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  • #16
    Re: Made in the USA and Unions

    Originally posted by Flux View Post
    My long term memory is fine, I was alive but young when Jimmy Carter was President and when he had some of the highest inflation this country ever seen. The Obama administration does not seem concerned with addressing the dire issue of "inflation" caused by its "overspending and out-of-control money printing". (Jimmy Carter Jr.?)

    Pumping printed money into the stock market and handing out money to Unions is part of the problem Frank, but NOT the entire problem. I honestly don't care if a Union worker has to file bankruptcy like the rest of Americans have to do when ends don't meet. "Necessitated higher wages" regarding the Unions is part of the problem.

    It's nothing more than a conflict of interest with Democrats and Unions. Unions cry they need more money for so called middle class workers...Democrats give it to them, then the President says "we need to raise taxes and spend for infrastructure in this country". Which means we have to pay more in taxes because the so called "middle class" Union (which does not represent this middle class Plumber) needs more money because of over spending done by politicians. Then Unions kick back our tax paying money to Democratic campaigns.

    My memory is pretty good Frank.
    I hate to repeat myself and my post above mentioned the many Union members who have not gotten raises and agreed to givebacks. If you read the entirety of the post I also mentioned politicans and white collar workers who give themselves raises without any regard of you or I.
    You should care about the Union and nonUnion folks who cannot make ends meet because their losses are our losses reflected in lower property values and higher credit interest . You refuse to see beyond the whole Union hatred thing which is really shortsighted on your part. Regarding a short memory, republican administrations have overspent as well as democratic, they are both to blame. I believe we started borrowing money from communist china under President Bush. I have no problem playing the blame game and find fault with both parties and we the people. Please open your eyes not for me but to see the whole big mess. We have been screwed over by the folks we put into office for over forty years regan included. We have been screwed over white collar criminals and business leaders wise enough to further their profits by outsourcing our jobs and stupid enough not to care about the long term results. Unions who negotiated benefical contracts for their members did what they could given the economic climate of inflation. We don't have much time left to figure this all out and fix it if it's not too late already. Your attitude of taking care of yourself and the heck with everyone else is fatal for you and the folks already out of work because there is no staying safe once it falls apart. Here in CT as I mentioned above state Union workers agreed to one and a half billion dollars in concessions and no raises for anyone. Guess what happened? State legislators voted themselves a raise!! How do we get everyone on board with saving the country? If you really care about your future then it will take more than insulting and accusing Unions for the economy. We must have deep gov't spending cuts, freeze all wages and costs such as the charges tradespeople increase as their costs rise. We need to bring back businesses and jobs. Pursue those guilty of fraud. Increase taxes across the board not just the wealthy. Freeze or roll back gasoline, heating fuel, electricity, food. I like Cains 999 idea, it's radical and will shake things up. Come on Flux I'm sure there were some jews in hitler's germany who thought they were safe until reality set in. No one is safe and secure in a crumbling economy. Frank

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Made in the USA and Unions

      IMHO, unions are not the big evil empire that a lot of people want to make them to be, any more than a business that wants to make a profit. If it wasn't for unions, most of us would still be making $2 and hour under very hazardous work conditions, livng in company housing and signing over our paychecks to the company store. My father was a union machinist. I was a union machinist until I went into the military. After I got out, I helped bring the union in to the aircraft maintenance outfit I was in. My experience has been that most trades unions don't want to tolerate the dead beat any more than the management does.

      The exception is when you get into government jobs. The government doesn't care about profit. They don't spend our money like it was theirs, they spend it like its a rich uncle's. Problem is, we the taxpayer aren't rich but are still on the hook. Because the government has no financial bottom line to consider, they give away the store when it comes to benefits they agree to. No provisions to get rid of the dead beats. No minimum performance standards that must be met. How many teachers have to meet anywhere close to the standard that a union plumber must?

