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Brasscraft sweat stops and kissler lift spouts

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  • Brasscraft sweat stops and kissler lift spouts

    I decided to delete my posts.
    Last edited by TheMaster; 09-25-2011, 11:16 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Brasscraft sweat stops and kissler lift spouts

    out of the 100,000 + stops i've installed over 37 years, who in the right mind would choose to solder on an angle stop

    show me 1 person that can solder on a valve next to the wall and chrome estucion without burning it and do this while the water is still draining from a multi-unit building.

    90 % of my new work was compression stops and 10% was ips.

    now on service it's more like 75% compression and 25% ips.

    hose bibbs were usually installed on ruff and those were typically soldered on

    today all i use are ips bibbs.

    you might just get close to scrap value for those stops.

    rick.
    phoebe it is

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Brasscraft sweat stops and kissler lift spouts

      Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
      out of the 100,000 + stops i've installed over 37 years, who in the right mind would choose to solder on an angle stop:confusedold:

      show me 1 person that can solder on a valve next to the wall and chrome estucion without burning it and do this while the water is still draining from a multi-unit building.

      90 % of my new work was compression stops and 10% was ips.

      now on service it's more like 75% compression and 25% ips.

      hose bibbs were usually installed on ruff and those were typically soldered on

      today all i use are ips bibbs.

      you might just get close to scrap value for those stops.

      rick.
      Many in their right mind would install a sweat stop vs. a compression stop. Place I used to work used all compression stops. And yes, we knew the right & wrong things to do installing them.

      After installation and on startup, we would bring whatever structure we were working on up sloooowly. Then up to full pressure. Check every stop, drain,etc. Go back to the truck and let it sit for about 15 minutes. Then go back in and check all the stops, packing nuts, drains, etc. Correct any weepers or drain leaks. Wait another 15 minutes or so. Check. All good throughout. Thought everything was cool checking it this good.

      Then we talked to the repair side of the shop. Didn't always see them. They were sent out for any punch-list that may come up. They would find a compression stop on the stub side weeping often. I don't know the % but it was enough that they noted it.

      Didn't matter who was installing them or the brand. I recall Brasscraft having the best tolerances and less problems for some reason. Fluidyne and I think A.Y. McDonald were also used and a weeper would show up now and again.

      Rick, I know you'll say you've installed 100,000 with no issue. Were you in contact later with many of them after startup & running days later? Or talk to anyone that had to punch-list a building later on?

      Of the 1,000's of compression stops that were installed at the shop I was at, there was enough of a percentage (regardless of brand or installer) that we switched to sweat stops. And I honestly don't recall a problem after that. Not one.


      J.C.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Brasscraft sweat stops and kissler lift spouts

        Sorry I have to agree with Rick...Why would you want to solder an angle valve ..IMO you are not only compromising the valve seats , washers, etc with a torch but you don't need a torch when installing compression valves..I bet you can't wait to unload those ..Probably won't happen here though..as we are plumbers ..Not trying to bash but no thanks
        ''Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" Benjamin Franklin

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Brasscraft sweat stops and kissler lift spouts

          Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
          Many in their right mind would install a sweat stop vs. a compression stop. Place I used to work used all compression stops. And yes, we knew the right & wrong things to do installing them.

          After installation and on startup, we would bring whatever structure we were working on up sloooowly. Then up to full pressure. Check every stop, drain,etc. Go back to the truck and let it sit for about 15 minutes. Then go back in and check all the stops, packing nuts, drains, etc. Correct any weepers or drain leaks. Wait another 15 minutes or so. Check. All good throughout. Thought everything was cool checking it this good.

          Then we talked to the repair side of the shop. Didn't always see them. They were sent out for any punch-list that may come up. They would find a compression stop on the stub side weeping often. I don't know the % but it was enough that they noted it.

          Didn't matter who was installing them or the brand. I recall Brasscraft having the best tolerances and less problems for some reason. Fluidyne and I think A.Y. McDonald were also used and a weeper would show up now and again.

          Rick, I know you'll say you've installed 100,000 with no issue. Were you in contact later with many of them after startup & running days later? Or talk to anyone that had to punch-list a building later on?

          Of the 1,000's of compression stops that were installed at the shop I was at, there was enough of a percentage (regardless of brand or installer) that we switched to sweat stops. And I honestly don't recall a problem after that. Not one.


          J.C.

