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  • #31
    Re: Ah yes, Solar Power

    Originally posted by AFM View Post
    I have solar electricity panels on my roof and it generates 3/4 of what I use per day and I get back 60cents for every KW I send back into the grid and this is the future whether you like it or not whether they are large government financed or small individual installations the days of unlimited consumerism are coming to an end as it is unsustanable as you can see with your national debt so stop blameing your governmnents and start blameing yourselves for allowing this to happen and pull your heads out of the sand.

    Tony
    Did you leave out some information or I just don't quite understand? Your system generates 3/4 of what you use but will pay you .60 for each KW you put back into the system. Does that mean that it never pays you anything because you are always using more than you generate? Just a little confusing.


    Here in the U.S., it does not pay off to do it. I have been to peoples' houses that have had solar "specialists" do an evaluation on their residence and after the evaluation they don't elect to do it. They have the roof sq.ft. and proper exposure. Just the cost vs. payback will never work out to be worth it. At least in the U.S.

    One of my good friends (also a plumber) that was all into "off the grid" and solar back in the 70's took some classes on it recently to see what was new and just for fun. You know what he told me? "Ain't nothing much changed. Some panels are more efficient but it will still never pay off...."

    I started looking into myself pretty hard a few years back. I wanted to setup a larger area of solar panels and have that go back into the grid to actually pay me enough to realize growth on the investment. Did a lot of research. Actually found the recorded minutes of the meetings pertaining to this by Duke Energy. What I found is that they had the rules made so that no system can generate more power than the requirements of the structure the system supplies. They do an evaluation of your business/structure and you can't have a system that will produce much more than the demand.

    So they may throw that $10.00 a month at you, but they're not gonna' let you put something in that will require them to throw that $1,000.00 a month at you without alot more paperwork, redtape, and possible back deal. Not that things like that ever go on.

    As far as an investment goes, people for some reason seem to be shortsighted or not looking at the total picture when calculating investments.

    An investment is just that-you have to give something to get something. Simple enough. Some don't realize though that the "something" has now lost it's potential earnings in other areas because it is tied to an investment. What I mean is that if you have a $20,000.00 solar panel system that pays them $100.00 a month and their power bill is $100.00 a month, many think they are getting a return of $200.00 a month. Which, in simplest terms, they are. But what if they held that money and interest rates soared to 12%? Or they instead bought a trailer jetter that yielded a $1,000.00 a month? You see, there is always potential and realized gain with an investment. But there is also, always potential and realized loss with that exact same investment. I think I just went crosseyed.

    The same principles can be applied to gas vs. diesel engine, tankless vs. tank water heaters, solar vs. grid....whatever. For some it can work and pay. For many situations, when one really puts the pencil and calculator to it and asks questions, many things do not pay as an investment.

    A quick way to assess something is looking at what the masses do. If it is a simple transaction and will pay back in a reasonable amount of time, everyone will go to these systems. As that begins to happen other manufacturers jump into the game and competition ensues. Then prices historically drop for the consumer to the point that it becomes the norm to have something. No-one used to have running water in their house. It was a luxury. Think about it.

    Finally, don't get me wrong Tony. I WANT to do something like Solar. I get energized once in awhile and look into it, then get disappointed when I get to the bottom line. That's why the majority don't do it, and that's why these companies go out of business even with FREE MONEY FROM THE TAXPAYERS!!! <I can't provide any more proof of it being a failed investment than that.

    The only people that win here with it are contractors installing it. And if they know what they are doing they should tell people all the facts. But then, guess what? They probably would install even less of them and all of this would go away quicker....until the next time.

    My head hurts.


    J.C.
    Last edited by BobsPlumbing; 09-17-2011, 11:18 AM.