      JMTCW

      Go
      Practicing at practical wood working

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Made in the USA and Unions

        Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
        I hate to repeat myself and my post above mentioned the many Union members who have not gotten raises and agreed to givebacks. If you read the entirety of the post I also mentioned politicans and white collar workers who give themselves raises without any regard of you or I.
        You should care about the Union and nonUnion folks who cannot make ends meet because their losses are our losses reflected in lower property values and higher credit interest . You refuse to see beyond the whole Union hatred thing which is really shortsighted on your part. Regarding a short memory, republican administrations have overspent as well as democratic, they are both to blame. I believe we started borrowing money from communist china under President Bush. I have no problem playing the blame game and find fault with both parties and we the people. Please open your eyes not for me but to see the whole big mess. We have been screwed over by the folks we put into office for over forty years regan included. We have been screwed over white collar criminals and business leaders wise enough to further their profits by outsourcing our jobs and stupid enough not to care about the long term results. Unions who negotiated benefical contracts for their members did what they could given the economic climate of inflation. We don't have much time left to figure this all out and fix it if it's not too late already. Your attitude of taking care of yourself and the heck with everyone else is fatal for you and the folks already out of work because there is no staying safe once it falls apart. Here in CT as I mentioned above state Union workers agreed to one and a half billion dollars in concessions and no raises for anyone. Guess what happened? State legislators voted themselves a raise!! How do we get everyone on board with saving the country? If you really care about your future then it will take more than insulting and accusing Unions for the economy. We must have deep gov't spending cuts, freeze all wages and costs such as the charges tradespeople increase as their costs rise. We need to bring back businesses and jobs. Pursue those guilty of fraud. Increase taxes across the board not just the wealthy. Freeze or roll back gasoline, heating fuel, electricity, food. I like Cains 999 idea, it's radical and will shake things up. Come on Flux I'm sure there were some jews in hitler's germany who thought they were safe until reality set in. No one is safe and secure in a crumbling economy. Frank
        I'm sorry Frank, but I will never support Unions because of what they have become, and what they stand for now. The Unions make up approx. 20% of the American population, but yet they try to be the voice of the American middle class, and that's so far from the truth.

        Like it or not, human beings are not allowed to be bosses or CEO's of their own company anymore. You have employees looking at what the boss/company profits, and they feel as though that money belongs to them.So instead of being "thankful for a decent job-roof over their head- and food on the table...these folks today have gotten really greedy. My suggestion to those folks who think they are "owed" all this money, is to start their own company and do it all by themselves. The only thing you and I can agree on is wall street being part of the problem as well. But yet these same people who complain about wall street are the same exact hypocrites who invest in it and want a return on their money.

        Those freaks protesting in the streets hate corporations so freaking bad, but yet everything they practically own has come from a corporation. If we didn't have a communist in office pulling the strings behind the scenes of this freak show, this would never be a public issue like it is right now. We have a President trying to take the focus away of his failed policies and focus it in the Republicans and the rich. He's using smoke and mirrors right now trying to deflect what the real problem right now is in our country....it's HIM. This protest just didn't come out of the blue, it was a planned event and there is more to come because it's campaign season. Obama has no record to run on except failed policies and laws the majority in this country didn;t want. But yet you will get the same blowhards telling us how wonderful Obama is and we need 4 more years of this dope.

        Did you know that Obama gave the OK to send about 100 troops to Africa for a mission? Some clown is down there murdering and raping (hmm sounds like Saddam Hussein) and yet not a peep out of the main stream elites.

        I agree with you on Cain...but for some reason it seems as though Fox news doesn't want him to win. (my impression). Cain is a straight shooter, and he would tear Obama up in a debate.
        Last edited by Flux; 10-14-2011, 07:52 PM.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Made in the USA and Unions

          Originally posted by Flux View Post
          I'm sorry Frank, but I will never support Unions because of what they have become, and what they stand for now. The Unions make up approx. 20% of the American population, but yet they try to be the voice of the American middle class, and that's so far from the truth.

          Like it or not, human beings are not allowed to be bosses or CEO's of their own company anymore. You have employees looking at what the boss/company profits, and they feel as though that money belongs to them.So instead of being "thankful for a decent job-roof over their head- and food on the table...these folks today have gotten really greedy. My suggestion to those folks who think they are "owed" all this money, is to start their own company and do it all by themselves. The only thing you and I can agree on is wall street being part of the problem as well. But yet these same people who complain about wall street are the same exact hypocrites who invest in it and want a return on their money.

          Those freaks protesting in the streets hate corporations so freaking bad, but yet everything they practically own has come from a corporation. If we didn't have a communist in office pulling the strings behind the scenes of this freak show, this would never be a public issue like it is right now. We have a President trying to take the focus away of his failed policies and focus it in the Republicans and the rich. He's using smoke and mirrors right now trying to deflect what the real problem right now is in our country....it's HIM. This protest just didn't come out of the blue, it was a planned event and there is more to come because it's campaign season. Obama has no record to run on except failed policies and laws the majority in this country didn;t want. But yet you will get the same blowhards telling us how wonderful Obama is and we need 4 more years of this dope.

