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  • #16
    Re: Made in Kentucky

    Originally posted by Alphacowboy View Post
    Man CW, you sure hate the Koch brothers... Did you also know they support the allowing of gay marriage, supports legalization of drugs among other more liberal stances... And for being such greedy a-holes, I guess the fact that they donate hundreds of millions to hospitals, charities and other non political organisations.

    CW, the problem isn't square on the shoulders of the republicans, just like its not square on the democrats. Both sides are spin doctors and can spin the "facts" to fit their objectives. But, I will always side on the candidates that honor personal freedom, and respect the constitution. I can't ever respect a candidate that thinks they can just shred the very document that made us great and free. Therefor, democrats do not get my backing, anyone who thinks there is any question of what the second amendmentwill NOT ever get my vote... NEVER!
    Al Capone donated plenty of dollars to charities too in an effort to buy approval for his activities, so have to this day many other corrupt businessmen and politicians as well as criminals. Doesn't prove or justify anything to me. They are buying favors.

    I agree the 2nd amendment is not open to interpretation. There can be no debate on that, else we all surely will lose ALL our freedoms and rights in the end.
    Last edited by Bob D.; 02-04-2012, 04:04 PM.
    ---------------
    Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
    ---------------
    “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
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    "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
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    • #17
      Re: Made in Kentucky

      Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
      In yesterday's post you wrote:



      But Franki, YOU ARE? You're listening to the Republican candidates whose only common focus to date, is on beating Obama! Where's the jobs, where's the programs, where's the new taxable income? Where's the change and where is the substance to anything they are telling us. All they are doing is pointing fingers at each other and the only agreed upon goal that any of them have is to get Obama out of the White House. Even when it comes to lying through their teeth about their own involvement and/or suggestions of programs that once had, they are NOW against... simply because the Democrats managed to push it forward. What kind of leadership is that?

      In another recent thread you made it quite clear that in spite of eight years of Bush catastophy and total lack of leadership, and almost 30 years of dominant Republican fumbling, tax breaks for the rich and corporations, total failure of any kind of jobs plan, mis-management of the national budget, first-time debt under Reagonomics, and tax incentives to off-shore our jobs and other clearly anti-middle class and anti-jobs inactments by them.... you feel totally moved to give the whole thing back to their command, BECAUSE.... Obama couldn't totally correct the economy in these short three years! My God Man, how much do you really think anybody could possibly do, given the stonewalling and ineptness of our present Congress? Then, as if that wasn't enough, you finish the sentence by saying that if the Republicans can't do it in the next four years.........you'll vote the Democrats back in so they can DESTROY the country. Now if that isn't totally one-sided and fatalistic, then what is? It's like you won't recognize a single thing that the Republicans have done wrong, or a single positive from the Democrats in these last three years.

      You speak of "imminant domain" and further encentives to a pro-business society who has spent the last thirty years filling their pockets off the backs of the American worker. You feel that the controls need to be removed from business, that the taxes should be lowered, and that the poor should be cast aside. IS there not any regard on your part, to the fact that much of today's poor was yesterday's factory worker?

      Yet you speak like you really do care and that something must be done to bring our jobs back... it seems that one thought counters the other.

      So, let me add this: The economics of the last hundred years shows that when the government has a need, and opens up it's coffers, and starts spending... then the economy surges. At the turn of the century (1900) we went to war and that jump started the economy which was in a terrible depression in the late 1800's. That depression was largely due to over-paced, and unbridled growth in wealth and over extension by the railroads, mining, and banking and other Republican interests. At that time, there were the very poor, living in squaller both on the farm and in the ghetto's of the big cities. Banking and Industry was making a major effort to import as many immigrants as they could put ships... and when they arrived they worked in sweatshops, in fire-prone buildings and in filth of unimaginable depth. At that time, there was nothing more important than PROFIT to banking and business and to that end, we employed mere children, had no social safety nets, or even basic heath or safety concerns for any worker in this country. We, the great United States did nothing but enrich the rich and we did so at a cost to our people and our neighboring countries.

      That launched us into the Spanish-American war... and afterwards we had another unbridled and uncontrolled surge of gorging the rich, at a cost to the American worker; and that took us into WW1. The results of which were more gorging, and a lot of people able to jump on the unregulated "bandwagon" of investment growth for the rich. Those "Roaring 20's" did little for the working clas though and with more lack of control, overeaching by industry and banking we got hit with the "Great Depression!" That my friend is what Republican leadership and their enthusiasm of big business brought us all.

