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Ah yes, Solar Power

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  • #46
    Re: Ah yes, Solar Power

    ...saying Bob did this...
    Hey, don't blame me. I didn't do NOTHING, and I can prove it.
    ---------------
    Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
    ---------------
    “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
    ---------
    "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
    ---------
    sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Ah yes, Solar Power

      Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
      You want to know who's fault it is? It's my fault and your fault and everybody's fault that has spent the last 50 years accumulating credit card debt and wasting their time watching flat screen TV's, downloading games and porn off the internet, facebook and twittering and texting drivel that nobody gives a crap about. It's everyone's fault that has paid more attention to collecting the trappings of wealth than they have been to what's going on in country and the world today. So blame the politicians and businessmen for taking advantage of our sloth but in the end it's OUR fault.
      I was 100% on your side until you attacked internet porn...now you've lost all credibility.
      Buy cheap, buy twice.

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Ah yes, Solar Power

        Solyndra Told White House in May It Was Healthy - WSJ.com

        And in one of the letters to the WSJ, a person that is succeeding in the Solar business in the U.S. states that they basically had a stupid plan to begin with and Chinese solar panels had zero to do with their failure. He goes on to say how those in the business new it would fail from the start. Why didn't those making the loans know?


        J.C.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Ah yes, Solar Power

          Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
          Solyndra Told White House in May It Was Healthy - WSJ.com

          And in one of the letters to the WSJ, a person that is succeeding in the Solar business in the U.S. states that they basically had a stupid plan to begin with and Chinese solar panels had zero to do with their failure. He goes on to say how those in the business new it would fail from the start. Why didn't those making the loans know?


          J.C.
          Good question J.C.. I think someone/s deserve jail time. Hard to believe they rode that much money to the ground without a few of them getting rich in the process. My kids have to pay back every cent of their college loans and these crooks can blow half a billion dollars and get off?

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Ah yes, Solar Power

            Originally posted by Alphacowboy View Post
            Tony, what was the actual cost of those panels? How long will it take to pay for the investment?
            My 2Kw solar system cost all up around $12,000.00 my out of pocket expense was $5,000.00 the federal government paid $7,000.00 the amount we paid for electricity a couple of years ago was around the some as what you are paying now 12 cents per KW but is now risen to 20 cents per KWH and is expected to go higher due to this bloody climate change crap and your greatest citizen Al #^%+ Gore as we don`t have Nuclear power plant but black and brown coal.
            How can I explain during the day I am out at work and am using buggar all in Electricity but my solar on the roof is producing today 10KW and it is not summer yet and my house with the fridge and other appliances used around 2KW so 8KW went straight into the grid at 60 cents per KW equalling $4.80 when I get home about 6 pm I will use on average till I go to work the next day around 10KW at 20 Cents costing me $2.00 so the solar system has saved me $4.80 minus $2.00 = $2.80.
            So don`t kid yourselves in the near future you will all be paying higher and higher electricity bills and the 10 to 12 cents per KWH you are paying now will seem a dream as it was with petrol ten years ago and all the screaming won`t make a differance and you will be kicking youselves for no jumping on the solar wagon

            Tony

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Ah yes, Solar Power

              Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
              tony, out here, my power is approx .10-.12 cents a kw.

              now here's the stupidity of the rebate program.

              my shop has a flat roof and is perfect for solar. the issue is if i put out $20.k in equipment, i only get credit for the same amount of power i consume.

              so in my case, my monthly power bill is $36.00 which of that only .80 cents is power used. the rest is surcharges. so as of now spending $20k and getting back .80 cents a month is stupid.

              rick.
              Rick I remember you telling me this in another thread forget about your shop roof put a solar system on your house as governments around the world are going to be forced into cutting carbon not matter what and electricity prices whether in Australia or the US are going to rise and 10 to 12 cents per KWH now will look small in the years to come as Australia is like a testing ground for the western world we have a small 22 million people an affluent society that represents a much smaller British or Amerciain society that if it works in Australia it will work elsewhere if not what have they lost nothing that is what the big wigs that run our capitalist system think
              Cheap electricity is a thing of the past and if you are not prepared to grab solar with both hands then you will be left behind whether you believe in Carbon warming or not it does do not matter its coming

              Tony

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Ah yes, Solar Power

                Spot market rates are much higher per KW than long term rates which are the ones we are paying when we buy electric from the utility for our homes. Unless you are on a demand meter your rate is know up front be it 10 or 12 or 14 cents/KW. When a utility's demand exceeds their generating capacity and they have to go out into the market and try to buy power to meet the demands of their customers they pay top dollar...could be 90 cents or more...its whatever the market will bear and that extra generating capacity that a neighboring utility might have for the next 12 hours that they can sell off goes to the highest bidder.