          Probably because who ever was installing them wasn't properly doping ..behind and in front of the ferrules..yes, something as simple as applying the proper pipe dope does a lot in leak avoidance
          ''Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" Benjamin Franklin

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Brasscraft sweat stops and kissler lift spouts

            Originally posted by OLD1 View Post
            Probably because who ever was installing them wasn't properly doping ..behind and in front of the ferrules..yes, something as simple as applying the proper pipe dope does a lot in leak avoidance
            Respectfully, third sentence of my post.

            Thanks.


            J.C.
            Last edited by BobsPlumbing; 08-11-2011, 10:37 PM. Reason: Wrong Sentence! :)

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Brasscraft sweat stops and kissler lift spouts

              Originally posted by TheMaster
              And just how does one compromise "the valve seat" on a brasscraft swt on stop? And I guess you realize that you can take the stem out of the valve dont ya? But truthfully if you know how to solder its not a problem to leave it together.

              LOL I'm waiting on your answer mr plumber.
              I know you can remove the stem out of the valve..but honestly why play all that? If you can properly solder great ..I know I can..Others might get a bit carried away with their heat and then what...
              ''Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" Benjamin Franklin

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Brasscraft sweat stops and kissler lift spouts

                Originally posted by TheMaster
                Lesson for the day..........

                The "seat" is brass and soldering on the stop will not "compromise" it in any way. I back that with a warranty too.......if anyone buys the stops and damages the 'seat" with their torch I will refund their money.

                lesson #2.....if your gonna "hate" know what your hating on.

                No "hating" just know that there are more effecient ways of doing things..ie.dragging a torch into a job to install angle stops
                ''Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" Benjamin Franklin

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Brasscraft sweat stops and kissler lift spouts

                  Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                  out of the 100,000 + stops i've installed over 37 years, who in the right mind would choose to solder on an angle stop

                  show me 1 person that can solder on a valve next to the wall and chrome estucion without burning it and do this while the water is still draining from a multi-unit building. .
                  I use these valves all the time, and still continue to use them.

                  Nobody in their right mind is going to try and solder these vales close to the wall with water still running out of them.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Brasscraft sweat stops and kissler lift spouts

                    Originally posted by TheMaster
                    Hey Rick!!!! I sold 3 cases of them last year on Ebay. I'll do the same with these!!!! They are used under k-sinks,vanity sinks etc all the time. The copper extends out from the wall about 3" so soldering is not an issue.......we are plumbers!
                    3'' beyond the estucion is not a nice finish, unless you use chrome cover casing. which would be impossible with a sweat stop. might fly for a low cost apartment, but not for anything i consider as a home or commercial. all stops butted against a chrome estucion or polished brass stop and estucion.

                    rick.
                    phoebe it is

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Brasscraft sweat stops and kissler lift spouts

                      For this particular application for ease of installation and service and replacement I would go with compression..For strength and longevity I would def. go with a solder joint over compression.Again just not in this application for me ..if that makes sense ....I am east cost though and you know we hold ourselves to a much higher standard
                      ''Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" Benjamin Franklin

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Brasscraft sweat stops and kissler lift spouts

                        Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                        3'' beyond the estucion is not a nice finish, unless you use chrome cover casing. which would be impossible with a sweat stop. might fly for a low cost apartment, but not for anything i consider as a home or commercial. all stops butted against a chrome estucion or polished brass stop and estucion.

                        rick.
                        Interesting. I've heard you and Mark mention this way of finishing the stops. Here, no-one ever mentions any exposed copper from escutcheon to stop as being a "trash finish" or cutting a corner.

                        Just not thought of for whatever reason. Sounds like ya'll do have a higher standard geared toward the look at that point.

                        Most that is done here in the past has been a chrome nipple on screw pipe. Or the stubout is tinned but not cut off real short.

                        I know there are ferrule pullers and unsweating, but it sure seems more serviceable for the long-term with what I'm sure you would refer to as a long/unfinished stubout.


                        J.C.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Brasscraft sweat stops and kissler lift spouts

                          Here it's looked down upon from our peers, if you use compression valves for toilet's or lav's.

                          The four letter "H" word wants to come out of someone's mouth here with stuff like that.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Brasscraft sweat stops and kissler lift spouts

                            Originally posted by Flux View Post
                            Here it's looked down upon from our peers, if you use compression valves for toilet's or lav's.

                            The four letter "H" word wants to come out of someone's mouth here with stuff like that.
                            FIP or sweat Flux?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Brasscraft sweat stops and kissler lift spouts

                              Originally posted by Flux View Post
                              Here it's looked down upon from our peers, if you use compression valves for toilet's or lav's.

                              The four letter "H" word wants to come out of someone's mouth here with stuff like that.
                              Now that's funny..
                              ''Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" Benjamin Franklin

                              Comment

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