      So there we were with one heck of a lot of big business manipulation, Republican domination, and massive failure of the government to do much of anything except cut back on expenditures and create long soup lines and a world-wide depression. The American middle-class just about died in the process. But not the rich, not the big bankers, and certainly not the $Millionair industrialist. During the Republican domination of that period, we pulled out of the League of Nations, locked in France' and the UK's war reparations so they came to us as a payback for our last minute help in WW1; AND then, we invested twice as much in Nazi Germany as we did in the rest of Europe and Britain. Hey, our fathers and grandfathers... the unemployed working-class picked up the bill on that one and the bankers and the industrialists capitalised even further! We weren't making a lot here, but what we were doing was shipping lots of material, scrap metal, and machinery to far off places like Germany and Japan.

      It was only when Roosevelt came into office (a Dem) did we start seeing the government invest in the American and British people. From the CCC camps, to new infrastruture, new technologies, and stepped up to provide the Lend-Lease (CREDIT) to our allies. Where did all that money come from?

      Then, was very much like now... in that this country had little money, factories were closed, a major percentage of American workers were unemployed and without any benefits like unemployment or Social Security. Britain was on her knees, with all of Europe occupied by Hitlerism and London and other cities were under constant bombardment with thousands being killed. U-boats were sinking thousands of tons of shipping in the North Atlantic. We the people of the U.S. were without jobs, were without income, were simply without almost everything... But at that point our Government got off it's butt, got industry moving, started the Social Security program, hired our youth into the CCC, and started handing out Government contracts for guns, bullets, planes, ships, tanks, and an unimaginable list of war material. Where did that money come from?

      We not only beefed up Britain, but we hired millions of our young men and women... clothed them, fed them, trained them, and shipped them to war. And we did that to the Brits, and then to the free-French. AND, we made tens-of-thousands of products.... out of what? Where did that money come from?

      And when it was all over, we then rebuilt Europe and we rebuilt our enemies, Italy and Germany and Japan... and where did that money come from?

      The 50's and the 60's were probably the best years of economy, not only for our own country but for the rest of the world too. Everyone in the U.S. who wanted a job, got one. We sent our kids to college, bought homes, cars, appliances... and one would think, that with the massive and wasteful (we blew up or shot off or crashed or had sunk quite a bit of the last decades' government expenditures... and all we had to show for it was "FREEDOM")

      The point is that in the late 20's and early 30's we had absolutely nothing! But somehow, we financed a tremendous effort, hiring millions of workers, in both uniform and in factories across the country... we gave even more $millions to our ally and we burned and blew up even more Millions, that we then turned around and rebuilt.... and the results were three full decades of prosperity! How could that possibly be?

      The simple answer to that, is that "money" and the resulting "economy" is largely a state of mind. (And that's a good reason to not be on the Gold Standard.) When the government spends the money, it creates jobs and product. Tax revenue's soar beyond imagination, and everything grows and it's an ever increasing cycle. But it the government does as the Republican's (and the rich desire), there are only a very few who will benefit. You cut off the stream and things collapse. You take away the sharing of profits and things collapse. You greedily enhance your profits by scrapping your workforce, and things collapse. As things collapse and workers loose their incomes, the tax revenue drops like a rock. You then turn around and give the greedy rich more tax encentives and they will do as they always do... spend it on themselves, taking vacations abroad, buying foriegn cars, and other luxury items. As the middle class become poorer, they can't afford to buy from the factories at which they once worked... they're forced to buy from the cheapest places possible, like Walmart and their many "Chinese" products. That cycle is what we have been on for the last 30 plus years... it's the Republican cycle and it has been proven over the last century and a half to not work very well with it's ups and downs and financial calamities. Yes, the rich get very rich... and the middle class get very poor and they become unhappy and finally vote for the other party. But they don't learn the lesson very well, because while one party helps, it seems too busy to tout it's successes, and it's too busy to look back and point out the problems with the previous administrations. The other party, has rich friends and they spend big time to tell all us "little people" about the evils that are being done... and we believe, afterall they're the one's with the money, they must know what they're talking about... and thus the cycle begins anew.

      Guys like the Koch brothers are greedy beyond imagination. They and the others like them will do whatever it takes to feed that greed.

      Ask youself this... just in my community (and maybe yours) we have two major employers. Both of these Corporations have grown significantly in their businesses (financially in both "business" and "profit") since 1980. Yet, the surrounding community and its workforce have continually shrunk during this same period. Stores closed, buildings abandoned, workers let go, contamination and abandonment is everywhere. I could spend a whole day photographing this decline and I couldn't begin to get even half of it. So how come, under a Republican dominated period, with all of its massive financial growth with just these two industries, have we as a people and as a community suffered so much?

      CWS
      CWS, your post covered a lot of ground and history. I agree that the republican administrations have pushed their agendas and hope you will see the same of the democratic administrations including this one. I did expect more and different from the President I voted for when he had the backing of a democratic congress. He lied about many things, transparency, scalpel to the budget, the green jobs that became lost investments in failed companies. You don't want to return the keys to the republicans and neither do I but I'll be damned if they remain with the do nothing democrats. You never answered any of my questions, why?

