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  • Made in Kentucky

    My wife has an old IBM selectric lll typewriter she rarely uses, and sent it out for repair about two months ago. The repairman dropped it off at our house this afternoon and I brought it in for him. He was eighty six years old, bum knee and according to him "slowing down a bit". He said the machine was rock solid but like sewing machines, unless they are used regularly the oil dries up and things get damaged. I asked him where they were made and he said in Kentucky about forty years ago.

    He and I got into a conversation about how such well made products are a thing of the past, as well as the many big businesses that employed folks in our towns. Gone are all those manufacturing facilities, replaced by malls and foreign goods. The typewriter is working like new, but I wonder who will fix these old machines when men like the old repairman are gone?

    I know we have to let go of the past, let go of the old machines and tools. Some things have their time, their useful life, but I refuse to believe that applies to the American worker. I strongly believe we need to return to manufacturing, it won't look or smell like it did in the past but it will employ folks who don't have jobs. I just don't know how or if we can return to making what we consume with government agencies such as the EPA ,and OSHA applying roadblocks and a stranglehold on business owners considering such a venture? Frank

  • #2
    Re: Made in Kentucky

    Franki,

    Good post and nice old story. Unfortunately, it isn't the EPA or OSHA that is causing the problem. Not now, not in the past, and not ever. I know I'm really wasting my time with you and others who want to believe that. American industry and the Republican party surely want you to believe all of these things, but it isn't and hasn't been true!

    Let's just take IBM for example. Do you really think that they sold their PC computer interests to Lenovo, because of OSHA and the EPA? (No sense in answering, I already know you think "YES". Well my friend, I'm absolutely in the heart of IBM country. Just four miles from my home in Painted Post is Watson Homestead... where Tommy Watson grew up. The little hardware store "Hall's Hardware" that used to be in the heart of Painted Post (right about where the old Indian village used to be) was a place that teenage "Tommy" used to work.... the grandson of the owner still has the "headboard" that they saved from the old staircase with TJ Watson's signature scrawed on it.

    I grew up in the "triple-cities"... home of Endicott, Glendale and what used to be a very large and principle IBM facility... and I used to do a lot of work for IBM! IBM was the choice place to work back in the 50's and 60's and well into the 70's and 80's. But most of that facility is now abandoned. Behind them they left neighborhoods that are contaminated with an assortment of chemicals. They've done well in paying for a lot of that, but still the question remains of how much sickness has been caused. They didn't move because they were forced out by the EPA, they moved because they mismanaged the product and technology changed and the whole affair was simply over in that market. (I could give you a very long history on IBM, and the PC, and the failures within the company structure and the competition between it's various divisions and even between departments within the various facilities... but hell, you wouldn't believe it!

    What the EPA (and the NY State DEC) did do, was force IBM to come back to the area and own up to the catastrophy of thier pollution. Maybe you don't think that is right though... Sort of like having your neighbor dump all his garbage and used motor oil in thier backyard... doesn't bother you unless it gets into your pool or your drinking water. Then I'm sure you'll just bite the bullet and take on the expense of cleaning that up yourself... afterall, we do live in a free land, don't we.

    The typewriter you speak of was a great unit, one of hundreds of products made by IBM. Hey, Smith-Corona in Cortland, NY also made a great series of typewriters too... and yes, they are long diminished too... actually put out of business by IBM and their PC. Nothing whatsoever to do with the Chinese, the EPA, or OSHA though. But again, Smith-Corona left behind a few unsightly things and a lot of chemicals. EPA and DEC dealt with that too... and much of it was picked up by us taxpayers. Hey, how about Ithaca gun... yeah, all kinds of lead found there, and once again the taxpayers picked up the tab...but only after Ithaca closed the plant and walked away. None of these were forced out by the EPA or OSHA!

