Announcement

Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.

help thy neighbor

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Re: help thy neighbor

    Originally posted by tailgunner View Post
    If you ever feel a "buzz" on a water main, that is usually a sign that the service entrance neutral has a problem somewhere. Meaning the unbalanced load is going to the grounding conductors instead. I remmeber one service call where a furnace tech was getting shocked a few times, and witnessed sparts where the EMT connects to the unit. Sure enough, the neutral conductors in the electrical meter rotted away, effectively turning the waterpipe bond into the neutral. Typically when that happens, the waterpipe bond turns green, a symptom that is readily visable, especially when the rest of the piping looks clean.
    So how do you solve this problem?
    Buy cheap, buy twice.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: help thy neighbor

      i know about the house as i did a home inspection 4 years ago when he was in escrow with it.

      don't know about your electrical issues, but out here we're not on a farm with motors and bad grounds.

      in all the years of plumbing only 1 time have i ever been exposed to an issue with current. and that was a 1920's home with a lot of diy work done by the owner.

      there are multiple sources of ground protection on not only this house but on any modern home.

      i got to now call him to warn him about lightning that might strike when all the stars are aligned.

      rick.
      phoebe it is

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: help thy neighbor

        Originally posted by gear junkie View Post
        So how do you solve this problem?
        I call the power company 1st. They come out and determine if the problem is their problem or the house has a problem. Most of the time its the house but not always. Several times it has been the power companies problem.

        Once I was replacing an electric water heater. I turned the breaker off and checked the hots and they were dead. When I disconnected the wires and pulled them out of the old heater I saw a bad arc from the wires being pulled. I could rub the ground on the heater jacket and it would arc. I went and turned all the power off to the house at the main breaker in the panel. It still was arcing. I called an electrician and he told me not to touch anything else in the house and to call the power company. The power company came out and repaired somthing out on the pole in front of the house.

        The pole was feeding power back to the house using the house as its ground.

        I'm no electrician but I know what I've seen and know it can kill you if the conditions are right. I use jumper cables when I cut copper and have posted pics of me doing so.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: help thy neighbor

          Some of the possible recourses for Residential-Generated "Stray Voltage" are:
          1) Increase the Neutral wire size to the Source, reducing its resistance,
          2) Provide a better balancing of loads between energized buses (to reduce Neutral Current),
          3) Reduce the number of sources fed from 120V, and increase those fed from 240V (to reduce Neutral Current),
          4) Bring the Source Transformer closer to the point of use (to reduce Neutral wire resistance by reducing its length),
          5) Periodically inspect ALL connections for snugness and integrity (especially the Neutral) at least every 10 years,
          6) Eliminate the use of the interconnected Metallic Water Piping as a "shared" Grounding Point, yet retain local grounding for lightning protection.

          While these may appear simplistic, there are specific additional details that need to be observed for each alternative, to ensure a safe application.

          Some of the possible recourses for Utility-Generated "Stray Voltage" are:
          1) Increase the size of the Primary Neutral wire, reducing its resistance,
          2) Provide a better balancing of loads between phases (to reduce Neutral Current),
          3) Provide regular changes between WYE and DELTA feeds to customers along a circuit (to eliminate long spans of redundant current paths),
          4) Provide Non-Conductive breaks in the Public water main at regular intervals.
          5) Periodically inspect ALL connections for signs of deterioration (especially the Neutral), using Infrared photography under heavy load conditions. Repair as necessary,
          6) Perform regular Magnetic and Voltage surveys to identify problems before they become troublesome,

          7) When the voltage difference between the Electrical System Ground and any other point in the soil (say as little as 10 feet away) is excessive, request Neutral Isolation from the local utility.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: help thy neighbor

            Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
            i know about the house as i did a home inspection 4 years ago when he was in escrow with it.

            don't know about your electrical issues, but out here we're not on a farm with motors and bad grounds.

            in all the years of plumbing only 1 time have i ever been exposed to an issue with current. and that was a 1920's home with a lot of diy work done by the owner.

            there are multiple sources of ground protection on not only this house but on any modern home.

            i got to now call him to warn him about lightning that might strike when all the stars are aligned.

            rick.
            You still dont understand and I dont think you really want to. Your not out on a farm but you are in california were people think they know everything and the rest of the country is stupid.

            How many times must I tell you that stray current can be generated by the providers electrical system and feed BACK TO THE HOUSE. THAT MEANS THE SOURCE OF THE VOLTAGE MAY HAVE COME THROUGH HIS WATER MAIN.......YOU KNOW THE PIPE YOU TOLD HIM TO TAKE APART.

            His house grounds may have been protecting him.....but not after he DISCONNECTED THE MAIN. Understand?

            ADD> Read number 4 of recourse against stray voltage that is ultility generated. Thats why me installing plastic water mains is GOOD for the customer and the plumber. It prevents this voltage from entering the customers system from the utility.
            Last edited by TheMaster; 08-22-2011, 10:00 AM.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: help thy neighbor

              Originally posted by themaster View Post
              you still dont understand and i dont think you really want to. Your not out on a farm but you are in california were people think they know everything and the rest of the country is stupid.

              How many times must i tell you that stray current can be generated by the providers electrical system and feed back to the house. That means the source of the voltage may have come through his water main.......you know the pipe you told him to take apart.

              His house grounds may have been protecting him.....but not after he disconnected the main. Understand?