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    • #32
      Re: Ah yes, Solar Power

      Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
      No argument that Obama is a loser. The "God Dam America" comment came from rev wright who correct me is a former military man (marine?). You gonna condemn the military because he made inflamatory comments? How about President Bush hanging with president of mexico vincente fox and kissing his butt as illegals made a joke of our borders? You completely ignored the body of my post.
      Please give it a read and tell me if you think things will change when they have not up to this point? I think we are sunk and the republicans offer us no hope either., that's why we are in this mess. We will see a repeat of big promises and zero results.
      You'd be a long time looking for any Marine that would have a beer with that piesce of trash!
      I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

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      • #33
        Re: Ah yes, Solar Power

        j.c. believe me

        go with the trailer jetter

        rick.
        phoebe it is

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        • #34
          Re: Ah yes, Solar Power

          Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
          You'd be a long time looking for any Marine that would have a beer with that piesce of trash!
          He served his country and something really ticked him off. I am white and grew up in the north, maybe he grew up in the south and remembers the "coloreds only" bathrooms and areas? Maybe he got a few tickets for "Driving while black"? Do you think those morons who chained the black man to the back of their pickup and dragged him until his head fell off were trash? There were a lot of folks listening to him spew his hatred, you really don't think any of them had a bone to pick with how they were treated just because of the color of their skin? Maybe you don't believe they have a right to be upset, or maybe you think they are not allowed to speak out against injustice. Maybe you think such things never happened like the holocaust? If you're done calling him a piece of trash try speaking to my original post and tell me how we got a good deal from the republican administrations that allowed the borders to remain wide open, the businesses and jobs to leave, the debt to a communist country to occur? I think they are trash for what they did to our once great country! Bunch of bums democrats and republicans, now go and defend them.

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          • #35
            Re: Ah yes, Solar Power

            Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
            He served his country and something really ticked him off. I am white and grew up in the north, maybe he grew up in the south and remembers the "coloreds only" bathrooms and areas? Maybe he got a few tickets for "Driving while black"? Do you think those morons who chained the black man to the back of their pickup and dragged him until his head fell off were trash? There were a lot of folks listening to him spew his hatred, you really don't think any of them had a bone to pick with how they were treated just because of the color of their skin? Maybe you don't believe they have a right to be upset, or maybe you think they are not allowed to speak out against injustice. Maybe you think such things never happened like the holocaust? If you're done calling him a piece of trash try speaking to my original post and tell me how we got a good deal from the republican administrations that allowed the borders to remain wide open, the businesses and jobs to leave, the debt to a communist country to occur? I think they are trash for what they did to our once great country! Bunch of bums democrats and republicans, now go and defend them.
            You're close to losing your analogy Frankie. I don't know what you're getting at. There is and always will be crime, racism, and unfair treatment. Towards all people.

            Moving on. It's Clinton's fault, right? It's GWB fault, right? No, no, let's look at what Andrew Jackson did and b!tch about that, right? This is like people showing up on the job saying Bob did this, Jim did that, look at what he did. That's why the problem is there.

            F#!@ all that. I'm talking about now and what's being done. The past can be learned from, but what's being done now, who's responsible, and what are we going to do about it?


            J.C.

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            • #36
              Re: Ah yes, Solar Power

              You want to know who's fault it is? It's my fault and your fault and everybody's fault that has spent the last 50 years accumulating credit card debt and wasting their time watching flat screen TV's, downloading games and porn off the internet, facebook and twittering and texting drivel that nobody gives a crap about. It's everyone's fault that has paid more attention to collecting the trappings of wealth than they have been to what's going on in country and the world today. So blame the politicians and businessmen for taking advantage of our sloth but in the end it's OUR fault.
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              • #37
                Re: Ah yes, Solar Power

                Back to energy. Do you believe that Nicotine is a drug? It is. Obviously with lesser highs and addictive properties as some.

                What the heck is J.C. talking about? James B. Duke originally made his fortune in tobacco. Creating one monopoly in one country and attempting to do it again in another one. Until he ran into another version of himself there. Later, and to shorten the story, funds from this venture brought about Catawba Power, Southern Power, Duke Power, and Duke Energy. Now Duke is in the middle of merging with Progress Energy to form the largest utility in the United States.

                The largest utility in the U.S. with the foundation of it's beginning in addictive drugs. Dope dealer gone legit.



                J.C.