    So, give me an example... where exactly did the EPA or OSHA force a company to move to China? Maybe you think it's perfectly okay for a company to hoist several tons of heavy equipment with damaged chains, worn gantry wheels, and defective control systems. After all, there's only a few dozen men working in that assembly area. Maybe you think that OSHA has no business sticking their noses into the foundry where guys are supplied with breathing apparatus, ear protection, or that there is no inforcement of safety precautions and training for the employees. Maybe you think it's perfectly okay of vent systems to fail, for monitoring equipment to be off and of safety devices to be tampered with so production can continue to make maximum profits for the owners, who will not even blink when employees are maimed or killed. In China, that's not a big problem... the company simply slips the right people a few extra bucks and all will be just fine. Yeah, I can fully see why business finds it really tough in the United States.

    I live in an area that is frought with contamination.... we're in an area where Leukemia is a household word, and where we all know victims. But you won't find much of the EPA here... politics and fear. Democracy after all has it's limits, especially if you aren't a major corporation!

    So, here's another interesting story link: Koch Brothers, Allies Pledge $100 Million At Private Meeting To Beat Obama

    Now ask yourself... why does the Koch brothers fear Obama and the Democratic party so much? I bet the answer has a lot more to do with $$$ than it does their interest in the middle class and working poor.

    Yeah, I know...

    CWS

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Made in Kentucky

      CWS, thanks for the information and your perspective. I have no problem listening to other opinions with an open mnd and changing my mind. I totally agree that manufactures in America did a lot of damge to the environment and people. We can agree on that and the good that came from the EPA and OSHA. I feel that there were plenty of manufacturers that had a choice of staying here and face ever increasing and costly government mandates or leave, same goes for new manufacturers.
      My upset with these powerful government agencies is the point at which their rules and regulations become so impractical that businesses have no choice but to go elsewhere. Mexico and china are not on another planet, the pollution they create will someday affect us here. I think it makes more sense to apply common sense and reason to the application of safety and pollution rules than to lose out on opportunities and allow businesses to do whatever they want outside of our country.
      I think rather than try to pass cap and trade which would have caused a further burden to our businesses, consumers, and economy, the administration should have been proactive in having the EPA and OSHA review some of their rules to encourage businesses to stay and new businesses to invest here.
      This goes back to a comment I made regarding how the british troops fought like gentlemen in straight formations, they might have looked proper but they lost the war. We can either have a pristine landscape and strive for an idealic future which will surely seal our doom, or we can accept less than perfection and live to improve things.

      CWS, if you knew fast foods were unhealthy but the choice was to eat them or starve, what would you do? We have choices to make, deal with our own devils or deal with a certain future of economic disaster, leaving us at the mercy of a communist master. There is no doubt in my mind that the republican candidate and party receives financial support from people and businesses with their own agenda. The same is true of the democrats, and neither party really has we the people or our country ahead of their own agenda. You think I'm brainwashed by conservative rhetoric, but I have formed my own conclusions based on what I have seen of both parties, and what I have lived and learned over the years. Can we deny the urgency of our situation? Can we accept four more years of the same? I don't expect change from the republicans, but I will hand them the keys to the car rather than have the current driver behind the wheel. We may be damned either way, probably are, but these are serious, desperate time and I cannot accept anymore grand speeches without substance. Frank

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Made in Kentucky

        My upset with these powerful government agencies is the point at which their rules and regulations
        become so impractical that businesses have no choice but to go elsewhere.
        Can you give any examples of this condition? 'Impractical' is a two-headed coin; there is a loser
        for every winner. The best solution would seem to be where each side 'wins' half the time so to speak.

        I think profit margins have more to do with relocation decisions than safety or environmental regulations. And when
        safety and environmental do figure into the equation, its because corporations are not willing to reduce their profits
        and spend the money necessary to protect the environment or the health and safety or their workforce.
        ---------------
        Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
        ---------------
        “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
        ---------
        "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
        ---------
        sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Made in Kentucky

          This thread has the ingredients for one great tennis match.
          Teach your kids about taxes..........eat 30 percent of their ice cream.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Made in Kentucky

            I'm heading out to check out some greenhouses today "and hit up bass pro" But I wanted to drop in and say that I respect where both of your opinions come from. but I think the problem with the EPA is that it isn't strict enough. what's the point in making a better financial life for our citizens if our quality of life falls to the levels of an industrial city in china?
            No, it's not rocket science, it's plumbing and unlike rocket science it requires a license.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Made in Kentucky

              Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
              Can you give any examples of this condition? 'Impractical' is a two-headed coin; there is a loser
              for every winner. The best solution would seem to be where each side 'wins' half the time so to speak.