          Did you know that Obama gave the OK to send about 100 troops to Africa for a mission? Some clown is down there murdering and raping (hmm sounds like Saddam Hussein) and yet not a peep out of the main stream elites.

          I agree with you on Cain...but for some reason it seems as though Fox news doesn't want him to win. (my impression). Cain is a straight shooter, and he would tear Obama up in a debate.
          I touched on a lot of elements that contributed to the decay and decline of our economy and for some reason you are blind to them and stuck on Union hatred. Good luck with that. Regarding Cain, my only guess is that he is not part of the dysfunctional political machine so he becomes a threat. Maybe Fox wants a mainstream politician who won't do anything radical? Folks attacked Obama when he ran as inexperienced in politics, the same will be said of Cain. Yes, he is a succesful businessman but has no political background. I just want a new administration and a chance even a slim one that it won't be business as usual. We can't afford business as usual.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Made in the USA and Unions

            Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
            I touched on a lot of elements that contributed to the decay and decline of our economy and for some reason you are blind to them and stuck on Union hatred. Good luck with that.
            Perhaps it is you who is blinded by Union talking points through out the 30+ years you worked there. It's kind of the same talking points you hear from Obama, and the same exact talking points you hear from George Soros, and the same exact talking points you hear from Richard Trumpka, and the same exact talking points you hear from Van Jones.

            Btw, you might want to read about Herman Cain before you claim to like him. His policies are umm...not exactly Union friendly.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Made in the USA and Unions

              Originally posted by Flux View Post
              Perhaps it is you who is blinded by Union talking points through out the 30+ years you worked there. It's kind of the same talking points you hear from Obama, and the same exact talking points you hear from George Soros, and the same exact talking points you hear from Richard Trumpka, and the same exact talking points you hear from Van Jones.

              Btw, you might want to read about Herman Cain before you claim to like him. His policies are umm...not exactly Union friendly.
              Flux, that's where we differ. I am my own man and think for myself. I am open to all possibilities. You are close minded to all the things I mentioned and have tunnel vision focused on Union hatred and blind to the damage caused by all players. I'm sure you'll excuse the next President if he is republican for being ineffective. I excuse none of them republican or democrat. What's the saying, "There is none so blind as he who will not see". I am an American and I am for what is good for America, Union or otherwise. I hold no allegience to a political party, but to what will turn our economy around. I am not a hypocrit who calls for the freezing of a workers wages while promoting my own raises.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Made in the USA and Unions

                This post is going to sound incredibly stupid to some. Old-fashioned to others. Idealistic to all. And a few may actually agree. It's scattered and random but it's how I feel. Here are some of my opinions on the problems confronting America:

                I think the whole economy thing has been made way to complicated. As Americans, America's debt is ours, right? We are the people our country's employers can't afford to hire to be competitive in international trade. I agree that the companies that show record profits who have outsourced jobs should be brought into line, but the other side of that coin is that if they brought all those jobs back into the US and paid everybody what they thought they were worth, union or not, the cost of their products would go so high that their exports would die, so we wouldn't have gotten anywhere. Until we all, individually, own the debt, unemployment, and other problems and become willing to personally do what it takes, we won't get anywhere.

                In our households, we have no choice but to live on what we make. If we start getting behind, it never works to just "make more." We have to cut, scrimp, plug the leaks. It isn't fun. But it's something you just have to do. You can't go all over trying to figure out whose fault it is that your bills aren't paid. In a nutshell, if our little economy shrinks we have to shrink with it, then build it back. It doesn't happen overnight. We all have our perspective. I'm a simple person and look at the simple things. I work hard to feed my family, and that includes my wife. I believe it is my God-given responsibility. So I look around and see all the families that have lost their homes and I look at the 9 or 10% unemployment rate and I see all the other households where both man and wife work, and I think, if all those households would be willing to make some sacrifices so that they could live on only one wage instead of two, then for every household that did that another jobless household would suddenly have an income. We would all have to live simply to make ends meet, but so be it. That's part of taking responsibility. If I asked around who would be willing to do this to at least get a family back into a house, how many would raise their hand? None.

