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  • This smells like total BS to me

    Has the author of this article ever shopped at Wal Mart?

    'Made in China' Goods Only Small Sliver of U.S. Consumption - Yahoo! News

  • #2
    Re: This smells like total BS to me

    Not sure what shopping at Walmart has to do with anything unless you're saying that everything sold there is Made in China which of course would not be correct. The author was only pointing out what percentage of goods sold in the USA were actually made in China. There are dozens of other countries also selling their goods here but for some reason China always bears the brunt of the criticism, used to be Japan.
    ================================================== ====
    ~~Don't worry about old age; it doesn't last that long.

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    • #3
      Re: This smells like total BS to me

      My point is the 2.7% is a wee bit low. I would like to know how they came up with it.

      From my personal experience I go out of the way to purchase goods not made in China. I still end up buying approx. 25-35% of Chinese made goods.
      Last edited by James P; 08-13-2011, 08:08 AM. Reason: after thought

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      • #4
        Re: This smells like total BS to me

        OK then I'll say it,
        Wall Mart represents the majority of what this country buys.
        Over 90%,I'll say 95 is not made in the U.S.

        China 60%,thailand,indonesia,india will make up the rest.

        Now if the B***SH*****R'S want to play the overall spending of the average consumer with mortgage,car,food,ect.

        AHHH,Whatever it's just another load of.....

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        • #5
          Re: This smells like total BS to me

          Carhardt work clothes used to be made in the USA, now the labels say china or mexico. In my opinion we cannot sustain our economy which is sinking like a rock if our consumer dollars keep leaving the country never to return. Regarding food, check your labels, frozen shrimp from thailand, canned and jarred goods from china. Regarding cars, parts made outside the USA also take from our economy. We are in trouble....

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          • #6
            Re: This smells like total BS to me

            This is a pretty good look at the WalMart-China partnership of the time. I watched it some time ago. I believe the story states that 87% of product carried by the store is manufactured in China at the time of the story. (Memory )

            Is Wal-Mart Good For America? | FRONTLINE | PBS


            J.C.

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            • #7
              Re: This smells like total BS to me

              Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
              OK then I'll say it,
              Wall Mart represents the majority of what this country buys.
              Over 90%,I'll say 95 is not made in the U.S.

              China 60%,thailand,indonesia,india will make up the rest.

              Now if the B***SH*****R'S want to play the overall spending of the average consumer with mortgage,car,food,ect.

              AHHH,Whatever it's just another load of.....
              Of course you can say that their finding are incorrect if you change the rules as to how those findings are arrived at.............after the fact.
              ================================================== ====
              ~~Don't worry about old age; it doesn't last that long.

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              • #8
                Re: This smells like total BS to me

                WalMart is relevant because it is the largest retailer in the US, specializing in low to mid grade consumer items and thus representing a good cross section of what the US public is spending its money on.

                I agree that the numbers are total BS. The total US household consumer final expeditures come to about $10T, which includes everything - food, housing, cars, energy, etc. China imports about $365B. Most all of this is consumer goods. Most people's expenditures are completely dominated by housing, food, energy, etc. So this is a meaningless number. But even at that, the number appears to be more like 3.7%. Such statistics are not relevant to anything, they are just spin. Fact is, you need look no further than the trade balance statistics.

                Although, you should keep in mind that, as we all know, China holds the Yuan artificially low relative to the dollar to make Chinese goods cheaper in the US. Since the trade stats are compiled in US dollars, it actually understates the valuation of Chinese imports.

                Note that the article cites a source in the Federal Reserve, which means "nonsense". These are the same people that have been telling us that the economy is in a recovery.

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                • #9
                  Re: This smells like total BS to me

                  You also might consider that much of our complaint is based on "Made in China" vs "Made in U.S.A." by traditionally American companies like Carhardt, Stanley Black and Decker, Ridgid, and thousands of others. We perceive that the dollars are going out and that none of them are coming back. While that may be partially true with regards to out jobs, I think we have to ask, "If it's an American company... and they move our jobs to China then the reason is that somebody here is making a profit on that move, aren't they?"

