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Brasscraft sweat stops and kissler lift spouts

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  • #16
    Re: Brasscraft sweat stops and kissler lift spouts

    Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
    FIP or sweat Flux?
    Neither, the compression x compression valves I'm talking about.

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    • #17
      Re: Brasscraft sweat stops and kissler lift spouts

      Originally posted by Flux View Post
      Neither, the compression x compression valves I'm talking about.
      I believe he was asking which you all prefer to use as to not get tar and feathered and run out of town
      ''Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" Benjamin Franklin

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      • #18
        Re: Brasscraft sweat stops and kissler lift spouts

        Originally posted by OLD1 View Post
        I believe he was asking which you all prefer to use as to not get tar and feathered and run out of town
        Here it's all copper sweat x compression except for the brand new construction they are doing now with pex & cpvc.

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        • #19
          Re: Brasscraft sweat stops and kissler lift spouts

          Originally posted by Flux View Post
          Neither, the compression x compression valves I'm talking about.
          My Bad

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          • #20
            Re: Brasscraft sweat stops and kissler lift spouts

            Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
            Many in their right mind would install a sweat stop vs. a compression stop. Place I used to work used all compression stops. And yes, we knew the right & wrong things to do installing them.

            After installation and on startup, we would bring whatever structure we were working on up sloooowly. Then up to full pressure. Check every stop, drain,etc. Go back to the truck and let it sit for about 15 minutes. Then go back in and check all the stops, packing nuts, drains, etc. Correct any weepers or drain leaks. Wait another 15 minutes or so. Check. All good throughout. Thought everything was cool checking it this good.

            Then we talked to the repair side of the shop. Didn't always see them. They were sent out for any punch-list that may come up. They would find a compression stop on the stub side weeping often. I don't know the % but it was enough that they noted it.

            Didn't matter who was installing them or the brand. I recall Brasscraft having the best tolerances and less problems for some reason. Fluidyne and I think A.Y. McDonald were also used and a weeper would show up now and again.

            Rick, I know you'll say you've installed 100,000 with no issue. Were you in contact later with many of them after startup & running days later? Or talk to anyone that had to punch-list a building later on?

            Of the 1,000's of compression stops that were installed at the shop I was at, there was enough of a percentage (regardless of brand or installer) that we switched to sweat stops. And I honestly don't recall a problem after that. Not one.


            J.C.
            jc. when i officially took over as the finish foreman while still an apprentice, they laid of the punch list/ putty wagon old timer that had a full time job. i would probably see 1 service call every couple of weeks.

            the biggest issue with compression was if the ruff crew didn't stub out far enough and i had to extend the stub. we used copper bullets 95% of the time. every now and then a copper cap.

            i would prep the stops with bowl wax on the threads. that's all that was needed to allow for a proper tightening of the nut.

            the only compression stops i ever had an issue with were washing machine bibbs that were designed with a tapered male thread that allowed ips connection and came with a nut and ferrule for a compression connection. when you overtightened they could split. needless to say, i had the purchasing dept. get rid of that style and go all compression.

            never had a compression blow off.

            even installed a compression stop with the water turned on and i missed a ice maker on my walk through. i figured there was air in the line and by the time i cut the copper and slid on the stop and tightened, i was barely wet.

            i always walked the job when turning on the water as the painters and drywallers would always open a stop to get water.

            brasscraft and eastman were our stops on 99% of the work. ips and brass nipples on spec. jobs like schools and office complexes.

            but remember that a brass nipple and drop ear 90 or brass tee, couldn't be tested in the wall after trimming out. so basically the risk was that you could over tighten the nipple and crack the fitting, insulation fell over the thread and you just got insulation in the pipe.

            but soldering a stop onto a stub never happened in my career. even the supply houses out here rarely stock a sweat angle stop. just no call for them.

            i was on the phone with a mail order supply house this morning and they were telling me about their product lines. the guy had no idea that the west coast was 1/2'' comp x 1/2'' slip joint. all he was use to was 1/2'' comp x 3/8'' comp. i even asked him about sweat stops and his answer was they sit on the shelf. but it's the only stop they sell that still has a brass stem except for 1/4 turns.

            now with over 15 years of just service, i'm still waiting to come across a house or a commercial building with sweat stops.

            maybe it's a california thing

            but tell me how many stops could 1 plumber install on a job site with 2 or more floors in a day and then test them out. what about dripping water that doesn't drain? what about water soluble flux that the whole country is suppose to use. tell me what you do to solder with water still dripping

            then tell me why anyone would think of soldering on a stop. heck i don't solder on hose bibbs anymore.

