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  • Verizonstrickers boost unemployment numbers ?

    W.T.F. , How can they collect, when They walk off ?
    I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

  • #2
    Re: Verizonstrickers boost unemployment numbers ?

    Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
    W.T.F. , How can they collect, when They walk off ?
    Thats why this country is Fk'd up...everything is done backwards.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Verizonstrickers boost unemployment numbers ?

      You guys just don't get it and never will. You would have to have worked for New York Tel aka, NYNEX aka, Bell Atlantic aka, Verizon over the course of many years to understand how these labor events unfold. Verizon with profits in the billions has agreed to workers benefits spaning many years and contracts. I think reasonable folks might agree that only a fool would give up what they have won during previous negotiations, but then again some of you folks think very differently than myself and all those verizon Union workers. I'll try to break this down so it makes some kind of sense. Union members do not negotiate directly with their employer, that is the job of their Union representatives. If the Union has been given the authority to strike, individual Union members cannot cross picket lines and work because they would be in violation of their Union by laws. All this really boils down to a very profitable company with tens of thosaunds of employees purposely forcing a strike by refusing to negotiate for a new contract. the employees cannot work at verizon during the strike and have a "right" to file for and collect unemployment benefits. This may seem outrageous, but if you really understood what was taking place you would not be so quick to demonize the Union workers and support verizon. I don't expect my post to change any closed minds, but that is the way it has been and will continue to be. Ultimately, Union workers who retain benefits paid for by a profitable company do enjoy a "redistribution of wealth". Please remember these are working people and not welfare recipients. Unlike our communist chinese counterparts, Americans do have the right to form labor organizations, strike, and negotiate for pay raises and other benefits. I suggest if you are in opposition to our freedoms, you just don't understand what this country is all about. Sorry I can't make it any plainer. Frank

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Verizonstrickers boost unemployment numbers ?

        Sorry Frankiarmz but if you're saying that an alredy employed worker who walks away from their job solely because they want more stuff has a "right" to collect taxpayer funded unemployment benefits than I couldn't disagree more and feel the it's you "who don't get it and never will".
        Teach your kids about taxes..........eat 30 percent of their ice cream.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Verizonstrickers boost unemployment numbers ?

          So, just out of curiosity, if say a union worker says enough is enough, crosses the line and negotiates his own contract with the employer, what is stopping him from doing so? Sorry Frank, but there is no way in hell I would ever allow someone else to do my bidding for my wage/benefits. Never understood it, never will. What's so hard with negotiating pay with your boss? Been there, done that. When I couldn't get what I wanted, I left and got what I wanted elsewhere. Sorry, but if you agree to a union and to strike, you forgo any compensation in my mind other than that from you union itself.

          I'd love to see the thuggery if one decides to tell the union to take a giant leap and crosses the line with two fingers in the air to those behind him yelling and forges his own future...

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Verizonstrickers boost unemployment numbers ?

            Originally posted by BadgerDave View Post
            Sorry Frankiarmz but if you're saying that an alredy employed worker who walks away from their job solely because they want more stuff has a "right" to collect taxpayer funded unemployment benefits than I couldn't disagree more and feel the it's you "who don't get it and never will".
            Dave, in this case it is not "more stuff", it involves keeping what has been agrred to in the past. Sorry if that's not to your liking but it's what these workers are asking and they are asking it of a very wealthy employer.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Verizonstrickers boost unemployment numbers ?

              Originally posted by Alphacowboy View Post
              So, just out of curiosity, if say a union worker says enough is enough, crosses the line and negotiates his own contract with the employer, what is stopping him from doing so? Sorry Frank, but there is no way in hell I would ever allow someone else to do my bidding for my wage/benefits. Never understood it, never will. What's so hard with negotiating pay with your boss? Been there, done that. When I couldn't get what I wanted, I left and got what I wanted elsewhere. Sorry, but if you agree to a union and to strike, you forgo any compensation in my mind other than that from you union itself.