                  Once again, it would appear that it is the rich that increases it's profits by wasting the American worker. I think it has been mentioned many times that "corporations" are in the business to make as much money as they can. So if corporations (those brand names that we know and love) are now employing the Chinese instead of the Americans, it is to increase the profits of their executives and their principle stockholders. And, they are doing it by sacrifising you and me.

                  So, why are we mad at the Chinese, instead of being mad at the boss who just tossed you and me on the garbage heap?

                  CWS

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                  • #10
                    Re: This smells like total BS to me

                    Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
                    You also might consider that much of our complaint is based on "Made in China" vs "Made in U.S.A." by traditionally American companies like Carhardt, Stanley Black and Decker, Ridgid, and thousands of others. We perceive that the dollars are going out and that none of them are coming back. While that may be partially true with regards to out jobs, I think we have to ask, "If it's an American company... and they move our jobs to China then the reason is that somebody here is making a profit on that move, aren't they?"

                    Once again, it would appear that it is the rich that increases it's profits by wasting the American worker. I think it has been mentioned many times that "corporations" are in the business to make as much money as they can. So if corporations (those brand names that we know and love) are now employing the Chinese instead of the Americans, it is to increase the profits of their executives and their principle stockholders. And, they are doing it by sacrifising you and me.

                    So, why are we mad at the Chinese, instead of being mad at the boss who just tossed you and me on the garbage heap?

                    CWS
                    I keep saying we are seeing the results of capitalism evolving to the point of killing it's consumer base. The move to find the cheapest supplies, cheapest labor and least government oversight makes perfect sense from a business standpoint. Well it makes perfect sense until you factor in making a communist country more powerful through your business decisions. It makes perfect sense until you figure out that your have reduced the income and spending power of so many of your consumers that you ultimately hurt your business. In my opinion the smarter thing to do would be to find a way to accept making less profit so that you can employ and sustain your consumer base. Maybe I'm wrong so plese someone correct me, how many of those third world workers making the electronics and other consumer goods we purchase can afford what they produce? How about $50 Carhardtt pants or shirts? Honestly, I can't afford them either.

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                    • #11
                      Re: This smells like total BS to me

                      Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
                      You also might consider that much of our complaint is based on "Made in China" vs "Made in U.S.A." by traditionally American companies like Carhardt, Stanley Black and Decker, Ridgid, and thousands of others. We perceive that the dollars are going out and that none of them are coming back. While that may be partially true with regards to out jobs, I think we have to ask, "If it's an American company... and they move our jobs to China then the reason is that somebody here is making a profit on that move, aren't they?"

                      Once again, it would appear that it is the rich that increases it's profits by wasting the American worker. I think it has been mentioned many times that "corporations" are in the business to make as much money as they can. So if corporations (those brand names that we know and love) are now employing the Chinese instead of the Americans, it is to increase the profits of their executives and their principle stockholders. And, they are doing it by sacrifising you and me.

                      So, why are we mad at the Chinese, instead of being mad at the boss who just tossed you and me on the garbage heap?

                      CWS
                      First of all, no one has ever claimed that there is no profit taken on Chinese imports by US firms and individuals. That doesn't mitigate the fact (and it is a fact) that the dollars leaving the US due to trade are not coming back. When the trade balance is negative, that means that more dollars are leaving than are coming in. The US has had a negative trade balance for 40 straight years. It seems pretty clear after 40 years of this that the trade deficit is chronic, no? The dollars aren't coming back.

                      Of course American companies that outsource or offshore production are making a profit. That's not at issue. What is at issue is that the profit is taken at the expense of the American consumer market, benefits the corporation and China, but does not benefit American industry and therefore not the American worker. I don't see why this is a difficult concept.