                Remember that electricity is a commodity that exists only in the here and now, you can not sock it away to use tomorrow or next week. Every MW produced this minute must be consumed this minute or it falls off the grid with no monetary gain, only a loss for the expense to produce it.

                This is one reason that home solar will cause the price of electric to rise. All those small solar and wind generators work great and when they are doing their thing that 2KW goes to the home and the excess goes out on the grid AND they are forced to accept it by the BPU. So how does that increase the cost of electric you ask?

                To operate efficiently the utility closely matches their base load generating unit(s) capacity to the base load (that is the number of KW that are24/7 by their customers) plus enough generating capacity to cover peak demands during the day. This is coordinated over large areas (multiple states usually) and individual utilities take orders from the a central control point on when to cut back output or they can also alert them that they need to take a unit offline and will need replacement power for x number of hours.

                Long story short your 2KW solar farm times 100,000 homes reduces their base load need significantly. So you are putting out onto he grid 2KW for an example OVER the daytime demand of your home along with everyone in your neighborhood. Thats fine on a sunny day but then a storm rolls in or some strong cloud cover or just by chance its time for the sun to set. What happens? All that nice solar power is GONE!!! But the demand is still there. You still want to cook your turkey in the over and run the AC and power your well pump right? So some how the utility has to make up INSTANTANEOUSLY for this loss of generation (your now dark solar panels). To have on line and maintain that kind of reserve capacity is expensive and YOU WILL PAY the price for it. Its not coming out of the utilities pocket. IF they don't have generating capacity that they can throttle up to meet the demand then they have to go out on the spot market and buy it from another utility. How much are you going to charge me if I tell you I need a new thingamabob installed RIGHT NOW. To be able to meet that demand from me your customer you need to know what the thing is and have one on your truck with you all the time and ready to be installed at a moments notice. That means you will burn furl hauling this thing around, maybe for 6 months, until I or someone else calls for it. Are you going to cover that expense to you in your price to me or are you going to eat it? You're going to hit me hard in the wallet no doubt. Buying electric on the spot market is similar.

                When AC power was first available to the public, the rate varied with the time of day. Day and night rates existed and I see this happening in the future as "home grown electric" gains in popularity.
                ---------------
                Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
                ---------------
                “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
                ---------
                "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
                ---------
                sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Ah yes, Solar Power

                  But the tax payers paid for more than half of your system. Without tax credits or subsidies your solar system would never pay itself back. Is it fair for a few to take tax money for these projects?
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Ah yes, Solar Power

                    Read this a week ago.

                    http://www.mercurynews.com/green-living/ci_18845819


                    J.C.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Ah yes, Solar Power

                      Originally posted by AFM View Post
                      My 2Kw solar system cost all up around $12,000.00 my out of pocket expense was $5,000.00 the federal government paid $7,000.00 the amount we paid for electricity a couple of years ago was around the some as what you are paying now 12 cents per KW but is now risen to 20 cents per KWH and is expected to go higher due to this bloody climate change crap and your greatest citizen Al #^%+ Gore as we don`t have Nuclear power plant but black and brown coal.
                      How can I explain during the day I am out at work and am using buggar all in Electricity but my solar on the roof is producing today 10KW and it is not summer yet and my house with the fridge and other appliances used around 2KW so 8KW went straight into the grid at 60 cents per KW equalling $4.80 when I get home about 6 pm I will use on average till I go to work the next day around 10KW at 20 Cents costing me $2.00 so the solar system has saved me $4.80 minus $2.00 = $2.80.
                      So don`t kid yourselves in the near future you will all be paying higher and higher electricity bills and the 10 to 12 cents per KWH you are paying now will seem a dream as it was with petrol ten years ago and all the screaming won`t make a differance and you will be kicking youselves for no jumping on the solar wagon

                      Tony
                      Thanks. I have a better understanding of your deal now.