      Who will pay for the healthcare bill? Can the America we know survive trillions more debt? How much longer can we have Americans out of work and enrich a communist power? Lastly, do you seriously believe we can afford four more years of increasing debt, no balanced budget, no plan to build nontaxpayer funded jobs?

      I believe we are sunk either way, while you think four more years of this will be an improvement. Capitalists come in both parties, so do investors. They don't care about your town or mine. We as consumers, want what we want, when we want it ,and at the lowest price. We are all like crops planted in a field, democrats, republicans, investors, consumers, and the result is a most bitter harvest.

      Don't expect history to repeat itself with a resurgence of American manufacturing, china has seen to that and our powerful EPA and OSHA sealed the deal. President Obama opened up the wallet and handed out money, but who got it and how did it benefit we the people?
      Your argument would make sense if President Obama actually did some of those things he spoke of and had a positive result. Yes, I expected more and different. Bottom line for me is that neither party has a plan, has a track record, or a willingness to do more than talk a good game. The time for talk is long gone. Give the republicans a chance to put up or shut up and lose the following election. You don't really think if they cut taxes to the wealthy that jobs will increase? I don't . We can't afford the wars, the healthcare, welfare, social security or just about any other government program. Sixteen trillion dollars in debt and growing proves we can't afford much of anything. Am I mistaken, is the massive federal debt not a part of the big equation, just like the trade deficit? We are sunk either way, confirm my projection, or layout what you believe to be the alternative under either party? Thank you. Frank

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      • #18
        Re: Made in Kentucky

        Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
        Why should there be a grace period or 'wiggle room' for something these people knew before hand they had to comply with? OK, let's do this; when the plumbing inspector finds a guy working without a license he can give him say 12 months to get a license, in the mean time he can keep working because there is no way he could have possibly known he needed a license to operate a plumbing business right? That's like saying; "honest officer, i didn't know that speed limit applied to ME too.".

        Also, remember that this is a TV show, not real life, so everything is sensationalised for the viewing audience, it has little basis in reality, just like those idiot show 'axe morons'.
        Bob, you need to do something different because we are a dying society at this rate! Did you read the rest of my post below? The EPA and OSHA have lost the battle between doing good and simply being stupid. Reply to the following, please. Frank
        "I don't expect manufactureres to get a pass to violate workers safety and outright harm the environment, but I do think there is probably much that can be done to relax the regulations. I'll give you two examples of government gone stupid in my opinion. A few years ago here in CT a student in high school broke a thermometer, releasing a few drops of mercury onto the classroom floor. The school was evacuated and hazmat teams were deployed to "clean up" the area. I remember swishing mercury in my mouth as a kid, we played with it like a toy, and no one got ill. They didn't have to evacuate the school or bring in a specially trained team. No common sense. I worked around plenty of asbestos as a fleet mechanic and as a construction worker. Friable asbestos poses a health risk, but most of the material I was around was perfectly intact. I believe much of the asbestos can be safely removed with a minimum of protection and a minimum of risk to individuals. What we see instead is this over reaction by the government which evolves into all sorts of regulations and an entire industry to address a hazard which doesn't exist. I'll throw in lead based paint for the heck of it. Millions of people grew up and lived with lead based paint without any health problems. When you actually find out how much of these "toxins" you have to inhale or ingest you realize someone is making work for themselves and not really protecting the public. Frank"

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        • #19
          Re: Made in Kentucky

          Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
          BHD, your post is accurate for why there is such a turnaround in products and why they may not be made to last. I have a slightly different spin to this discussion. I worked with telephones for many years, rotary, touch tone. units so heavy and durable they would last for decades. Growing up we had one telephone in the house, mounted on the kitchen wall and it took a few seconds to dial a number by putting your finger in the holes and spinning the dial. Technology grew and quality and durability declined. Now we have numerous cordless units in our home and they last three or four years, instead of a lifetime. My point is that much of the advanced technology is totally unnecessary, saves us very litttle and may cost us our very existence. My older model HP printer held a large ink cartridge and lasted over ten years, the new printers don't hold much ink and will probably break in three to five years. How much newer technology can we afford? Does the newer technology justify the expense and constant repurchase? I think many of us are wasteful consumers, victims of very good advertising campaigns. We are taken in by the latest gimick, we feel compelled to have the newest model so we can brag or keep up with others. If the appliances, electronics and tools we have work well and newer models won't really give us a noticable improvement, why change? I say we simply cannot afford the changing technology and required repurchase of poorly made products.My 27inch color tv that lasted over twenty five years was sufficient to enjoy the experience. Can myself and others afford a 50inch flat screen that will last a third of that time or less? Give me durability, qualtiy, dependable performace and a stable economy that does not continue to enrich a communist power. I can live with that trade off and a slightly slower, less gimicky life. Frank
          I still have one of those. actually 4 of those over built phones and two of them are hard wired, and three of them rotary, there great phones, and I like them, I also have a few cordless units,

