demand has changed. While there will always be hardware that has to be installed and serviced, it is quickly becoming a much smaller percentage. That, in turn, makes less people needed to run the whole thing, so there will be decreasing numbers in the union and less bargaining power.

                        I'm not saying that's good, bad, or whatever. Just looks like where things are heading.


                        J.C.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: Verizon strike

                          Verizon Wireless is a different company to Verizon Telecom. VZW is 49% overseas owned. VZT has two main businesses. There is the legacy POTS telephone service, and then there is the FIOS system. The POTS business is where the losses are occurring, and where the majority of the union guys work. FIOS is the future, but the older stuff is dragging down the investment in FIOS. VZ has been trying very hard do divest itself of the older assets, with three such sales in the last few years to other operators. Interestingly enough, two of these three have gone bankrupt after taking on these ex-VZ liabilities.

                          VZW is almost completely union free, and makes a lot of money. VZT does not, at least not in the POTS-only areas.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: Verizon strike

                            Originally posted by SewerRat View Post
                            The problems we are discussing here won't be solved by having or not having labor unions. Take the thought of having people make more so they can pay more to support our country and society. If all the illegals were helping pay this union issue would have a totally different facet to it altogether. That could be accomplished by creating a national sales tax and doing away with the current system. Then everyone would help pay, including tourists. Next, I work to feed my own family. Why do I have to help pay for lunch for everyone else's kid at school? What's next, do I have to buy them a skateboard and lowrider shorts? What we have is a society where about a third of us is paying all the expenses of ourselves plus one or two more people.

                            So, if everyone was paying their own way and everyone was working (like in Communist China), we wouldn't have such a lopsided tax burden on the working class. Then in reality we could work for a lower wage while maintaining a decent lifestyle. And with our industrialization and the resourcefulness of our great nation we could be competitive.

                            I really couldn't care less if I don't live an upper middle class lifestyle as long as I can have enough to eat every day. Sure, we all want to get ahead, but the economic mess we are in today all stems down to the fact that people a) weren't willing to live within their means, b) thought they deserved to live the high life, and c) wouldn't work for what they were worth because most people aren't worth the high life.
                            You bring up some good points and they make sense. I just think things are too far out of whack, where do you start and do we have the time? Most folks want to work and provide for their families, while doing right for their community and country, unfortunately that's not enough to make up for the government overspending and entitlements. We need to scale back on benefits across the board and we have to stop waging wars we can't fund. Sounds scary and it is. I was never looking for the high life, I just hoped that my work would sustain my family and now I don't know. There are too many Americans losing jobs, their families, housing, everything and our legislators are on vacation. I find that unacceptable. In my opinion, no one thing will fix our problems. We need brilliant ideas and fast moving wide reaching change. Those who think free trade, open markets, breaking Unions will solve things are in la la land.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: Verizon strike

                              Do you guys truely understand what you are debating.There are parts of this country that are forever changed.

                              I have guys that I have worked with in the trades for 20+ years calling me to dig ditches or ask me to vouch for extended unemployment cause they have no more coming to them.They are never going back out in the const. field,you know who has it locked.Capatalism..Realistic wage..Whatever the EFF you want to call it,millions are displaced and millions more are coming up the ladder to get YOU if your not already booted.

                              The economic failure,Border Tsunami and untethered international trade has removed a promise of the american dream for millions of blue collar citizens.If you think you and your kids can stay in front of it you are a fool.A college grad fool.The malignant disease is spreading throughout,it don't stop under you.
                              The country's people have to somehow coordinate to remove Politicians/Unions as they are in full.It is obvious they are out of control at the top.

                              There are some members that get very close to understanding the political intricacies in full.Then they realize it is unimaginable that there will ever be a change.
                              More and more people are going to get hurt.Can't the people see the instability.Or is it day in day out,grab as much as you can while the black storm builds energy right out on the edge of town.

                              This S*** is real and I ain't got no answer.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: Verizon strike

                                Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                                NEW YORK -(MarketWatch)- Verizon Communications Inc. /quotes/zigman/262341/quotes/nls/vz VZ -1.84% and its largest union traded accusations of foul play on the second day of a strike of 45,000 wireline workers, highlighting growing tension between the two sides after talks over a new contract broke down early Sunday.
                                A Verizon spokesman said picketing laborers at some sites had prevented replacement workers from entering or exiting job sites and the company had found evidence of vandalism of equipment. The Communications Workers of America, meanwhile, said Verizon non-union employees had attempted to strike union workers with their vehicles.
                                "This is a strike, there's going to be some conflict," said Bob Master, a legislative and political director for the CWA, which represents 35,000 striking Verizon workers. He said the union had instructed members to act legally and professionally on the picket lines.
                                The two sides reached an impasse on Sunday over what the unions, including the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, said were an unreasonable set of demands. Verizon is seeking to freeze pensions, tie pay more closely to performance and to require workers to contribute at least $100 per month to their health-care plans.
                                The two sides continued informal negotiations Monday; it wasn't clear when formal talks would resume.
                                Ha Ha, I think I've found the hidden clue that will clear all of this up.

                                Ya ready

                                Within this sentence is the answer;

                                Ready

                                Read carefully

                                Verizon is seeking to freeze pensions, tie pay more closely to performance and to require workers to contribute at least $100 per month to their health-care plans.

                                Did you see it

                                It's right there, in black and white

                                "tie (to) pay more closely to performance and require workers to contribute at lease $100.00 a month ($25.00 a week) to their health-care planes"

                                How many watching this thread would do almost anything to be able to have health care of at LEASE $25.00 a week????

                                And how many of you believe that you can keep your job if your performance is less than your counter parts???

                                This is why these unions guys get so defensive when you start questioning them about this sort of thing.

                                I've never worked in or for an union. WHY?? Because I am capable of speaking up for MYSELF. I am capable of negotiating for MYSELF. And if I fail to come to an agreement, I moved on. Never hurt me , not one little bit. In fact, each new opportunity proved to be better then the previous one.

                                And best of all.........I have pride that I worked hard and honest to advance my lifestyle to one that I am well pleased with and not have to work along side a $hit head that was an under performer making the same wage as me.

                                I think its called "Work Ethics"...which I've yet to meet a die hard union person had, or even knew what the term meant.

                                That's my 2ยข.....Take it or leave it!

                                Ron


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