                      No one is "mad" at the Chinese. That seems to keep coming up, but I don't ever see anyone bashing Asians. China doies a good job in many ways, particularly in terms of making it very easy for industry to start and grow in China. However, they are not choir boys in all this. The are overtly maipulating trade to put US companies and US domestic production at a severe disadvantage. The Chinese Government is manipulating their currency by pegging it to the dollar at a very low rate (another fact). This causes Chinese goods to be available in the US at artificially cheap prices, far below what their actual cost would be if their currency was allowed to float. Additionally, China, being communist, also controls the wages and profits of its industry, also helping to make Chinese imports cheap here in the US. They do this to undercut US competition and either drive US industry out of business, or force US industry to offshore production to them. It's an age-old strategy, very simple, and it's working. The day is fast approaching when Chinese goods will NOT be cheap. They are actively trying to replace the dollar as the world's reserve currency. And their monetary policies are creating king-sized inflation in China. They are afraid of civil unrest, and are going to be forced to take some steps economically to ease their problems at home, steps that will increase the prices we pay for Chinese stuff. But it won't matter... the US consumer goods industry has more or less all offshored, and with our own severe economic problems, industry is now looking at 1.3B Chinese consumers as the growth market... not the US.

                      Now, if an American company tried to undercut its competition by dumping goods at below cost, that would be illegal. US trade laws specifically prohibit dumping for purposes of unfair competitive advantage and/or to damage your competition unfairly. It's not a case of being "mad", except perhaps at the US Government for allowing this nonsense to continue AT OUR, WE THE PEOPLE'S, EXPENSE.

                      What in this scenario is the boss doing that you construe as throwing you on the garbage heap? They are doing their job. THe United States is allegedly a capitalist system. Private industry and the boss you blame are doing exactly what they are being paid to do. The only party that has tossed the American worker onto the garbage heap is the US Government, who has created a domestic business climate that is uncompetitive, and has become so beholdin' to the Chinese that they are actually afraid of tickiing them off by forcing a level playing field.
                      Last edited by Andy_M; 08-15-2011, 09:19 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Re: This smells like total BS to me

                        Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                        I keep saying we are seeing the results of capitalism evolving to the point of killing it's consumer base. The move to find the cheapest supplies, cheapest labor and least government oversight makes perfect sense from a business standpoint. Well it makes perfect sense until you factor in making a communist country more powerful through your business decisions. It makes perfect sense until you figure out that your have reduced the income and spending power of so many of your consumers that you ultimately hurt your business. In my opinion the smarter thing to do would be to find a way to accept making less profit so that you can employ and sustain your consumer base. Maybe I'm wrong so plese someone correct me, how many of those third world workers making the electronics and other consumer goods we purchase can afford what they produce? How about $50 Carhardtt pants or shirts? Honestly, I can't afford them either.
                        Frank, you have to understand that the communist Government of China is manipulating the wages of its workers to keep eport prices low AND to keep their people from consuming their own Chinese production. The reason is simple. They WANT to export everthing they make, at the lowest possible price, to undercut their competition and control the market. It's not a new strategy. You price low to win market share and drive your competition out of business.

                        .....and then you raise prices. The CHinese have no intention of remaining a poor society. They are communists, not idiots. After they gain market share and effectively eliminate US industry, which is really it's only viable competitor, wages and standards of living in China will increase. Bet on it. Why would they want to remain poor? Do we really think that they WANT us all to have ipods and flat screens for cheap while their own people have nothing? It's just a matter of patience and strategy. Both these things are not well understood or practiced in the United States.

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                        • #13
                          Re: This smells like total BS to me

                          Originally posted by Andy_M View Post
                          Frank, you have to understand that the communist Government of China is manipulating the wages of its workers to keep eport prices low AND to keep their people from consuming their own Chinese production. The reason is simple. They WANT to export everthing they make, at the lowest possible price, to undercut their competition and control the market. It's not a new strategy. You price low to win market share and drive your competition out of business.

                          .....and then you raise prices. The CHinese have no intention of remaining a poor society. They are communists, not idiots. After they gain market share and effectively eliminate US industry, which is really it's only viable competitor, wages and standards of living in China will increase. Bet on it. Why would they want to remain poor? Do we really think that they WANT us all to have ipods and flat screens for cheap while their own people have nothing? It's just a matter of patience and strategy. Both these things are not well understood or practiced in the United States.
                          Andy, I respect your opinion on what china plans for the future but disagree. They will grow more powerful as a nation but I think their government plans to keep them right where they have them. Why allow them to grow drunk on useless consumer goods? Have the ipods, cell pohnes and other consumer electronics saved our economy? Our legislators don't care about us or our country, or else they would have enacted some legislation to address the trade deficit. Rewrite the trade laws if necessary! The system is broken.

