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  • Itt tech commercial

    I just was watching television and this commercial comes on for ITT Technical School. Seemed nice.
    Last edited by TheMaster; 09-25-2011, 02:58 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Itt tech commercial

    I get ITT graduates all the time applying for a draftsman's position. The 1st test we give them is : we give them a shop drawing & have them duplicate it. We have yet have 1 not make atleast 4 mistakes. Sorry we can't use you NEXT.

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    • #3
      Re: Itt tech commercial

      I got brain-washed in High School about going to College as well. If you went to Tech back in high school, you were deemed a dirt ball loser who was going nowhere in life.

      These vocational schools that people go to after high school, are not as good as the other Plumbing schools in my area. I went to one of the toughest Plumbing schools (4 years) in Lower Bucks county for theory only, and I learned more there, than I would of in a vocational school. I've been working in my fathers business since the age of 13, so I was further a long than most when it came to hands on. Being an apprentice at the time, I was lacking in the theory part of this trade, and It was very beneficial to me in the long run.

      The biggest lie being told today is...if one doesn't go to college they will not be successful in life. Besides being a doctor,lawyer,teacher,engineer...college is nothing more than a money making scam IMO.
      Last edited by Flux; 08-27-2011, 10:45 AM.

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      • #4
        Re: Itt tech commercial

        JC talked about this awhile ago but now the student loan debt has surpassed the credit card debt. I think that college will benefit some but not as much as they say it will.
        Buy cheap, buy twice.

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        • #5
          Re: Itt tech commercial

          Originally posted by gear junkie View Post
          JC talked about this awhile ago but now the student loan debt has surpassed the credit card debt. I think that college will benefit some but not as much as they say it will.
          They claim the student loan is the next bubble to burst...it's unsustainable.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Itt tech commercial

            I hate scams and when commercials show successful graduates living great lives I wonder what the percentage is? My older daughter graduated 4yrs of cornell and is now going to law school. She is a bright person, but that doesn't mean she will do well in that profession. What I mean is that people have different skills, strengths, personalities as we are all individuals. I know real smart folks I wouldn't trust operating a lawnmower, and then there are those who never did well in school who I would trust with my life. These tech schools and college are sort of a stepping stone, a combination of the individual and available opportunities makes for a successful life in my opinion. We need tradespeople, skilled professionals such as lawyers and doctors and we need folks doing less skilled work too. My biggest concern is the dedication and responsibility of the individual regardless of their job.

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            • #7
              Re: Itt tech commercial

              Originally posted by gear junkie View Post
              JC talked about this awhile ago but now the student loan debt has surpassed the credit card debt. I think that college will benefit some but not as much as they say it will.
              I can't make it make sense anymore as an investment for around 75-80% of people. And that is what it has always been. An investment to provide a higher monetary return. The notion that it is an investment in the person or making them "more well rounded" is a complete lie. That's something people say to make them feel better.

              People, in the majority, pursue education for themselves or their children to make more money. That's it.

              So if that it is an investment can be accepted then their is an actual number to all parts of the equation. I put in this, I have a high percentage of getting that out of it. Then it can be looked at to see the tipping point at which it no longer is a good investment. (By people much smarter than a plumber. )

              In the past the equation has been a constant that worked very well. And would continue to do so provided the percentages remained a constant. But they haven't.

              Reasons:

              People with four year degrees that are not in specific demand fields in the past could find employment that would still pay a higher salary than someone without the degree. I don't see that being the case anymore. In short, there are more people with low-demand-four-year education and less employment for that so they are much more likely to be waiting tables. Could have done that for four years and been way ahead.

              People with four year degrees that are in specific demand fields will have a difficult time as well because there will be more of those than necessary & only the best in the field will be rewarded for their investment. Don't get me wrong, there is demand for these occupations and probably always will be. And it will have a higher potential of return on investment in a reasonable time. In my opinion, supply will exceed demand though. If you've got 100 engineers and there is only 30 occupations available, was it a good investment for the other 70 people?