              I think profit margins have more to do with relocation decisions than safety or environmental regulations. And when
              safety and environmental do figure into the equation, its because corporations are not willing to reduce their profits
              and spend the money necessary to protect the environment or the health and safety or their workforce.
              Bob, I can't give specific examples off the top of my head, but given time I think I could probably prove how the regulations evolved to the point I assert. Profit margin will always be the bottom line for business people, but when the President himself suggests these government organizations review their policies I believe there is room for improvement. Recently on the tv program "gold rush" safety inspectors from the US mining dept made surprise inspections of the mining sites made popular. They found safety violations and insisted all workers have "required" training before they could resume work. There was no grace period, no wiggle room, just shut it down regardless of the fact that they had been doing fine without these inspectors for years. That kind of government intervention is an example of the atmosphere and attitude that needs to change. I don't expect manufactureres to get a pass to violate workers safety and outright harm the environment, but I do think there is probably much that can be done to relax the regulations. I'll give you two examples of government gone stupid in my opinion. A few years ago here in CT a student in high school broke a thermometer, releasing a few drops of mercury onto the classroom floor. The school was evacuated and hazmat teams were deployed to "clean up" the area. I remember swishing mercury in my mouth as a kid, we played with it like a toy, and no one got ill. They didn't have to evacuate the school or bring in a specially trained team. No common sense. I worked around plenty of asbestos as a fleet mechanic and as a construction worker. Friable asbestos poses a health risk, but most of the material I was around was perfectly intact. I believe much of the asbestos can be safely removed with a minimum of protection and a minimum of risk to individuals. What we see instead is this over reaction by the government which evolves into all sorts of regulations and an entire industry to address a hazard which doesn't exist. I'll throw in lead based paint for the heck of it. Millions of people grew up and lived with lead based paint without any health problems. When you actually find out how much of these "toxins" you have to inhale or ingest you realize someone is making work for themselves and not really protecting the public. Frank

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Made in Kentucky

                the reason why the typewriter is not made any more or in very limited quantities is technology, I really doubt if government agency had little to do with it,

                the reason they do not make many items like a tank anymore is simply the speed of technology, I have a Old 1624 Panasonic impact printer I bought with my old 386 computer, it is built like your typewriter, (do you know the effort I had to find a newer computer that had a parallel port for that printer was),
                I was in a store the other day and a guy had a printer in his cart it was wireless,

                the product is obsolete by the time it is sold today, the "new and the better", is in the works before the item is manufactured,
                look at the explosion of smart phones and tablets,

                why build some thing to last for 30 years if it will be replaced in a year, or 6 months,

                If you think back on the growth of the desk top computer, they were coming out with a faster chip ever few months, and some new machine,

                the other thing is if you will re-buy it ever few years why build it better,

                when the typewriter came out it was king of the hill for nearly 80 years, now if there uses at all there only used for filling out some forms,

                IMO this world seems to run a logarithmic scales similar to the OLD "slide rule", you remember before calculators, the numbers were wide spaced on one side of the scale and very close on the other,