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                          • #14
                            Re: This smells like total BS to me

                            Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                            Andy, I respect your opinion on what china plans for the future but disagree. They will grow more powerful as a nation but I think their government plans to keep them right where they have them. Why allow them to grow drunk on useless consumer goods? Have the ipods, cell pohnes and other consumer electronics saved our economy? Our legislators don't care about us or our country, or else they would have enacted some legislation to address the trade deficit. Rewrite the trade laws if necessary! The system is broken.
                            Frank, I believe that you're going to see prices for Chinese goods start to rise substantially, and within the next 3 years. China is facing severe inflation, due to the massive influx of dollars and the fact that they have to print money by the bushel to keep the Yuan cheap relative to the dollar. They also more or less have to continue to buy US debt so they won't have to convert some of the dollars, what else can they put dollars into that will show a return? My guess is that China will have to let the Yuan rise and they are going to have to improve the standard of living very soon to avoid civil unrest, which is a real threat there. It is a totalitarian state and therefore they won't let their society succumb to anything like the excess consumerism that has sunk the US and also Japan... but I'm pretty sure that they are going to raise prices and allow the Chinese consumer market to develop. The US and European markets are in dramatic decline; they've milked those two nearly dry. Their growth requires that they allow a rise in domestic consumption. THeir huge 1.3B population has essentially nothing and thus represents a potentially huge market that they must have to promote their continued growth. That's my view, time will tell how close or far it ends up being.

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                            • #15
                              Re: This smells like total BS to me

                              Well Andy, I respectfully disagree.

                              You don't have to read very much on this forum to see that many of us blame the Chinese. It's "Chinese Junk" and "Chinese slave-labor" and it's a common theme. It used to be Japan. If you don't see that, then I guess there's not much discussion about it.

                              Regarding my "garbage heap" comment, I'll stand behind that too. You and I see things considerably different in this respect, though I agree with you that it is the job of corporations and bosses to ensure profitability. But how much and when is enough, enough? Perhaps you feel that there is no limit or no liability or responsibility to be considered in that quest. Perhaps things in California are significantly different than they are here.

                              But here, I see lots of abandoned buildings, left behind as a result of poor industrial leadership and planning. I see factories closed and jobs squandered, not by loss, but by management choice. Jobs are gone and yet those ex-workers and their decendants are left to pick up the costs of that abandonment. We're left with the pollution and broken promises that were given to our workers and our local governments, which reduced taxes and built infrastructure to attract or keep those businesses.

                              I've seen first hand with my ex-employer who took $10 million in taxpayer money as an incentive grant to expand the business in our state and on the day they grasped the check, they laid off 140 workers in direct violation of the Federal "older workers protection act". Neither the Republican governments in Albany or Washington showed any concern. I saw the two major industries in my area move major product lines to China and to India and at least in the case of my company, it was against the concerns of Asian Sales Engineers who were telling us that the "Pacific Rim" wanted "Made in America". I've seen us let go top-notch engineers and designers, just because we could further our profits. And, I've seem them brag about the $80 million they could save just for "faking" the corporate HQ at a foreign address.

                              There once was a time in this country when such actions might well have been considered treason or at least "unpatriotic". But of course, our new America is one of "corporate" greed. They have their own party and they now have most of us believing that what is right for them, is right for us. Unfortunately there are all too many of us who believe that. Just on the news tonight, I see the amount of corporate contributions handed out a majority of the "twelve" who are going to save us another $1.5 Trillion. I am sure we can all count them to not take any of those cost cuts at the expense of these corporate contributers. We'll cut whatever is necessary from the backs of the poor and the middle class and we'll force a few thousand more under the poverty line long before we touch a dime of "corporate" money. But as you infer, corporations don't do anything illegal, they do what they are supposed to do... maximize their profits, even if it means scuttling the country and the workers that gave them their existance.

                              CWS

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