              I'd love to see the thuggery if one decides to tell the union to take a giant leap and crosses the line with two fingers in the air to those behind him yelling and forges his own future...
              If you asked these questions wanting answers I'll give them. In the case of verizon, the only recognized bargaining agent for employees is the Union, an individual cannot negotiate his or her own contract. You would understand what is happening here if you worked as a telephone employee because you would learn the history of how the job evolved. When you work for verizon, you exchange your time and effort for pay, benefits and seniority which go towards your pension. It is not the sort of job where you just pick up and move because as much as you need the job, the job needs you and your experience. I worked with aerial bucket trucks, auger trucks, rodders, reel carriers. My years of experience allowed me to do the job efficiently and safely under all sorts of conditions. Verizon would never get the continuity of work, accepted standards or response time from a work force that could up and go on a whim. These are the kinds of jobs where you dedicate yourself and have every expectation that the employer will do the same. Does any of that make sense, or do you not get it yet?
              Regarding crossing picket lines to prove you are a tough guy and individual, the idea and function of a Union still escapes many folks here. You may be of a mindset to pick up and go elsewhere if you are not happy with your job, or if your boss feels like tossing you out and putting his nephew in your place. The idea of a Union is to use the strength of unity in numbers to compel the employer to treat workers with more dignity, fairness and better benefits than the individual can accomplish on his or her own. This is about choice just like you mentioned. If you choose to work at a place without Unions and take your chances with your boss, go right ahead. If you choose to have the benefits that go with being part of a Union, then you work at such a job. I'm still kind of surprised at how upset folks get at the thought of Americans exercising their rights to organize into Unions to gain job securtiy and benefits.

              I didn't forget your last point about crossing the picket line and thuggery. Let's not forget what a strike is all about. In this case verizon simply said they were going to do away with sick days, pensions, healthcare agreements and a few other serious job situations which had previously been agreed to. All these things impact workers and their families, and they impact them no less than how you earn a living for yourself and your family. We are talking about working men and women with families, responsibilities and situations which depend on them going to work and verizon doing it's part. Well here we are, on a picket line with a common goal of keeping our job and benefits and supporting our families and along comes a person who doesn't give a dam about his fellow worker, all he is thinking about is himself.
              He will get cursed at, spit at and in some cases assaulted. I read on this site plenty of times about guys who don't care about anyone else but themselves. That is not how Union workers think or act, and they expect the same of their coworkers. It would be like your wife committing adultery right in front of you, would you just stand there and do nothing or kick butt?

              My last comment and then I'll shut up because we just won't ever agree. Folks here seem to think it's wrong to ask for a raise, benefits or strike. All these things affect a workers standard of living and that of his family, but I have read here countlesss times that if some of you see a rise in your costs be it taxes or materials, whatever, you simply pass it on to your customers. If you think it's wrong for workers to ask for more money or to keep benefits they have, then don't be hypocrits, don't charge customers more to make up for your rising costs. Frank
              Last edited by Frankiarmz; 09-02-2011, 01:14 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Verizonstrickers boost unemployment numbers ?

                What we are seeing more and more is the cost of healthcare is right in the middle of a lot of these strikes. It is easy to talk about keeping what was agreed to but that is not always true either. I am not talking specifically about Verizon I'm talking about all of the labor negotiations. When the cost for healthcare insurance quadruples (or more), is that really keeping what was agreed to? Part of negotiation has to be comparing dollars to dollars in the total compensation package.

                Mark
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Verizonstrickers boost unemployment numbers ?

                  The part of being in a union that I don't agree with is the majority rule. If I am 100% happy with my current conditions, and would be still be happily employed with a decrease in pay or benefits, but > 50% of my union believe otherwise and authorizes a strike, then I am forced to strike (if I understand the rules correctly). This would be unfair to me and my family; I just want to work!