            400 to what 50 on a perfect day

            rick.
            phoebe it is

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            • #21
              Re: Brasscraft sweat stops and kissler lift spouts

              Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
              My Bad
              Yea around here, Plumbers are quick to use the word "hack" on certain things, and compression x compression valves for toilets and sinks is one of them.

              The other biggie is flex hoses for water heaters...but we understand why you guys have to use them.

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              • #22
                Re: Brasscraft sweat stops and kissler lift spouts

                Originally posted by TheMaster
                I think he was refering that people around his area think hacks use compression x compression stops. I'll use whatever the deadbeat wants to pay me for that doesn't leak. Hows that?

                To which I reply that is silliness...except for the new construction where they are using pex and cpvc..Personally I could give a shi* what you use to get what you need to get outta your deadbeat customers.Kinda ranks right up ther with using "bag traps"
                ''Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" Benjamin Franklin

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                • #23
                  Re: Brasscraft sweat stops and kissler lift spouts

                  I can kinda' figure all of the speeds vs. costs regarding sweat against compression, press against solder, etc. without being asked. Don't mean that to be smartazzy.

                  We were more concerned with quality and callbacks vs. speed & sweat stops corrected it without doubt. Just stuck to it myself. Of course now everything is just PEX. Squeeze and run.

                  Need to start a summer camp and get the kids to do the finishes now. Get their parents to pay me to let them work at the "Fantasy Plumber Camp".


                  J.C.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Brasscraft sweat stops and kissler lift spouts

                    Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                    i was on the phone with a mail order supply house this morning and they were telling me about their product lines. the guy had no idea that the west coast was 1/2'' comp x 1/2'' slip joint. all he was use to was 1/2'' comp x 3/8'' comp..
                    Here it's 1/2" copper sweat x 3/8 compression.

                    Once in a blue moon I'll run into a 1/2" copper sweat x 1/2" compression...and that's when the curse words start flying.

                    99% is all brass craft.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Brasscraft sweat stops and kissler lift spouts

                      And to throw a twist in things:

                      Rick has stated that he has successfully installed 1,000's of compression stops with "bowl wax" and I believe him.
                      Others state to "dope both sides". And I believe they have had success as well.
                      Seen others wrap the ferrule in teflon.
                      Others use teflon and dope.

                      Now, it's been awhile since I've read the manufacturers directions on the installation of their stops. But I recall them saying "only a light drop of oil" is needed on threads.

                      So guess what, all of the successful methods listed above will make you completely liable if you have a problem that causes water damage.

                      Think about it.


                      J.C.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Brasscraft sweat stops and kissler lift spouts

                        Sure..Had someone try and tell me the drop of oil thing .And I looked him in the eye and held up my teflon pipe dope and said "From my cold dead hands"
                        ''Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" Benjamin Franklin

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                        • #27
                          Re: Brasscraft sweat stops and kissler lift spouts

                          Originally posted by TheMaster
                          Teflon is acceptable. Its used for installing compression stops on cpvc. I personally will not install a compression stop on cpvc.
                          agreed ..thats why they make glue ons for cpvc
                          ''Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" Benjamin Franklin

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Brasscraft sweat stops and kissler lift spouts

                            Originally posted by TheMaster
                            Teflon is acceptable. Its used for installing compression stops on cpvc. I personally will not install a compression stop on cpvc.
                            Me either. I honestly didn't even know it was done until I read it here. Just thought everybody used the CPVC ones.

                            No compression for me. Makes me veeerrry nervous. CPVC already makes me nervous enough.


                            J.C.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Brasscraft sweat stops and kissler lift spouts

                              Yep , have gone back on many compression valves that have had ferruls bite into the cpvc..time bombs..That will be the next poly type of recall
                              Last edited by OLD1; 08-11-2011, 10:59 PM. Reason: sp
                              ''Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" Benjamin Franklin

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Brasscraft sweat stops and kissler lift spouts

                                Originally posted by TheMaster
                                Ok Rick your entitled to your opinion that its not a nice finish but in a 65,000 foreclosure no one gives two sh$ts if its a nice finish and they dont care of you have alot of tools......LOL Ok?

                                I'm so sorry but a chrome over casing is possible with a sweat on stop kit. Not the ones I have for sale but they are available. Oh no Rick you better go check for yourself!!! LOL
                                yes, i used them for the thousands of flushometers i've installed. but those were mip adapters and the estucion had the clearance to slide them in and out. but on a true sweat valve you would need an over sized estucion to slide them back into the wall.

                                by the way, how did you acquire so many sweat stops? new old stock that just sat on the supply houses shelves

                                when i go to the supply house tomorrow, i'll have them run an inventory on hand in their 18 privately owned branches. all in calif.

                                rick.
                                phoebe it is

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