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  • #76
    Re: Made in the USA and Unions

    Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
    Actually with GM and Chrysler, Obama put the Union in front of the investors and tax payers to save U.A.W jobs and pensions. I'm sure this will be the way of the future and the Unions know it. If Obama is going to have a chance in 2012, he will need the Union and he knows it.

    Mark
    Agreed, but this was because the Pensions were underfunded that got us into this mess in the first place.

    The Post office is going through the exact same thing, but to be fair to them, they have been losing money because nobody mails letter's anymore. One day I see it costing $1.00 to mail a letter.

    Look at the AAUP...what's the biggest bubble about to burst in this country? Student loans! Why are those tuitions so high?

    Comment


    • #77
      Re: Made in the USA and Unions

      Originally posted by Flux View Post
      Agreed, but this was because the Pensions were underfunded that got us into this mess in the first place.

      The Post office is going through the exact same thing, but to be fair to them, they have been losing money because nobody mails letter's anymore. One day I see it costing $1.00 to mail a letter.

      Look at the AAUP...what's the biggest bubble about to burst in this country? Student loans! Why are those tuitions so high?
      The way I see it, the Unions and the Employers caused the under-funding and should have been the ones to be in the mess not the investors and the taxpayers. GM & Chrysler should have filed bankruptcy and been on their own. Instead, the same old games are being played at our expense. I'm sure glad I'm a Ford guy or I would be left looking at a foreign manufacturer for my next purchase.

      Mark
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

      Comment


      • #78
        Re: Made in the USA and Unions

        Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
        The way I see it, the Unions and the Employers caused the under-funding and should have been the ones to be in the mess not the investors and the taxpayers. GM & Chrysler should have filed bankruptcy and been on their own. Instead, the same old games are being played at our expense. I'm sure glad I'm a Ford guy or I would be left looking at a foreign manufacturer for my next purchase.

        Mark
        That's exactly the point I was trying to make Mark. The employers were stuck in a no win situation, because if they didn't cave into those demands they would of lost in the and as well.

        Comment


        • #79
          Re: Made in the USA and Unions

          Nice to see you two guys patting eachother on the back. Mark, I'm disappointed you never responded by hoping I had a good life as a working Union man, maybe you missed that post or don't want to return the sentiment I expressed? Flux, You were bragging about being self employed and complaining for not having the benefits of Union members. Not their fault for your choices in life. Neither of you responded to my post which I thought was very thorough. The switch to the auto workers was expected. Remember thaose auto workers did not design the ford pinto death trap, or the pontiac fiero fire ball, or the chevrolet pickup with the gas tank mounted outside the frame rails. The American auto industry fell from the top down, be thankful the Union saved it. Don't worry so much about the Unions, tens of Americans out of work and no solution in sight means there will be a collapse down the road. Government spending won't be reigned in, the illegal situation won't be resolved or the trade deficit. Those problems are the ones that will destroy us, but it's easier to complain about working folks who pay taxes, mortgages and your bills. Flux, I'm not pounding on my chest and braggin when I mention my free medical and dental because I stood up like a man and did something about it over the years . Come on where is that new job you keep saying is so easy to get? Frank

          Comment


          • #80
            Re: Made in the USA and Unions

            Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
            Nice to see you two guys patting eachother on the back. Mark, I'm disappointed you never responded by hoping I had a good life as a working Union man, maybe you missed that post or don't want to return the sentiment I expressed? Flux, You were bragging about being self employed and complaining for not having the benefits of Union members. Not their fault for your choices in life. Neither of you responded to my post which I thought was very thorough. The switch to the auto workers was expected. Remember thaose auto workers did not design the ford pinto death trap, or the pontiac fiero fire ball, or the chevrolet pickup with the gas tank mounted outside the frame rails. The American auto industry fell from the top down, be thankful the Union saved it. Don't worry so much about the Unions, tens of Americans out of work and no solution in sight means there will be a collapse down the road. Government spending won't be reigned in, the illegal situation won't be resolved or the trade deficit. Those problems are the ones that will destroy us, but it's easier to complain about working folks who pay taxes, mortgages and your bills. Flux, I'm not pounding on my chest and braggin when I mention my free medical and dental because I stood up like a man and did something about it over the years . Come on where is that new job you keep saying is so easy to get? Frank

            I actually do not read every posts in full (or part) especially the long ones. I have never wished anything but the best for you. As for who designed the Pinto or anything else, I really don't care. What I care about is bailing out anyone at the cost to someone else. I did not design the pinto nor did I sit at the negotiation table for the Union contracts. My business has been down over 90% for the last three years. I figure any day now Obama will stop by with a check for 7-figures to make up my short fall. I sure hope no one is offended by that as that is the new America.

            Mark
            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

            Comment


            • #81
              Re: Made in the USA and Unions

              Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
              I actually do not read every posts in full (or part) especially the long ones. I have never wished anything but the best for you. As for who designed the Pinto or anything else, I really don't care. What I care about is bailing out anyone at the cost to someone else. I did not design the pinto nor did I sit at the negotiation table for the Union contracts. My business has been down over 90% for the last three years. I figure any day now Obama will stop by with a check for 7-figures to make up my short fall. I sure hope no one is offended by that as that is the new America.

