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  • #31
    Re: Christmas Tree Tax

    Originally posted by BHD View Post
    Why I said you should love this is that it is a form of Union ism, banding to getter to promote your cause. And to improve your income.

    Advertisement, is effective, (it may not be as much as it once was, but still is effective), you bought a ford Explorer apparently, WHY, you had the choice of many choices, and the explorer is not the most economical car out their, but for some reason you choose a more expensive operating cost of transportation, than what was avaible, out there, (the comment on fuel price), there was some thing what guided you to the car, and my guess is advertisement was a part of that in some way,

    peoples buying habits are guided many times, (yes cost may now be the main driving force) but many times the advertisement is on price. but I am sure you're a smart person that also know buy strictly by price is not the whole picture, you know quality, some what the country of origin, and even who manufactured it, and some what on past experience,

    but if you for example see an advertisement and say it is on Christmas trees, and the commercial is such that it hits a memory of your child hood or when your kids were young, it may trigger you to spend the extra for the real tree to hope to rexperence some of that memory, by buying a real tree,

    why do you think Ridgid has this web site, it is not just the goodness of there hearts, it is to sell Ridgid tools and to let word of mouth of the end user tell of there experiences with there tools, (how many K60's do you think were bought because of plumber RIcks love of the K60 drain cleaning machine? and then the others that echoed his comments,
    BHD, I won't argue that adverstising doesn't work, of course it does. Folks sticking together, another great idea, Union or otherwise. The point of my post was that no matter how much or how well you advertise beef, my dwindling income due to gasoline, heating oil and many other expenses prevents me from purchasing. The two ford explorers I bought last year were a 1999 and 1997, I knew they were 12 mile a gallon vehicles, but I also knew parts were readily available since there are so many on the road. I wanted the 1997 for my daughter who is a new driver and the explorer is solid compared to the 30mpg 4cylinder death traps. Regarding cars, if I ever had the money to buy a new one again I would base my purchase heavily on consumer reports and other consumer feedback and not advertising. I'm not the average consumer because I research most things I buy and don't rely on advertising to make up my mind. I meant no offense to the growers in my post but fresh christmas trees and steaks at $9 plus a pound are a thing of the past no matter how they are advertised. I'm sure the millions of Americans who are out of work feel the same. They are thinking how they can stay in their homes during these difficult times.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Christmas Tree Tax

      lost my thread I was typing out,

      but I understand if one does not have the money to buy some thing, and if some things are out of your reach I doubt if any amount of advertising will help, but for those who are looking at the products in the first place some advertising may swing a decision to your choice,
      I'm not the average consumer because I research most things I buy and don't rely on advertising to make up my mind.
      I think we all think were not the average consumer,

      on the beef I am just glad some one can still buy it or I would not have any place to sell my critters to, and I do not raise Christmas trees,
      I have planted over 3300 trees (about 10 miles of them) on the place, but they were junipers and cedars and some Australian pine and some ponderosa pine, not the "good" christmas tree, trees, Plant them to help block the wind around the field and buildings,
      Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
      attributed to Samuel Johnson
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Christmas Tree Tax

        Originally posted by BHD View Post
        lost my thread I was typing out,

        but I understand if one does not have the money to buy some thing, and if some things are out of your reach I doubt if any amount of advertising will help, but for those who are looking at the products in the first place some advertising may swing a decision to your choice,


        I think we all think were not the average consumer,

        on the beef I am just glad some one can still buy it or I would not have any place to sell my critters to, and I do not raise Christmas trees,
        I have planted over 3300 trees (about 10 miles of them) on the place, but they were junipers and cedars and some Australian pine and some ponderosa pine, not the "good" christmas tree, trees, Plant them to help block the wind around the field and buildings,
        I'm curious about how you would handle a drop in sales if the economy does continue to worsen? Do you raise fewer animals for slaughter or does it reach a point where it just is not profitable ? Do the growers use their power to control supply to lower the supply in order to keep up the price and demand? I figure you have to read the market much better than most because it's not as if you can push a button on a machine and stop production of your goods, you are raising animals and crops which are time and labor intensive, not to mention costs.
        Just curious since I don't have the opportunity to ask such questions of folks where I live. Thanks , Frank.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Christmas Tree Tax

          First there is very little cooperation between growers in most Ag commodities, (and it is world trade for the most part) so say we cut back out amounts, the world will just step in and fill the void,

          farming has not been profitable for many many years, as the government has controlled the production and prices most of the last 40 years,
          (when you go the FSA, (Farm service agency), and they tell you what your price support will be in January with in 2 cents, for crops that are not even planted and based on prices you will receive in the summer and fall of the next year, some thing has to being controlled,

          the last two or three years, things are different, (I really think a lot of it is the drop in the dollar) but some of it is near shortages,
          there seems to be a "base level of price" based on the world supplies, usually a 30 day world supply, and if there is more than that it settles to a basic level of price, when it gets below that level then prices can rise considerably, take a few years ago when some wheat was over $12 a bushel in January, but then dropped back down to $6 with in a few months,
          with 7 billion people now on the earth, I think we may be entering a new era in grain and food production,
          what most do not realize is that the price of crops has been flat since the early 1970's so and up until the last two years agriculture has not had a price increase for most of there production. the corn production, has increased in volume production over the last 40 years,