                  That aside, anyone who assumes they'll be getting the same or better compensation than today, or will be getting a pension or social security at retirement, is simply being foolish. This applies to union and non-union jobs alike. The best approach I've found is to minimize or eliminate debt as early as possible, and start saving for retirement as early as possible. We really can't afford to count on the government, companies, or unions, to take care of us.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Verizonstrickers boost unemployment numbers ?

                    By the way, when I was in the Union our shop would always sigh a "sweet heart deal" so we never went out on strike. The Union also agreed to take a dollar an hour below scale for for our compensation to make our employer more competitive. When I had a complaint I was told by the Union to find another shop. I'm not sure who the Union was protecting but it sure wasn't me and my family.

                    Mark
                    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Verizonstrickers boost unemployment numbers ?

                      Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                      Dave, in this case it is not "more stuff", it involves keeping what has been agrred to in the past. Sorry if that's not to your liking but it's what these workers are asking and they are asking it of a very wealthy employer.
                      Silly me, here I was under the impression that this thread was about workers who went on strike being able to collect unemployement benefits. When did the Union negotiate that benefit and with whom?
                      Teach your kids about taxes..........eat 30 percent of their ice cream.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Verizonstrickers boost unemployment numbers ?

                        When the cost for health care insurance quadruples (or more), is that really keeping what was agreed to?
                        I don't think ANYONE signed on for that, union or not. Why do we ( the public and government, not just unions)
                        just accept these outrageous price increases from the health insurance companies, drug manufacturers, etc.

                        What would happen if you tripled your rates year after year? You'd be standing in the street kicking rocks cause you wouldn't have any work.

                        It doesn't matter if you have health care as a negotiated benefit of a union contract or in your contract with a company as a manager or you pay it all out of your pocket. Everyone is getting hurt. Only difference is the unions have a larger voice and can collectively put more pressure on to maybe affect some change. Only problem is they are fighting with their employers instead of the employers AND the unions fighting the health industry. And I say industry because its not all the insurance companies, the problem includes doctors, hospitals, drug manufacturers, and everyone down the line.
                        ---------------
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                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Verizonstrickers boost unemployment numbers ?

                          There is so much fraud going on its pathetic. people go to the Dr and get declared disabled and then get a check forever from the goverment. Now I dont have a problem with that at all for people who are truly disabled,I want to make that clear. We live in a rich country and we have enough and should take care of our citizens that are truly in need. The problem is the system is totally manipulated for the sake of getting somthing for nothing.

                          people selling food stamps
                          people claiming to be hurt on the job
                          insurance fraud in general
                          people claiming malpractice against a Dr. and the cost to defend against it when there was no malpractice.
                          Insurance companies writing a policy and exclude more than they cover leaving you with medical bills +insurance bills
                          Drug companies giving Dr.'s rewards for writting their medication. (this has been stopped for the most part)
                          Drug companies paying the pretty blond rep to visit the Dr.'s 75,000+ to drive around to deliver doughnuts and lunch and talk about their product to the Dr.'s and staff.
                          Paying a pharmacist 100,000+ a year to fill a bottle for you.

                          I know I've called my Dr before from the pharmacy and asked if he would prescribe me somthing different because what he gave me cost too much. One Dr asked me how much it was and I told him and he was shocked........if your healthy for the most part and not allergic to most medications alot of times there are usually several drugs that will treat your condition the same and thats when to go with the cheaper drug. Usually the cheaper drugs are the older ones that are time proven and tested to be safe. Cant say that with new medications now days because they are recalling things left and right. So somtimes the cheaper drug is the best choice IMO and my Dr.'s opinion.

                          Another customer of mine is a surgeon and he was telling me that microscopic surgery is not always a good thing. Thats when they make a few holes in your mid section and stick different instruments in to do the work along with a camera. They pump you up with some kinda gas to expand you to have more room to work. He said that alot of times when he does surgery with a scalpel and works with his hands he finds more problems. He said he has found cancer in people by the feel of the tissue with his fingers and the look of it. When you cut into an unkown cancer it will spread so the proper course would be remove all you can while in there and then treat it after. With a scope surgery he would have missed it and the cancer has a greater probability to spread after the surgery if it wasn't found. He said he likes it for joint repair.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Verizonstrickers boost unemployment numbers ?