                Now, as far as the national debt, there are so, so, so many little areas where the government, Fed, state, or local, could save millions. Take schools. Teachers wages have been cut, schools are all out of money, and yet athletic programs thrive. Guess what, athletics are not a necessity. In a do-what-it-takes scenario all athletics could be cut and the money could be used for actual real-life job training. Only a very small percentage of students are included in the athletic programs, why not spend that money for something that teaches all the kids something valuable that they can take out into the real world and start helping to build back America? How many out there are willing for their school to drop their football schedule for this year? None.

                We have people who can't pay their mortgage, but can buy flat screens and pay cable and XM radio and internet and own dirt bikes and snowmobiles and boats and on and on. So they "need" a raise. How many of these people are willing to cut back to a bare minimum and get a bearing on what it actually takes to support them (without all the options.) None.

                How about if the government got out of their "contract" mentality? Every bit of work ever performed for the government is done on a contract. Every time I've worked for them I've given a way higher bid than I would have if it were a private sector project, and yet some of my bids have been accepted. How about if all government work, including infrastructure, was hired based on an estimate with a not to exceed number, but done T&M? As contractors we all know that we can do a job T&M cheaper than we can contract, because if we contract we make sure all the what ifs are covered. If a contractor came in over his not to exceed number three times within 5 years, he could be given a three strikes and your out, and not be able to ever work for the government again.

                These are just a few of hundreds of examples I see and think about every day. The point I am making is that, union or non union, if you think that you have a "right" to live in a nice pad with all the latest comforts, and that America owes it to you that you can eat at a fancy restaurant several times a week, and have some toys, and have some left over, you are sadly mistaken. It's just not there. As long as Americans keep pointing fingers and saying "there's the problem" or "they did it" and remain unwilling to face it square, then what you see will continue til it's over. We all want to see changes made to improve things and turn it around, but yet none of us want to change. At this point, folks, we're in survival mode. The American economy does not have to money to support the lifestyle that we all think we have to live. Simpy put, America as a whole isn't trying to live on what it makes, nor is it trying to become more productive. This includes Union workers, and it includes non union. If you paid your bills last year, your union shouldn't even think about negotiating for more money, or as an individual you shouldn't ask for a raise. Nobody deserves to live at ease in this economy.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Made in the USA and Unions

                  One of the problems with government spending is that those who pay (taxpayers) have little control over how their cash is spent. Heck, we don't even get to decide if those we elected to represent us deserve a rasise, THEY do that for themselves. Unless you're self employed when did YOU get to give yourself a raise ?

                  Every one of those legislators in CT who voted themselves a raise after calling for cuts in employee wages should be voted out of office.

                  As far as no one being able to live at ease in todays economy, I can't ageee completely with that. Those that planned for the future and kept their spending and debt under control in the past have every right to be at ease as far as their own finances go. They do however have to worry about how their taxes are spent now and in the future by our politicians.
                  Last edited by Bob D.; 10-16-2011, 06:51 AM. Reason: fixed a typo
                  ---------------
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                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Made in the USA and Unions

                    Originally posted by SewerRat View Post
                    This post is going to sound incredibly stupid to some. Old-fashioned to others. Idealistic to all. And a few may actually agree. It's scattered and random but it's how I feel. Here are some of my opinions on the problems confronting America:

                    I think the whole economy thing has been made way to complicated. As Americans, America's debt is ours, right? We are the people our country's employers can't afford to hire to be competitive in international trade. I agree that the companies that show record profits who have outsourced jobs should be brought into line, but the other side of that coin is that if they brought all those jobs back into the US and paid everybody what they thought they were worth, union or not, the cost of their products would go so high that their exports would die, so we wouldn't have gotten anywhere. Until we all, individually, own the debt, unemployment, and other problems and become willing to personally do what it takes, we won't get anywhere.

                    In our households, we have no choice but to live on what we make. If we start getting behind, it never works to just "make more." We have to cut, scrimp, plug the leaks. It isn't fun. But it's something you just have to do. You can't go all over trying to figure out whose fault it is that your bills aren't paid. In a nutshell, if our little economy shrinks we have to shrink with it, then build it back. It doesn't happen overnight. We all have our perspective. I'm a simple person and look at the simple things. I work hard to feed my family, and that includes my wife. I believe it is my God-given responsibility. So I look around and see all the families that have lost their homes and I look at the 9 or 10% unemployment rate and I see all the other households where both man and wife work, and I think, if all those households would be willing to make some sacrifices so that they could live on only one wage instead of two, then for every household that did that another jobless household would suddenly have an income. We would all have to live simply to make ends meet, but so be it. That's part of taking responsibility. If I asked around who would be willing to do this to at least get a family back into a house, how many would raise their hand? None.