          most commodities producers have not had "profit" as in a industrial sense, as most farmers just hope they break even, in the corp production,
          (I think the government has controlled the prices via many things over the years, but that is a different discussion),
          and for most farmers have been keep alive via payments for living expenses and "profit".
          the basic goal of most farmers is to increase production, as if your clearing a few cents a bushel, you clear a lot more money if you have 1000 bushels instead of a 100 bushels,
          there is another small segment (basically the organic movement) to produce a quality crop, and get a bonus because of the quality of the product, (since money is tight this is not as good as it was a few years ago),

          most farmers that can not produce the crop for the market price normally goes broke and get sold out, as usually it is a slow gradual thing that eats up ones equity in the machinery and the land, so by the time you make the decision to jump ship, the ship has sunk beyond retrieval,

          the problem is the "factory" never goes out of production, as some other farmer in the effort to grow more bushels will buy/rent the ground of the farmer that goes under and there will not be a crop missed,
          thus production is never reduced to meet demand to drive prices back up to a profitable levels,

          most farmers usually start with some rented or inhered land, but most soon try to expand thus debt, machinery = debt, a smaller tractor is 100.000, a combine is $250,000 with out the headers, headers up to $50,000 planters 5,000 to 10,000 a row, and so on,


          To return $100 per acre profit, you would need to sell:
          Corn Irrigated $4.05

          Corn Dry land $4.74

          Wheat $5.75


          Corn Irrigated
          Avg. Irrigated Avg. Cost Per Acre $650
          Avg. Yield Per Acre 185

          Corn Dry land
          Avg. Dry land Avg. Cost Per Acre $170
          Avg. Dry land Avg. Yield Per Acre 57

          Wheat
          Avg. Cost Per Acre $130
          Avg. Yield Per Acre 40


          *Based on cost and yield averages shown above. Old crop figure does not include costs of storage, interest, etc. Individual cost per acre may vary.
          the current prices are as of yesterday, local here,
          wheat, $6.07
          corn, $6.09

          and they can change as much as (it think 80 cents is limit), but I have seen prices drop dollars in just a few days,

          most marketing is usually attempted on averages, some at harvest, some in January and some in the spring,

          on the cattle (some jump in and out, there is usually about a 10 year cycle on cattle, most of the people who jump in and out, have little or no grass, people who have grass usually stay in the business, many be adjusting number a little,

          If you have the land to keep in one loses less than not trying or not producing any thing,
          for example say you have a cow/calf operation, raise the calf to sell, you have costs, that relate to the land, say you spend $5000 to have the land, if I sell out it still costs me $5000 to have the land, but say I keep in even tho I am not making any profit, I may be covering my expenses, by keep and selling calves, even if there not that profitable,

          cattle are not as controlled by the government as grains and they follow the market needs to a greater extent,
          but the retail usually does not follow the market forces to the same extent, as when the prices of beef drop they do not usually follow the drop in the store any more, but they will raise it as the price of beef goes back up, (to recover there loss of the price of increasing beef prices), at one time the price in the store followed the market price,

          there are times one will change the operation and stop growing some crop and try another crop, for example the normal second crop for out area is corn in dry land, the cost of planting that corn is $170 acer, a number of years ago, I stopped trying to grow corn, and went to millet, (bird seed), my cost to put in millet is about, $35 to $40 an acer, normally it is not as profitable as corn is but corn is chancy in our country as if you do not get a summer rain you go from a good crop to 40 or less an acer, with millet if you lose the crop you have last as much, and your income is more assured, but not as great as a possible max, when I was growing corn I grew a lot more 30 bushels crops than 75 to 100 bushels crops, in the last 100 years, there has been three corn crops of 75+ off this farm, (remember about 12" of rain a year), and a lot more 30 bushels, but now the cost of production, (a bag of seed corn when I was farming corn was $35 for 80,000 kernels, less than a bushel, now that bag of corn is over $135 for the same 80,000 kernels, or on dry land less than 5 aces, irrigated about 3 aces,
          my millet cost me about $5 for a bushel of seed, and that will plant about 5 aces, most of the cost of my millet planting is tractor and machinery (book cost) as the machinery is payed for, and fuel, I save my millet for seed from the year before, and so in a sense there is no money cost, besides fuel for my millet crops, so no borrowing from the bank $13,000 to plant corn that I may not even cover the bill at the bank, so I many not make as much on a good corn year, but what ever I do make off of millet I basically keep, (this year I became organic certified, and that allowed me to sell my millet for about 1/3 more than if I would have sold it for bird seed, (it is now going over seas for people food), (if I would have been EU certified organic, I could have got $2 more dollars a hundred out of the crop),

          some comes from if your a heritage farmer or a commercial farmer as well, as the commercial farmer is only interested in making money, and are usually large corporate farms that have hired help and managers, with out an interest in the lands, they farm and much is rented, and the end user is a cooperation that is connected, and they may stop and start up and change production in a whim,

          where many of the small farmers have a land connection, and the land has been in the family for years, some times 100+ years, and my look at the land that my grand father homesteaded is different than some manager that is only purpose is to make a profit off to it is,

          I doubt if I answered your questions in a way you can decider the answer you were wanting, but I have tried to answer to what is taking place, ot the way I see it taking place,

          (am sorry my language skills and my spell check is not the best even at that, some times I will click on the correct work and I see later it put in a diffrnet word), (I have diffnret spell checks that are not working correcly for some reason),
          Last edited by BHD; 11-15-2011, 12:28 PM.
          Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
          attributed to Samuel Johnson
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

          Comment

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