              The cost of 4 year and higher institutions has skyrocketed versus annual inflation in the U.S. and salary increases thus lengthening the potential return. Wonder why? One reason may be because most good parents will absolutely kill themselves for the potential to improve their children's chances at success. And if past history has shown this because of a degree then they will fall in line regardless of what outstanding facts may have changed in the investment vs. payback equation. There are others, but this post will get waaay long with my brain exhausts. (Loans, grants, credit, government $) Just remember the first sentence of this paragraph.

              It's almost like the psychology behind all investment manias. Stock Market, Housing Bubble, Tulip Mania...whatever. Think of the madness behind the logic in all of these. The similarity of education investment can be directly applied in my opinion.

              What if colleges were $100.00 per semester? Seriously, what if they were? You most likely immediately think that it is a terrific investment all the way around.

              Now what if they were $100,000 per semester? Do you immediately think it is a good investment? Why not? Do you start thinking, "for what kind of degree"? You probably think both, and the reason is, it is nothing more than an investment with a dollar value at the end.

              So to sum up all of this B.S., college education (or any for that matter. Could be welding) is an investment with a payout. If what you have to put in has a higher potential for earnings in a short or "reasonable" amount of time, then it is a good investment. However, if what you have to put in does not have higher potential for earnings in a "reasonable" amount of time, then it is not a good investment. The "reasonable" return time for college costs was foreseeable and much shorter in the past and made the investment justifiable. That is no longer the case in the majority.

              It's an investment with a dollar number associated and the same rules. Doesn't matter if it is silver bars or college education.

              Question is, will you be in the black or the red?


              J.C.

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              • #8
                Re: Itt tech commercial

                It looks like a lot of anger there Master. Some of it I can relate to and much of it I agree with you on. But "teaching" is a tough job. I sure wouldn't want to do it. (Hell, I didn't want to do "plumbing" either, which is what my father did and what he insisted that I do... but that's a story all by itself!) I used to be "angry" about it, now it's more or less just frustration with the narrowmindedness of business and industry and colleges, and look where all those of the "best and brightest" set have taken us. Pathetic!

                I had some pretty lousey teachers too and I hated high school for a lot of reasons. One is that I hate feeling "stupid" and over my 67 years I've found a lot of teachers and instructors and others of higher education than I, who seemed to relish in showing how much more they know than thier students. One can usually tell within the first hour, as to whether the teacher is there to "impress you" or to "teach you". But though there have been lousey teachers, I've also had some terrific teachers too. I remember a couple who took the time to sit me down and express their concerns and point me toward a path that was better than where my anger and ill-feelings would have taken me. By the time I got out of high school, I sure didn't need any further grief, but I did need to learn everything that I could about things that interested me, and I've spent most of my life in that quest to learn more.

                College isn't for everyone, I totally agree. And, one doesn't have to know a lot of history to realize that some of the greatest minds in the world didn't have a degree! But college does afford opportunities that might otherwise not be there; and sadly, the lack of a degree can greatly overshadow even the best work ethics and abilities. Just from my own personal experience, that "degree" would have doubled, if not tripled my income, it would have kept my job, and because I didn't have it, my "position" was challenged much too often. Usually this resulted in being "not promotable" or "to near the top" of a pay grade, to get an exempliary "raise". (As often discussed, "business" will do whatever is necessary to maximize it's profits, including non-competitive wages to those who don't have a "competitive" degree.)

                While it may not (and should not) be a barrier in the "trades", in much of the industrial and commercial world, that "degree" will be the only thing that will get you an interview. For example, Corning Inc. (and I suspect many others) requires all their resumes' to be sent digitally. A computer program filters them and of course, the education profile will definitely get you dropped at first scan, if you don't have a degree. Therefore, you stand no chance whatsoever in getting an interview, regardless of your talent and experience.

                I once argued the point with a manager I had. He had three children, all college graduates and all unemployed. This was back in the mid-70's and he'd only interview people with degrees, even for a minor position. His arguement was why should I hire a high school graduate when I can get an "Associates"; why should I hire an "Associates" when I can get a "Bachelors"; and why should I hire that "Bachelors" when I now have a "Doctorate"... all applying for a simple copywriter job. He didn't seem to understand that almost any degree, especially the higher it was, would be bored with the job and would walk out at the first opportunity. Not to mention that they might be a real "Bear" to manage. While a High School graduate or perhaps even an "Associates" would most likely work their butts off for the opportunity. He hired the PHD, who stayed only two weeks, then he called one of the "bachelors" who stayed about six months. By then the other candidates had left the area and we got stuck shorthanded and had to start the process all over again. I ended up doing the entire project on my own.