                      Your government paid 58.3% of your costs for installation. ($12,000.00 Total. Australia paid $7,000.00-You paid $5,000.00)
                      You are paid 3x the rate of electricity you produce vs. what it costs you to buy. (You pay .20/KW-They pay you .60/KW)


                      I'm not sure we can get a deal like that in the U.S. Anyone else know?

                      Thanks.


                      J.C.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Ah yes, Solar Power

                        We have a customer who recently had solar panels installed on her home (5,380 sq ft) because she wanted to lower her electric bill. I'm not sure what she paid for the solar panel installation, but how many years will it take her to see that savings?

                        I just don't think it was worth it IMO.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Ah yes, Solar Power

                          The October 2011 issue of Handyman magazine has a very good article on home installed
                          solar power.

                          Figure it will last about 25-30 years, it could cost you about $7.00 per watt to install
                          or a typical 5kw system will cost $35,000.00 [plus]

                          You will need to remove all shade from the south side of your home. Those
                          beautiful shade trees will have to go!

                          You may need to reenforce the roof structure!!! Solar requires about 100sqft per
                          each kw of solar power generated.

                          Oh I have seen a few homes here in Phoenix metro with these electrical solar panels
                          talk about butt ugly!

                          Now if someone can develop a roof tile that is also a solar panel it could have potential
                          [no pun intended]

                          By the way back in the 1980's the big thing here was the solar water heater!
                          Today in the 2011 era most are gone and very few are installed as they are
                          again butt ugly on the roof, actually require quite a bit of maintenance,
                          are not cheap etc....

                          Now if I had a place in the middle of now where where the only way to get electricity
                          and hot water was with solar..I'd seriously consider it. I'd also reevaluate my life style
                          and eliminate unnecessary stuff like the electric shaver, electric can opener, electric tooth brush,
                          most lighting, swimming pool and spa, satellite dish ...etc .....


                          Cactus Man

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Ah yes, Solar Power

                            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                            But the tax payers paid for more than half of your system. Without tax credits or subsidies your solar system would never pay itself back. Is it fair for a few to take tax money for these projects?
                            I don`t know how your tax system works in the US but in Australia I can claim many items I use in my business as a tax deduction is it fair that the tax payer pays for these items.
                            And on reading most of the posts I get the impression that all you care about is making a profit and if you carn`t then it is not worth it yes I forked out $5000,00 but over my lifetime I forked out a lot more and pissed it up against the wall just take that new $40,000 car you pretty well have to beg the salesman in five years to take it as a trade in but my solar system will still be producing if my house is still there for many years into the future so the cost is irralevant

                            Tony

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Ah yes, Solar Power

                              Originally posted by AFM View Post
                              I don`t know how your tax system works in the US but in Australia I can claim many items I use in my business as a tax deduction is it fair that the tax payer pays for these items.
                              And on reading most of the posts I get the impression that all you care about is making a profit and if you carn`t then it is not worth it yes I forked out $5000,00 but over my lifetime I forked out a lot more and pissed it up against the wall just take that new $40,000 car you pretty well have to beg the salesman in five years to take it as a trade in but my solar system will still be producing if my house is still there for many years into the future so the cost is irralevant

                              Tony
                              I find cost to always be relevant. Your deal and payback sounds better than the ones I hear about so it might be the smart thing for you to do.

                              But I have to ask:

                              If cost is irrelevant, would you have installed the system if there were no government incentives and it only supplied your power needs?

                              Thanks.


                              J.C.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Ah yes, Solar Power

                                Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                                I find cost to always be relevant. Your deal and payback sounds better than the ones I hear about so it might be the smart thing for you to do.

                                But I have to ask:

                                If cost is irrelevant, would you have installed the system if there were no government incentives and it only supplied your power needs?

                                Thanks.


                                J.C.
                                When I look back now yes I would have bought a solar system as I did with all the water tanks and a grey water system without a cent from the government even though they were handing out money for them Governments are always prodding their citizens with the carrot and the stick and I can see the writing on the wall and as I am getting older and see retirement on the horizon and electricity costing more and more it seemed a good investment for the future I just got in intime as they have dropped the incentive from 60 cents to 25 cents for every KW sent into the grid and the subsidy on solar panels for all news commers afer the 30/9/2011

                                Tony

                                Comment

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