              Mark
              Thank you Mark, you are a gentleman! Obama can write all the checks and bailout all the businesses he wants, but our economy will still fail. Failing state and local economies may justify cutbacks in pay and services, but unless there is a major change in trade and jobs it won't be enough. I don't think we have the legislators bold enough to make the deep spending cuts, revamp the tax system, secure the borders, deal with the illegals and do what is necessary to bring back jobs. In my opinion we are racing to a terrible conclusion. I mentioned those cars because all the deaths and recalls attributed to the US auto industry caused many American buyers to switch to foreign makes. Our auto makers took too long to finally build competitive vehicles and lost a great deal of the market share. I'll admit there was sloppy workmanship ,but that does not excuse basic design flaws.

              Comment


              • #82
                Re: Made in the USA and Unions

                Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                Flux, You were bragging about being self employed and complaining for not having the benefits of Union members.
                Frank, you have me all wrong my friend...I'm not against the Union worker when it comes to people like you, or another tradesman just making his way in life. I'm against the Union ideas that come from the top...people not even in your pay grade.
                You probably don't remember, but I stated here awhile ago that I was approached with joining the local 690 & the steam fitters (not sure of their number) in Philadelphia. Everything sounded pretty good to me, except the part in where my Union dues wouldn't be spent solely on the people before me. I don't agree with having my money being spent on Political parties regardless of which side of the fence they stand. Politics and Labor Unions shouldn't be intertwined...and I'm against any type of special interest groups that I would be "employe" by. Plus, it was told to me which way my political leanings needed to be, if I wanted a job with the local 690. YES..it was bluntly said just like that to me.

                Now my buddy who was in the local 690 at the time, spent 10 years in there, and left because of the very same things, and more. He decided it was better for him to be in his own business, and he strongly opposed what the local 690 was standing for in the grand scheme of things.

                Nowhere here did I brag about anything...I could of chose the Union life if I wanted, and decide against it, cause I wanted to be my own boss. I also have every right to "complain" about Labor Unions when my tax paying dollars are being spent and wasted at times...as those Public Unions work for me..the taxpayer...not the other way around. My taxpaying dollars shouldn't be bailing out underfunded pensions or any other type of failing scheme...where is my taxpaying bailout when times are slow and 30% of my business is gone for the year?

                IMO..Unions just are not needed anymore, as we can create fair laws for both sides with strict guidelines that MUST be followed. We can create a grievance board made up of employees and corporate to make it fair for both sides, if such an issue should arise. There is no reason in the world that this can't be done.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Re: Made in the USA and Unions

                  Originally posted by Flux View Post
                  Frank, you have me all wrong my friend...I'm not against the Union worker when it comes to people like you, or another tradesman just making his way in life. I'm against the Union ideas that come from the top...people not even in your pay grade.
                  You probably don't remember, but I stated here awhile ago that I was approached with joining the local 690 & the steam fitters (not sure of their number) in Philadelphia. Everything sounded pretty good to me, except the part in where my Union dues wouldn't be spent solely on the people before me. I don't agree with having my money being spent on Political parties regardless of which side of the fence they stand. Politics and Labor Unions shouldn't be intertwined...and I'm against any type of special interest groups that I would be "employe" by. Plus, it was told to me which way my political leanings needed to be, if I wanted a job with the local 690. YES..it was bluntly said just like that to me.

                  Now my buddy who was in the local 690 at the time, spent 10 years in there, and left because of the very same things, and more. He decided it was better for him to be in his own business, and he strongly opposed what the local 690 was standing for in the grand scheme of things.

                  Nowhere here did I brag about anything...I could of chose the Union life if I wanted, and decide against it, cause I wanted to be my own boss. I also have every right to "complain" about Labor Unions when my tax paying dollars are being spent and wasted at times...as those Public Unions work for me..the taxpayer...not the other way around. My taxpaying dollars shouldn't be bailing out underfunded pensions or any other type of failing scheme...where is my taxpaying bailout when times are slow and 30% of my business is gone for the year?

                  IMO..Unions just are not needed anymore, as we can create fair laws for both sides with strict guidelines that MUST be followed. We can create a grievance board made up of employees and corporate to make it fair for both sides, if such an issue should arise. There is no reason in the world that this can't be done.
                  Flux, what "we" can do to make things right and what "is" are very different realities. Right now we need Unions and they need to pay off politicians the same way big business does to level the playing field. That's a lousy way for things to be but it is how they are for the present. I don't mind them telling me who to vote for because until they are in that polling booth with me I will do as I please! Next time I vote and when I vote for the President it will be republican, no matter who the candidate happens to be. Flux, your tax dollars and mine not only pay for those public Union workers, they also pay for legislators and in my opinion we have gotten a better return on our tax dollars from the Union workers. Our legislators on both sides have not done a darn thing to help any situation. I understand your upset with Unions and I hope you understand my greater upset with those who are supposed to represent us in Washington. Yes, we can cutback contract spending and benefits to all workers, but if we don't get our legislators to cut major spending, the trade deficit and figure out the job issue the cuts will never be enough. You think we are on different sides but we are both workers trying to support ourselves, families and the community we live in. My Union negotiating a better contract is no different than you raising your rates to cover added expenses and the cost of living. Yes, public Union workers work for the taxpayers, but their needs are no different in this economy. When you say just quit and get another job, it is disrespectful and foolish because no one is going to do that yourself included. You put time and effort into a job and have every right to expect longevity and income if your employer is doing well. The only reason verizon and other big employers agree to raises and benefits is to keep employees. At least that's how I understand the system from working at verizon. Let's try and stop the harsh words. I respect that you are a working man trying to do the right thing. Meet me half way and believe that all those Union folks are doing the same for their families. I am really concerned about our future and I while we can argue Unions, taxes and fairness, there are issues facing our great country far beyond them.

                  Comment

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