                Change is like that in various areas of life, or existence,
                look at weapons, at first it was Rock or a club, then pointed sticks sharpened on a rock, and then rocks that had been sharpened tied to the ends of sticks, and then a way of propelling the sticks and a way to help them fly straight, then various metals were found and pounded into sharp pointy things, and then gun powder, and the projectile were smaller, now we have come up with flying machines and bombs that can bury them self in the earth and blow up things 100 of feet in the earth, as well as destroying a major city with one little bomb,

                the same thing with machines in general

                how about transportation, in the last 200 years, (my dad grew up with horses, and I have a picture of him standing in front of the space shuttle),

                currently just about any area one looks there is massive change taking place,

                I am sure the buggy whip maker was not happy with Henry Ford, or Aermotor, Baker Dempster windmill company's was thrilled with Rural electrification,

                Look at power tool changes, you have existed thought most of the hand power tool evolution your self,

                I think were at a place in history that change is taking place very rapidly, and some of us are like the old buggy whip maker, shaking there head, wondering what happened, I still make the best whips around but no one wants them I want to time to reverse and go back to horses and buggies, (look at all the industries that went under because of Henry fords invention),
                buggy makers, wagon makers, saddle makers, harness makers, feed suppliers, livery stables, horse trainers, blacksmiths, sanitation workers, probably many many more that lost jobs and businesses because of the changes,
                Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                attributed to Samuel Johnson
                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Made in Kentucky

                  That's my feelings as well frank. Here's the deal, there is no "middle ground" to these people, they think they can force a company into a completely void of risk zone... It's not possible, and never will be. We can't legislate out risk in our lives. Just getting out of bed could kill you with the wrong step. I don't know where we went wrong in this country, but it seems we have become afraid of risk, afraid of life. We are becoming a country of people who all want trophies, the don't like risk, are all afraid of the simple cold/flu, and think everything should be perfectly level and equal... That's not reality, and never will be. There will always be risk, there will always be "unfair" situations, and there is ALWAYS a winner and loser in every situation, a "win win" senario is a pipe dream at best. What surprises me is the fear of death in this country.... Over the years, the growing fear of dying is astounding. I swear our government is trying to legislate death into a corner... Seatbelt laws, anti-smoking laws, anti-fat laws, diet laws, safety laws, it just doesn't stop. Maybe its the lack of faith that is growing in the states, people fearing death as they think today is all they got. I haven't put a finger on it yet, but I can't help but think that it has to do with a godless movement that believes that we control everything and not someone upstairs. Anyway, I'm not saying that wrecklessness is a good thing and the companies should be let run free, but for goodness sakes, where the hell has common sense gone? I swear we killed it out of "making the world a better place" montra....

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Made in Kentucky

                    Originally posted by BHD View Post
                    the reason why the typewriter is not made any more or in very limited quantities is technology, I really doubt if government agency had little to do with it,

                    the reason they do not make many items like a tank anymore is simply the speed of technology, I have a Old 1624 Panasonic impact printer I bought with my old 386 computer, it is built like your typewriter, (do you know the effort I had to find a newer computer that had a parallel port for that printer was),
                    I was in a store the other day and a guy had a printer in his cart it was wireless,

                    the product is obsolete by the time it is sold today, the "new and the better", is in the works before the item is manufactured,
                    look at the explosion of smart phones and tablets,

                    why build some thing to last for 30 years if it will be replaced in a year, or 6 months,

                    If you think back on the growth of the desk top computer, they were coming out with a faster chip ever few months, and some new machine,

                    the other thing is if you will re-buy it ever few years why build it better,

                    when the typewriter came out it was king of the hill for nearly 80 years, now if there uses at all there only used for filling out some forms,

                    IMO this world seems to run a logarithmic scales similar to the OLD "slide rule", you remember before calculators, the numbers were wide spaced on one side of the scale and very close on the other,

                    Change is like that in various areas of life, or existence,
                    look at weapons, at first it was Rock or a club, then pointed sticks sharpened on a rock, and then rocks that had been sharpened tied to the ends of sticks, and then a way of propelling the sticks and a way to help them fly straight, then various metals were found and pounded into sharp pointy things, and then gun powder, and the projectile were smaller, now we have come up with flying machines and bombs that can bury them self in the earth and blow up things 100 of feet in the earth, as well as destroying a major city with one little bomb,

                    the same thing with machines in general

                    how about transportation, in the last 200 years, (my dad grew up with horses, and I have a picture of him standing in front of the space shuttle),

                    currently just about any area one looks there is massive change taking place,

                    I am sure the buggy whip maker was not happy with Henry Ford, or Aermotor, Baker Dempster windmill company's was thrilled with Rural electrification,