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                • #38
                  Re: Ah yes, Solar Power

                  Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                  You want to know who's fault it is? It's my fault and your fault and everybody's fault that has spent the last 50 years accumulating credit card debt and wasting their time watching flat screen TV's, downloading games and porn off the internet, facebook and twittering and texting drivel that nobody gives a crap about. It's everyone's fault that has paid more attention to collecting the trappings of wealth than they have been to what's going on in country and the world today. So blame the politicians and businessmen for taking advantage of our sloth but in the end it's OUR fault.
                  Exactly.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Ah yes, Solar Power

                    Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                    You want to know who's fault it is? It's my fault and your fault and everybody's fault that has spent the last 50 years accumulating credit card debt and wasting their time watching flat screen TV's, downloading games and porn off the internet, facebook and twittering and texting drivel that nobody gives a crap about. It's everyone's fault that has paid more attention to collecting the trappings of wealth than they have been to what's going on in country and the world today. So blame the politicians and businessmen for taking advantage of our sloth but in the end it's OUR fault.
                    I can see blaming it on the small nonUnion businessman and all his wealthy trappings, but how am I to blame for watching a little porn?
                    Seriously though, getting back to what J.C. said, I'm concerned about what is being done right now! I'm upset about what was done or not done in the past years leading to thsi knid of irresponsible spending and behavior. We don't have the tax revenue from businesses and jobs to pay for the things our government wants to do. Our states and local governments are suffering as well and we the tax payers are making up for all that lost revenue along with whatever the illegals tack on as they burden the system. J.C., I'd like to know what's being done beyond Obama's "Nothing"? Consider the months leading to the next Presidential election lost opportunity, but don't expect much if a republican gets elected. I'll cast my republican vote and hope Obama gets defeated.

                    Lastly to J.C..
                    "You're close to losing your analogy Frankie. I don't know what you're getting at. There is and always will be crime, racism, and unfair treatment. Towards all people." What I'm getting at is what I clearly wrote, he and other blacks are upset over the racism and obviously the reverend had no problem getting loud over that upset. I still remember my Mother looking for an apartment when I was a kid in the Bronx. She inquired at about twenty different apartment buildings but was turned down because we were not Professionals and jewish. I never forgot that. Now imagine growing up black seeing all that blatant racism, serving your country and still having to see it when you come back.
                    Come on J.C., who is losing their analogy? The guy and plenty like him are mad as hell, do you think all of us had the same experience? I don't think so and no one will convince me differently. Was it smart for a Presidential candidate to align himself with someone so vocal and angry? No.
                    Last edited by Frankiarmz; 09-17-2011, 12:57 PM.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Ah yes, Solar Power

                      Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                      I can see blaming it on the small nonUnion businessman and all his wealthy trappings, but how am I to blame for watching a little porn?
                      Seriously though, getting back to what J.C. said, I'm concerned about what is being done right now! I'm upset about what was done or not done in the past years leading to thsi knid of irresponsible spending and behavior. We don't have the tax revenue from businesses and jobs to pay for the things our government wants to do. Our states and local governments are suffering as well and we the tax payers are making up for all that lost revenue along with whatever the illegals tack on as they burden the system. J.C., I'd like to know what's being done beyond Obama's "Nothing"? Consider the months leading to the next Presidential election lost opportunity, but don't expect much if a republican gets elected. I'll cast my republican vote and hope Obama gets defeated.

                      Lastly to J.C..
                      "You're close to losing your analogy Frankie. I don't know what you're getting at. There is and always will be crime, racism, and unfair treatment. Towards all people." What I'm getting at is what I clearly wrote, he and other blacks are upset over the racism and obviously the reverend had no problem getting loud over that upset. I still remember my Mother looking for an apartment when I was a kid in the Bronx. She inquired at about twenty different apartment buildings but was turned down because we were not Professionals and jewish. I never forgot that. Now imagine growing up black seeing all that blatant racism, severing your country and still having to see it when you come back.
                      Come on J.C., who is losing their analogy? The guy and plenty like him are mad as hell, do you think all of us had the same experience? I don't think so and no one will convince me differently. Was it smart for a Presidential candidate to align himself with someone so vocal and angry? No.
                      I still have no idea what you're talking about and it's relation to Solar Power or the failure of the Solar company at the beginning.

                      YOU are losing your analogy.


                      J.C.

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                      • #41
                        Re: Ah yes, Solar Power

                        Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
                        My Irish Farther said " Show Me the company You keep,and I'll tell You what You are !
                        Reverand Wright "God Dam America" William Ayers,Bomber for the Weather Underground! I rest My case!!
                        I'm sorry J.C., maybe you were not following the posts I was responding to? We got off the thread topic and started discussing politics and how neither the democrats or republicans have anything to be proud of leading to our current situation. Then at some point the above was posted, and I started responding with how the reverend and other blacks have there reasons to be upset. None of this has anything to do with the thread and so there is no analogy which applies. The only analogies and stories I expressed were aimed towards this and other posts such as the one you wrote claiming everyone has been a vicitm of bad treatment. I maintain that the blacks have had and still have a hard way to go in a white society. I am not black, but I imagine seeing all those 'coloreds only" signs growing up and other more recent hate incidents gives them a different perspective than you and I. Maybe I'm wrong? By all means, if you would like let's stick to soalr and alternative energy. On that subject I think given the professional advice I have learned here we should be drilling for oil none stop! What are we waiting for if the alternative energies are not there yet?