              Add> read number 4 of recourse against stray voltage that is ultility generated. Thats why me installing plastic water mains is good for the customer and the plumber. It prevents this voltage from entering the customers system from the utility.
              i really don't need an arm chair electrician explaining grounding and pressure regulators to me.

              But maybe you can explain why you're so busy at 10am your time to keep posting about your left field experiences with stray voltages. Something tells me you're not as busy as you claim to be.

              Go sell your disposals and angle stops and make some petty cash.

              I'll worry about protecting my neighbors son.

              And go write your own threads about your electrical 101 experiences.

              Done with all your games like most others have already expressed.

              Rick.
              phoebe it is

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: help thy neighbor

                Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                i really don't need an arm chair electrician explaining grounding and pressure regulators to me.

                But maybe you can explain why you're so busy at 10am your time to keep posting about your left field experiences with stray voltages. Something tells me you're not as busy as you claim to be.

                Go sell your disposals and angle stops and make some petty cash.

                I'll worry about protecting my neighbors son.

                And go write your own threads about your electrical 101 experiences.

                Done with all your games like most others have already expressed.

                Rick.
                Is that all you can come up with? Everytime you get backed into a corner you worry about how busy I am and what I do with my time.

                Since we are making comments about how others spend their time.......I'm not the one with a baby and instead of spending all the time i could with my baby i spend it on a forum.

                Dont worry about what i do with my time if you dont want others pointing out how you waste yours.

                I made posts to warn and inform others......and to show you why you shouldn't be "helping" neighbors who have no idea of the dangers of "simple" jobs.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: help thy neighbor

                  The only reason to respond to you is to set the record straight.

                  Phoebe is with joey from 645am till they get home after 5.

                  Typically from 6 pm to 615am she sleeps like a baby.

                  Done with you again.

                  Rick.
                  phoebe it is

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: help thy neighbor

                    Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                    The only reason to respond to you is to set the record straight.

                    Phoebe is with joey from 645am till they get home after 5.

                    Typically from 6 pm to 615am she sleeps like a baby.

                    Done with you again.

                    Rick.
                    See why no one should pointing out what others do with their time now Rick? Because it doesn't matter. It has nothing to do with what we are discussing. I dont giva sh$t how you spend your time.

                    Now to set the record straight.

                    You gave the guy instruction to replace a valve that in the right conditions could have killed him. I've proved that. You dont hafta admit it but its a fact.

                    Hopefully others will read this thread and learn somthing besides how to attack the guy with real information and not just wanting to show the world what a great guy I am by loaning toolls to my neighbors and not having a clue as to what dangers could be on a "simple" job.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: help thy neighbor

                      After reading this thread when I need a plumber, I'm calling an electrician.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: help thy neighbor

                        Please don't bring family into any disagreements with each other.
                        Buy cheap, buy twice.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: help thy neighbor

                          Originally posted by James P View Post
                          After reading this thread when I need a plumber, I'm calling an electrician.
                          You may need both before its finished and hopefully no one dies or gets seriously hurt in the process if your disconnecting grounds. You dont always realize your disconnecting the ground either or what direction the current could be traveling in the pipe your cutting.

                          Giving the excuse that one has never experienced this before is no reason to overlook and try to discredit others trying their best to explain it. I'm no electrician but I know how to protect myself the best I can.....that homeowner didn't have a clue that he may have been in danger......and it looks like the one giving the advice didn't have a clue either.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: help thy neighbor

                            Originally posted by themaster View Post
                            you may need both before its finished and hopefully no one dies or gets seriously hurt in the process if your disconnecting grounds. You dont always realize your disconnecting the ground either or what direction the current could be traveling in the pipe your cutting.

                            Giving the excuse that one has never experienced this before is no reason to overlook and try to discredit others trying their best to explain it. I'm no electrician but i know how to protect myself the best i can.....that homeowner didn't have a clue that he may have been in danger......and it looks like the one giving the advice didn't have a clue either.
                            the clueless one is you.

                            You have no clue i've inspected the house, that it has 2 underground services and a grounding rod at the electrical service. Not to mention our gas is also bonded to the water.

                            California is not alabama.

                            Please post all your near calls of death or serious injury that plumbers have encountered on your own thread.

                            Rick.
                            phoebe it is

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: help thy neighbor

                              Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                              the clueless one is you.

                              You have no clue i've inspected the house, that it has 2 underground services and a grounding rod at the electrical service. Not to mention our gas is also bonded to the water.

                              California is not alabama.

                              Please post all your near calls of death or serious injury that plumbers have encountered on your own thread.

                              RICK.
                              What part of this dont you understand Rick. The stray current could be feeding from the city water service pipe. This current is conducted by the owners copper water main. Sure he has grounds in his house to protect him and they may do exactly that. BUT when he removes the PRV from his copper main......the grounds in his house or at his electrical panel will not help him. He has put himself in the circuit between the current and his grounds be removing the PRV.

                              The current is not produced by the owners house but rather the owners house is acting as a ground for the electrical distribution from the provider. DUH for the 10th time.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: help thy neighbor

                                Here I will post this link to a thread on another forum. Read SewerRatz post.......POST NUMBER 34. He got lit the F up from what he says from touching the citys main after disconnecting. Tell all the people here they are just living on the farm and their just paranoid. Tell poster number 5 that his friend is paranoid as well as dead from stray current.

                                People die from the sh$t Rick wake up man. This isn't about you.

                                water service danger - Plumbing Zone - Professional Plumbers Forum

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X