                One of the things that I've always felt in my profession as an illustrator and writer was "discrimination" because I didn't have a degree. One can sue based on discrimination of sex, religion, or race... but when you're doing the best job and you see a less capable person being promoted or given more money, just because they have a degree, that hurts and it is "discriminary"... but it's not covered under the law. That was the case when I lost my job after 30 years. I was the only guy on the "marketing" team that could do any facet of the job and I could do them all, completely producing a product brochure from scratch to printing without any outside help. I knew the product, the engineers, the lab, and the manufacturing procedures. Could write, illustrate it, photograph it, and then publish it through contracting with printers which I had experience with. The other seven team members didn't know one product model from another or the difference between a centrifugal and a recip. Had no clue as to components, engineering, lab, or manufacturing. They couldn't illustrate, photograph, or know anything about the actual printing business.... BUT, THEY HAD DEGREES! I lost MY job! They haven't done a product brochure or updated their web site since. They've also reduced the number of workers by more than 50% and their market share is down. But they do now manufacture in China!

                I learned long ago, that what is, IS! You can't fight it, some people are just stupid, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with their education or the 'degree' that they may or may not have. But, just because you can't fight it, doesn't mean that you have to accept it either. Life can be challenging and one might well freak out over the "money thing"... but if one can be happy with what they do, make an exceptable living, invest wisely, and maintain their sense of honor and pride... than you have become successful within all the parameters that should matter. While the only diploma I have is from high school, I 've done a lot of learning since, and the rewards have been plentiful enough to ensure happiness for my family and myself.

                I'd like to think (though it isn't really true anymore) that, it isn't what you have in the way of "paper", it is what you can do and what you have done. If some idiot doesn't want to see that, then it's thier loss and I move on. In my forty-six years of work in industry, there's more than a couple of managers who didn't give me a chance, only to meet me later on the other side of the table. Work has those occasional little "smile" times.

                At one point in my career, my division moved south and I found myself without a job. I was feeling pretty sorry for myself, but I knew I'd get a job before too long. One morning in that first week, I was sitting in the car listening to the radio while my wife was buying groceries. That morning the local radio show was listing "jobs" in the area: "Wanted shoe salesman, Bachelors Degree Required". That really set me back, I almost cried. Here I was without a job, with no prospects with any local company (hey, technical illustrators are basically only good if you make a mechanical product) and now I was hearing that I couldn't even qualify to put shoes on somebody's stinkin' feet! What a state the country was in, that was 1982! (The frustration in today's labor market must be unbearable!)

                That evening I created my own company and spent the next two and a half years as a freelancer, incorporated in NY State. While I made less money, I got to keep more and spend more. In those years, we paid off the mortgage, bought a new car, computer systems, all the equipment I needed to handle industrial photography and turn my illustrations into presentations, including E-6 film processing. I never had to touch the kid's college fund, and we even managed a few nice vacations. YOU DON'T NEED A DEGREE to head your own corporation and nobody asks what college you graduated from when you come in the lobby as a contractor!

                So, I took my layoff after 30-years of service and just retired. Nobody needs the hassle and without a degree, I got tired of having to argue the point. At this point I've been retired for eight years. Not bad for "no degree". I don't want for anything (well, let me just say I don't need anything... I always WANT something) and though I have to budget a bit, that's nothing new. Best I think, is that I did it MY way, I never had a union, or had to borrow for my son's college either; and, he DOES have a degree! Bachelors in Industrial Labor Relations from Cornell and an MBA from Marist.

                So, you don't need a degree, but life in some fields would definitely be easier. And without the proper degree from just the right college your preferred vocation may not be possible at all.

                CWS
                Last edited by CWSmith; 08-28-2011, 12:55 AM. Reason: Typo.