                    Look at power tool changes, you have existed thought most of the hand power tool evolution your self,

                    I think were at a place in history that change is taking place very rapidly, and some of us are like the old buggy whip maker, shaking there head, wondering what happened, I still make the best whips around but no one wants them I want to time to reverse and go back to horses and buggies, (look at all the industries that went under because of Henry fords invention),
                    buggy makers, wagon makers, saddle makers, harness makers, feed suppliers, livery stables, horse trainers, blacksmiths, sanitation workers, probably many many more that lost jobs and businesses because of the changes,
                    BHD, your post is accurate for why there is such a turnaround in products and why they may not be made to last. I have a slightly different spin to this discussion. I worked with telephones for many years, rotary, touch tone. units so heavy and durable they would last for decades. Growing up we had one telephone in the house, mounted on the kitchen wall and it took a few seconds to dial a number by putting your finger in the holes and spinning the dial. Technology grew and quality and durability declined. Now we have numerous cordless units in our home and they last three or four years, instead of a lifetime. My point is that much of the advanced technology is totally unnecessary, saves us very litttle and may cost us our very existence. My older model HP printer held a large ink cartridge and lasted over ten years, the new printers don't hold much ink and will probably break in three to five years. How much newer technology can we afford? Does the newer technology justify the expense and constant repurchase? I think many of us are wasteful consumers, victims of very good advertising campaigns. We are taken in by the latest gimick, we feel compelled to have the newest model so we can brag or keep up with others. If the appliances, electronics and tools we have work well and newer models won't really give us a noticable improvement, why change? I say we simply cannot afford the changing technology and required repurchase of poorly made products.My 27inch color tv that lasted over twenty five years was sufficient to enjoy the experience. Can myself and others afford a 50inch flat screen that will last a third of that time or less? Give me durability, qualtiy, dependable performace and a stable economy that does not continue to enrich a communist power. I can live with that trade off and a slightly slower, less gimicky life. Frank

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Made in Kentucky

                      My grand kids love the old IBM Selectric III. My wife buys used ones for $5-$10 a piece at thrift stores. They abuse the heck out of them but when they do break, she throws it away and buys another one. The IBM Selectric III is of limited technology and there are tons of them available at $5-$10 a piece at thrift stores. How can IBM compete with that?

                      Mark
                      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Made in Kentucky

                        In yesterday's post you wrote:

                        Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                        We may be damned either way, probably are, but these are serious, desperate time and I cannot accept anymore grand speeches without substance. Frank


                        But Franki, YOU ARE? You're listening to the Republican candidates whose only common focus to date, is on beating Obama! Where's the jobs, where's the programs, where's the new taxable income? Where's the change and where is the substance to anything they are telling us. All they are doing is pointing fingers at each other and the only agreed upon goal that any of them have is to get Obama out of the White House. Even when it comes to lying through their teeth about their own involvement and/or suggestions of programs that once had, they are NOW against... simply because the Democrats managed to push it forward. What kind of leadership is that?

                        In another recent thread you made it quite clear that in spite of eight years of Bush catastophy and total lack of leadership, and almost 30 years of dominant Republican fumbling, tax breaks for the rich and corporations, total failure of any kind of jobs plan, mis-management of the national budget, first-time debt under Reagonomics, and tax incentives to off-shore our jobs and other clearly anti-middle class and anti-jobs inactments by them.... you feel totally moved to give the whole thing back to their command, BECAUSE.... Obama couldn't totally correct the economy in these short three years! My God Man, how much do you really think anybody could possibly do, given the stonewalling and ineptness of our present Congress? Then, as if that wasn't enough, you finish the sentence by saying that if the Republicans can't do it in the next four years.........you'll vote the Democrats back in so they can DESTROY the country. Now if that isn't totally one-sided and fatalistic, then what is? It's like you won't recognize a single thing that the Republicans have done wrong, or a single positive from the Democrats in these last three years.