                    Now, as far as the national debt, there are so, so, so many little areas where the government, Fed, state, or local, could save millions. Take schools. Teachers wages have been cut, schools are all out of money, and yet athletic programs thrive. Guess what, athletics are not a necessity. In a do-what-it-takes scenario all athletics could be cut and the money could be used for actual real-life job training. Only a very small percentage of students are included in the athletic programs, why not spend that money for something that teaches all the kids something valuable that they can take out into the real world and start helping to build back America? How many out there are willing for their school to drop their football schedule for this year? None.

                    We have people who can't pay their mortgage, but can buy flat screens and pay cable and XM radio and internet and own dirt bikes and snowmobiles and boats and on and on. So they "need" a raise. How many of these people are willing to cut back to a bare minimum and get a bearing on what it actually takes to support them (without all the options.) None.

                    How about if the government got out of their "contract" mentality? Every bit of work ever performed for the government is done on a contract. Every time I've worked for them I've given a way higher bid than I would have if it were a private sector project, and yet some of my bids have been accepted. How about if all government work, including infrastructure, was hired based on an estimate with a not to exceed number, but done T&M? As contractors we all know that we can do a job T&M cheaper than we can contract, because if we contract we make sure all the what ifs are covered. If a contractor came in over his not to exceed number three times within 5 years, he could be given a three strikes and your out, and not be able to ever work for the government again.

                    These are just a few of hundreds of examples I see and think about every day. The point I am making is that, union or non union, if you think that you have a "right" to live in a nice pad with all the latest comforts, and that America owes it to you that you can eat at a fancy restaurant several times a week, and have some toys, and have some left over, you are sadly mistaken. It's just not there. As long as Americans keep pointing fingers and saying "there's the problem" or "they did it" and remain unwilling to face it square, then what you see will continue til it's over. We all want to see changes made to improve things and turn it around, but yet none of us want to change. At this point, folks, we're in survival mode. The American economy does not have to money to support the lifestyle that we all think we have to live. Simpy put, America as a whole isn't trying to live on what it makes, nor is it trying to become more productive. This includes Union workers, and it includes non union. If you paid your bills last year, your union shouldn't even think about negotiating for more money, or as an individual you shouldn't ask for a raise. Nobody deserves to live at ease in this economy.
                    Good post Ken, but for Union and nonUnion folks who were just barely able to pay their bills last year, How can they make ends meet with gasoline and heating oil up a dollar a gallon? Food prices up? My water department just raised their rates 25%. I agree with your reasoning if prices were frozen but they are not. Frank

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Made in the USA and Unions

                      Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                      Good post Ken, but for Union and nonUnion folks who were just barely able to pay their bills last year, How can they make ends meet with gasoline and heating oil up a dollar a gallon? Food prices up? My water department just raised their rates 25%. I agree with your reasoning if prices were frozen but they are not. Frank
                      Come on Frank, that is the most absurd thing I ever seen you say. I never met or seen a Union worker who was struggling to make ends meet. If he is struggling to make ends meet, then maybe his priorities are not in the right order, and he's living beyond his means.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Made in the USA and Unions

                        Increasing taxes is the LAST thing that needs to be done, are you insane?
                        I pay more than my fair share of taxes. How about spending it better? How about not GIVING my money to people? Like the career government assistance people. And the illegals. And politicians with absurd salaries.

                        How about not making retarded decisions like printing billions to just give to sinking companies without any sort of regulation or oversight? You mentioned making it so small business can't charge more to counter the rising costs of things as part of your fix. How about taxing all the profit of big oil for the past 5 years? As in 100%. THAT is what started the downfall of the economy in my eyes. That is when people started losing things, customers stopped calling. Sure it may have been the hair that broke the camels back, but it sure hit home for me.

                        Instead of raising taxes how about just make it even? I was talking to a FAA worker a few months ago, and she said EIGHTY PERCENT of oklahomans didn't pay federal taxes, or state I can't remember which. Why? Loopholes like non profit and anything else there is. Hooray for you doing something good for the community, you still live under the blanket of freedom the government provides, you pay as well. Churches? Ya, piss on most of those crooked orginizations. Rich *** preachers preaching that his congregation needs to give more to the community.