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                        • #42
                          Re: Ah yes, Solar Power

                          In the early sixties the elementary schools began to change how math was taught. There was a feeling that rote memorization was detrimental to the overall learning style of most children. So they started teaching kids how to count. Not how to add mind you, how to count. There's a difference. When you really learn to add, you are able to come up with correct answers because those answers are an automatic response to the input (say 3+5) In other words, those that can add don't need to use their fingers or count in their heads. So why change the way we teach math? After all, it was working for many generations before. At about the same time the concept of the credit card began to become more wide spread. Banks started giving everyone credit as well as loosening mortgage requirements and inventing ways to give folks credit that in truth had no business having it. So now, 50 years or so later the schools are still teaching kids to count and more and more people are having major financial issues, all because they never learned simple math and therefore never read the contract and happily signed their name. I regularly see folks swipe the credit card at McDonalds and I'll bet that the majority of them never realize that unless they pay that card off at the end of the month, they are going to pay 3 to 10 times more for that number 3 with a coke than what it originally cost. The banks and financial institutions have a huge stake in keeping the population ignorant. Makes you wonder who's ear was being whispered into back then.

                          We have been and will continue to be played like puppets by politicians and business. How many of you have bought into the whole smart phone/I pad thing hook line and sinker? Clever marketing keeps entire generations constantly clamoring for the new "technology" that is supposed to make our lives richer and more fulfilling. Anyone feel like that promise has been met? Instead of sitting down and talking to folks face to face, we now make terse and mostly inane comments via text. The smart technology enables us to say rude and horrible things to people we have never met. It let's us put off important things while we pop balloons or knock pigs off their platforms. We can store thousands of pictures that we never look at and make "friends" with people we will never meet. What kind of a friend is someone that we never meet? We can spare ourselves the trouble of finding a date the old fashioned way and shop for someone online instead. And all the while Apple, Microsoft and all the others are laughing all the way to the bank as they convince us that without the latest Droid our life is meaningless. The average phone/data plan runs about a hundred bucks a month. Some more and some less. That would be around twelve hundred dollars a year for the privilege of knocking pigs off their platforms. There's a reason why your data plan costs what it does. They didn't pull that number out of a hat. What it is, is the amount that they figure the average Joe is willing to pay in order to boast to his friends that his phone has GPS.

                          Then as now "There is a sucker born every minute."
                          Last edited by NHMaster3015; 09-17-2011, 01:34 PM.
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                          • #43
                            Re: Ah yes, Solar Power

                            NHM, great post but you've opened a can of worms. Some would argue we are more advanced for all this technology, I am not one of them. Medicine has made leaps and bounds since I was a kid and yet we have more unhealthy children, adults and seniors, WHY? We have all this technology that puts the world and all it's knowledge at our finger tips and yet I think folks are more stupid than ever, so many can't do simple math in their head, know who our political leaders are, understand simple science, geography.

                            I'm a married father of two girls and as much as I do not agree with the spending, my family is part of this wasteful spending. If I was divorced I would have a cell phone with prepaid minuets for true emergencies and use a landline when necessary. I would borrow movies from my library and be satisfied with whatever tv channels I could receive on a free converter box, no more $100 plus cablevision bills. Finally, I would have a credit card for a true emergency and only purchase what I could buy with cash. I cannot do these things as a married man. I would have no peace with my wife and such behavior would be construed as cruel or "Mean" towards my children. Too many folks don't appreciate or understand simple pleasures, they must spend in order to feel compensated for any joy they experience. We are sunk!

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                            • #44
                              Re: Ah yes, Solar Power

                              In the land of the blind the one eyed man would be king
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                              • #45
                                Re: Ah yes, Solar Power

                                You can take all the money in the world ,divide it up equally among everyone & those that had money before will have it & those didn't won't

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