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                • #9
                  Re: Itt tech commercial

                  Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
                  While it may not (and should not) be a barrier in the "trades", in much of the industrial and commercial world, that "degree" will be the only thing that will get you an interview. For example, Corning Inc. (and I suspect many others) requires all their resumes' to be sent digitally. A computer program filters them and of course, the education profile will definitely get you dropped at first scan, if you don't have a degree. Therefore, you stand no chance whatsoever in getting an interview, regardless of your talent and experience.
                  Companies can get in trouble if they let a candidate who doesn't meet the posted qualifications of the job through; yet filter out others. My experience at a large company was that a lot of the hiring/screening process, at least on the HR side is just trying to keep the company out of hot water.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Itt tech commercial

                    I have gripping for years about this. One of my arguments has been that the reason for the explosion of illegal workers in the US is due to the constant degrading of the tradesmen in schools. These kids get out school and they don't want to be landscapers, plumbers, electricians, roofers, etc. They think they are low paying jobs. So, they go to college, graduate with usually enormous debit, usually with just a general bachelors in business or management without any real focus. They now feel entitled to big pay and start the job hunting process. Of course they refuse to do any "entry level" job, they feel they already climbed the ladder in their minds. So now we have a bunch of punk kids without work, refuse to take a tradesmen job and ***** about illegals takin jobs, jobs they wouldn't be caught dead doing anyway.

                    I just don't get it. Some corporations are idiots, they could hire hs grads and put them through training classes over four years and end up with a better employee in 4 years then they ever could from a college grad.

                    Case in point, my wife works in the financial world, and has since 2 years out of high school. No college at all. She now is a team lead of 12 members on a compliance team at a large financial company. She makes good money, BUT because she doesn't have a college degree, she makes 10-20k less then half of the team members she supervises. It's bullshit but what can you do. Even though she doesn't have the degree, her company still picked her over college educated applicants because of her experience and knowledge with the systems they use. Something you can't get with your nose in a book. Still makes me mad about her pay, but oh well.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Itt tech commercial

                      Originally posted by Alphacowboy View Post
                      I have gripping for years about this. One of my arguments has been that the reason for the explosion of illegal workers in the US is due to the constant degrading of the tradesmen in schools. These kids get out school and they don't want to be landscapers, plumbers, electricians, roofers, etc. They think they are low paying jobs. So, they go to college, graduate with usually enormous debit, usually with just a general bachelors in business or management without any real focus. They now feel entitled to big pay and start the job hunting process. Of course they refuse to do any "entry level" job, they feel they already climbed the ladder in their minds. So now we have a bunch of punk kids without work, refuse to take a tradesmen job and ***** about illegals takin jobs, jobs they wouldn't be caught dead doing anyway.

                      I just don't get it. Some corporations are idiots, they could hire hs grads and put them through training classes over four years and end up with a better employee in 4 years then they ever could from a college grad.

                      Case in point, my wife works in the financial world, and has since 2 years out of high school. No college at all. She now is a team lead of 12 members on a compliance team at a large financial company. She makes good money, BUT because she doesn't have a college degree, she makes 10-20k less then half of the team members she supervises. It's bullshit but what can you do. Even though she doesn't have the degree, her company still picked her over college educated applicants because of her experience and knowledge with the systems they use. Something you can't get with your nose in a book. Still makes me mad about her pay, but oh well.
                      What you describe is not fair in a way or good for the company. I think they use the college degree as a way to gauge the applicants baseline education and go from there, which excludes the unique and sometimes superior traits of the noncollege applicant or worker. If they think it's a bragging point to say they have workers with certain college degrees, it may sound impressive but wouldn't you want to best worker regardless of their advanced education? We can't fight the system and this is what it has become. I'm sending my younger daughter to a culinary college and I think it's insane to have to spend so much money so she can be in that industry. It's a waste of money and a scam to think it is necessary to produce people with sufficient skills!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Itt tech commercial

                        Frank, at least your daughter is going to school with a goal in mind. So many people, IMHO, blow thousands on general college classes without any direction or goal. I personally think these kids that go to college without any idea of what they want to do for a living are complete morons. If you don't know what you want to do, go job hunting in a field you think you might like, if it suits your aspirations, start taking classes for that field, if not, move on. Blows my mind when I hear of kids graduating from college, tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of dollars in debt only to not like their career path because they didn't scope out the real life part of the job first. Their only motivation was the potential dollar signs...

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