                        The IRS needs to be abolished about 30 years ago. It is a scam, and it's a ****ing thief. Politicians getting MULTIPLE retirements needs to stop. I would say a salary cap of 80k for a politician. Or ANYONE that works for the government. Unless, the abolish taxes and make their own money, then sure pay what you want. But I shouldn't have to pay this crap. I am not the one making stupid decisions. Read somewhere that my share of the national debt was like 40k. What the f? Why do I have to pay someone elses debt? I pay my taxes, which are unconstitutional.

                        Fair tax, bring it. And get some REAL people in congress. Someone that actually worked for a living, and take the "politicians" and make them some sort of advisor on political things, like negotiating trade with another country, not giving themselves raises. This whole mess is just a bunch of thieving crooks that made it legal for them to do it, and illegal for us to stop it.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Made in the USA and Unions

                          Originally posted by stolen View Post
                          Read somewhere that my share of the national debt was like 40k. What the f? Why do I have to pay someone elses debt?
                          To be technical, if you're a tax payer in this country you owe $132,097.00...$47,479.00 per citizen. Guess how much the illegals pay? lol

                          Good post though...I agree.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Made in the USA and Unions

                            It's bullshit is what it is, someone needs to get a bunch of vices, and start putting balls into them.

                            Either they will fess up, and do what needs to be done, or they won't reproduce anymore. Either way we win.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Made in the USA and Unions

                              Originally posted by Flux View Post
                              Come on Frank, that is the most absurd thing I ever seen you say. I never met or seen a Union worker who was struggling to make ends meet. If he is struggling to make ends meet, then maybe his priorities are not in the right order, and he's living beyond his means.
                              You either don't get out much or live in a very tiny world? Maybe we should just agree to disagree because I am positive you don't have a clue about what's going on or how it got so bad.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Made in the USA and Unions

                                Originally posted by stolen View Post
                                Increasing taxes is the LAST thing that needs to be done, are you insane?
                                I pay more than my fair share of taxes. How about spending it better? How about not GIVING my money to people? Like the career government assistance people. And the illegals. And politicians with absurd salaries.

                                How about not making retarded decisions like printing billions to just give to sinking companies without any sort of regulation or oversight? You mentioned making it so small business can't charge more to counter the rising costs of things as part of your fix. How about taxing all the profit of big oil for the past 5 years? As in 100%. THAT is what started the downfall of the economy in my eyes. That is when people started losing things, customers stopped calling. Sure it may have been the hair that broke the camels back, but it sure hit home for me.

                                Instead of raising taxes how about just make it even? I was talking to a FAA worker a few months ago, and she said EIGHTY PERCENT of oklahomans didn't pay federal taxes, or state I can't remember which. Why? Loopholes like non profit and anything else there is. Hooray for you doing something good for the community, you still live under the blanket of freedom the government provides, you pay as well. Churches? Ya, piss on most of those crooked orginizations. Rich *** preachers preaching that his congregation needs to give more to the community.

                                The IRS needs to be abolished about 30 years ago. It is a scam, and it's a ****ing thief. Politicians getting MULTIPLE retirements needs to stop. I would say a salary cap of 80k for a politician. Or ANYONE that works for the government. Unless, the abolish taxes and make their own money, then sure pay what you want. But I shouldn't have to pay this crap. I am not the one making stupid decisions. Read somewhere that my share of the national debt was like 40k. What the f? Why do I have to pay someone elses debt? I pay my taxes, which are unconstitutional.

                                Fair tax, bring it. And get some REAL people in congress. Someone that actually worked for a living, and take the "politicians" and make them some sort of advisor on political things, like negotiating trade with another country, not giving themselves raises. This whole mess is just a bunch of thieving crooks that made it legal for them to do it, and illegal for us to stop it.
                                Great post. Fair would be a nice change, so would honest, hard working, law abiding politicians, business leaders and other folks in charge.
                                Unfortunately we have not had much of that and I don't think we will get much at the rate we are going. Thsoe fools causing trouble on wallstreet are just another welcome distraction for the bums upstairs. Who will bring us fairness with taxes and the things I just mentioned?
                                I wonder if such a candidate will make it to the top, or if we will be stuck with the same old, same old?

                                Comment

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