          Now I do know how ever telephone company worked or billed products,
          but you could not own your own phone you rented it, (I do not remember the cost of the phone but it was a part of the monthly bill, and if you wanted an extension phone you payed extra for that too, and if you wanted a phone on the extension line that was extra.
          and most of the time you were on a party line, maybe up to 16 different people at one time,
          and to make the party line work they had a timer on the line that cut you off after 3 mins in an attempt to keep some one from monopolizing it, long distance was expensive,

          when they changed and broke up the major phone companies, you could then buy your phone, I think they were some thing like $35 in stead of that $1.25 rental, and you could have as many extensions as you wanted, but for the most part you still had to deal with the phone companies as the ringers were on frequencies, 20 cycle or 40 cycle or 60 cycle so only your ringer would ring and if you got the universal ringer you got every ones ring, (even at times when they went with the private line), as the voice was on different frequencies as well to my understanding,

          but for that $35 phone how many times was Ma bell recover the cost of that phone, and what was the maintenance on that phone, for many it was $0, for maybe 40 years, I would have built them to last as well, it was to there advantage,

          I really do not think Ma bell built telephones to last for our sake, but for there sake, they were raking in the dollars and continuing to rake dollar in many times over the cost of the telephone it self,

          on long distance it was not until MCI became a player and long distance dropped in cost nearly over night,

          I think some of the things MA Bell did was for Ma Bell not the customer,

          I do not know if you know how people people felt about the phone company and there equipment,
          but this is how some perceived the large phone companies.



          the large phone companies did there best at keep the status quo, for many years limiting choices and keeping the cost up to the consumer,
          Was it right for the Government to step in and break them up I do not know,

          even if the phones only past for a few years now, I know my saving in long distance easly pays the difference, and the not charging of extension phones has made my life much easier, as now most any building I am working in has a phone, (it may be a rotary phone) but that is my choice,

          yes I wish I could buy a good phone, to day, but you know there are other advantages as well, just like with a cordless in the shop, if it does get broke I do not lose much, where if it was $100 phone, that would hurt to replace,

          I think most ever one tries to make there money go farther, and to return more for there investments, you want the best return for your savings, and you wanted payed as much as you could get for your labor, when the workers went on strike it was not because you or your unions thought you were getting over payed and want a pay cut,

          Part of the problems you are discussing is because you want more value for your dollar, and you want those you care about cared for,
          and the lack of quality or jobs is and anger that is transfered to cooperations and government laws and rules and regulations, that you see has diminished the product and the work force,

          there are many many reasons, for what has happen,

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          one of the reasons the 1950 and 1960's were so good to the USA we were nearly the only country that had our industry intact and were using it to rebuild the world after WW2, when the 1970 hit the world was starting to make there own things and compete with the USA, and they had all new factories and latest technologies, we were still working with Pre WW2 factories and equipment, it made it hard to compete and keep pace, and they were and are dealing with cheap labor,


          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Different subject here but on the same line as the main post

          one of the things that some miss, is there are two major parties in this country, but
          once they get to Washington, there seems to be a desire to work for the Government not the people,
          and this is what we see happening larger government and more power fro the Feds,
          some of it is that the progressive movements of the 1900's never died, and there are elements of progressives in both parties, (that is why your not seeing much difference in the ruling of the different presidents, or when Democrats are in power or when republicans are in power),
          I think the core of the Republican party and the core of the democrats are not that much different,

          If your watching the republican primary races, who do you see being pushed by the core old line republicans, It is a Massachusetts used car salesman, (may that was to harsh, Governor),
          and a very liberal and progressive former house leader that was sanctioned for ethics and cheating on his wife,
          now the Conservative candidates mostly have dropped out and the Santorum has not made much traction either, Ron Paul is a libertarian, he is not even a republican by name.

          the Republican may be a little more Conservative in personal views and monetary policy, but when it is said and done there is not much different as there not running people who will change how Washington operates,

          (First how does the Republican party run some one like McCain for president? In congress he was one of the main opposing persons of much of the republican legislation and he under cut his party more than any one else,
          If McCain would have won last time how much different would things be, (he was one of the most liberal and progressive Republicans, all he did by picking Palin was to drag in the conservative vote, and it nearly worked),

          Who knows may be we need Ron Paul, as least there is some different thoughts,

          when it comes to politics, on both parties, I no longer know that the core values of either the Republicans or he Democrats, (I really do not think the majority of Democrats are happy where there party has gone in the last 15 years), (I know the Republicans are disappointed).
          I think both parties have been hijacked and have left there membership behind,
          Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
          attributed to Samuel Johnson
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

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