                            Originally posted by BadgerDave View Post
                            Silly me, here I was under the impression that this thread was about workers who went on strike being able to collect unemployement benefits. When did the Union negotiate that benefit and with whom?
                            Dave, you are silly to suggest the thread is about unemployment for strikers, and then post the following.
                            "Sorry Frankiarmz but if you're saying that an alredy employed worker who walks away from their job solely because they want more stuff has a "right" to collect taxpayer funded unemployment benefits than I couldn't disagree more and feel the it's you "who don't get it and never will".

                            I answered you that the strike was not over in your words, "More Stuff". Those Union workers did not walk away from their jobs, their Union was authorized to strike because verizon was not negotiating in good faith but you don't understand that and I can't explain it any better.

                            I guess my attempts to explain unemployment for striking Union members failed so I'll try again. There was and is no negotiating the benefit for unemployment for striking Union member, it is part of a process of the state unemployment authority to decide. Since Union members must abide by the decisions of their Union, they cannot work those jobs in the event of a strike and are technically unemployed.

                            Maybe this could make it easier to understand. Imagine you become a police officer because you like the uniform, authority and carrying a gun. Now you get into a gun battle along with some fellow officers against a bad gang heavily armed. You decide this sort of action is not for you so you run and leave your fellow officers to fend for themselves. Being a Union member is roughly the same thing Dave, you benefit from positive negotiations but man up and stick together when things get rough. I hope this helped explain unemployment for striking Union members and why Union members do not turn tail and abandon their Union brothers and sisters when things get rough. Frank

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Verizonstrickers boost unemployment numbers ?

                              Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
                              I don't think ANYONE signed on for that, union or not. Why do we ( the public and government, not just unions)
                              just accept these outrageous price increases from the health insurance companies, drug manufacturers, etc.

                              What would happen if you tripled your rates year after year? You'd be standing in the street kicking rocks cause you wouldn't have any work.

                              It doesn't matter if you have health care as a negotiated benefit of a union contract or in your contract with a company as a manager or you pay it all out of your pocket. Everyone is getting hurt. Only difference is the unions have a larger voice and can collectively put more pressure on to maybe affect some change. Only problem is they are fighting with their employers instead of the employers AND the unions fighting the health industry. And I say industry because its not all the insurance companies, the problem includes doctors, hospitals, drug manufacturers, and everyone down the line.
                              Good post Bob! I'm a realist and think things need to be sustainable as a bottom line. That includes anything that has been or will be agreed to in labor negotiations. The states that agreed to certain Union demands and can't pay them because they don't have the revenue can't realistically do much to change things! The healthcare industry, specifically hmo's, insurance, are a middleman we can't afford. In my opinion we also can't afford all the fraud like TheMaster mentioned or all the expensive procedures we now use to keep very sick folks alive. Our economy is in a very bad way and we need to drastically cut costs, benefits, fraud, waste, spending, and employ Americans! This thread and the fate of my Union brothers and sisters is but a drop in the bucket compared to the fate of America. We are in a battle for our lives in my opinion. I don't agree with folks who say communist china needs us so it's good they hold our debt. I think all china needs is to grow stronger and take from us whatever they want! Look at how they treat their people, open your eyes people! All those smiling chinese faces hide the fear they live under. They don't decide to work hard and enjoy a certain standard of living, they are told how to live. No protests, no strikes, no free will. When they grow strong enough and we have grown weaker, they won't need us or our permission. They will take what they want. I strongly urge those of you who say you don't care about anyone but yourself to bite your tongue before you utter those words again. Care about your fellow American who is not working because their job has been outsourced. Pull your head out of the sand and keep caring till it hurts. Our problems are far greater than striking Union workers and verizon. Frank

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