                        You speak of "imminant domain" and further encentives to a pro-business society who has spent the last thirty years filling their pockets off the backs of the American worker. You feel that the controls need to be removed from business, that the taxes should be lowered, and that the poor should be cast aside. IS there not any regard on your part, to the fact that much of today's poor was yesterday's factory worker?

                        Yet you speak like you really do care and that something must be done to bring our jobs back... it seems that one thought counters the other.

                        So, let me add this: The economics of the last hundred years shows that when the government has a need, and opens up it's coffers, and starts spending... then the economy surges. At the turn of the century (1900) we went to war and that jump started the economy which was in a terrible depression in the late 1800's. That depression was largely due to over-paced, and unbridled growth in wealth and over extension by the railroads, mining, and banking and other Republican interests. At that time, there were the very poor, living in squaller both on the farm and in the ghetto's of the big cities. Banking and Industry was making a major effort to import as many immigrants as they could put ships... and when they arrived they worked in sweatshops, in fire-prone buildings and in filth of unimaginable depth. At that time, there was nothing more important than PROFIT to banking and business and to that end, we employed mere children, had no social safety nets, or even basic heath or safety concerns for any worker in this country. We, the great United States did nothing but enrich the rich and we did so at a cost to our people and our neighboring countries.

                        That launched us into the Spanish-American war... and afterwards we had another unbridled and uncontrolled surge of gorging the rich, at a cost to the American worker; and that took us into WW1. The results of which were more gorging, and a lot of people able to jump on the unregulated "bandwagon" of investment growth for the rich. Those "Roaring 20's" did little for the working clas though and with more lack of control, overeaching by industry and banking we got hit with the "Great Depression!" That my friend is what Republican leadership and their enthusiasm of big business brought us all.

                        So there we were with one heck of a lot of big business manipulation, Republican domination, and massive failure of the government to do much of anything except cut back on expenditures and create long soup lines and a world-wide depression. The American middle-class just about died in the process. But not the rich, not the big bankers, and certainly not the $Millionair industrialist. During the Republican domination of that period, we pulled out of the League of Nations, locked in France' and the UK's war reparations so they came to us as a payback for our last minute help in WW1; AND then, we invested twice as much in Nazi Germany as we did in the rest of Europe and Britain. Hey, our fathers and grandfathers... the unemployed working-class picked up the bill on that one and the bankers and the industrialists capitalised even further! We weren't making a lot here, but what we were doing was shipping lots of material, scrap metal, and machinery to far off places like Germany and Japan.

                        It was only when Roosevelt came into office (a Dem) did we start seeing the government invest in the American and British people. From the CCC camps, to new infrastruture, new technologies, and stepped up to provide the Lend-Lease (CREDIT) to our allies. Where did all that money come from?

                        Then, was very much like now... in that this country had little money, factories were closed, a major percentage of American workers were unemployed and without any benefits like unemployment or Social Security. Britain was on her knees, with all of Europe occupied by Hitlerism and London and other cities were under constant bombardment with thousands being killed. U-boats were sinking thousands of tons of shipping in the North Atlantic. We the people of the U.S. were without jobs, were without income, were simply without almost everything... But at that point our Government got off it's butt, got industry moving, started the Social Security program, hired our youth into the CCC, and started handing out Government contracts for guns, bullets, planes, ships, tanks, and an unimaginable list of war material. Where did that money come from?

                        We not only beefed up Britain, but we hired millions of our young men and women... clothed them, fed them, trained them, and shipped them to war. And we did that to the Brits, and then to the free-French. AND, we made tens-of-thousands of products.... out of what? Where did that money come from?

                        And when it was all over, we then rebuilt Europe and we rebuilt our enemies, Italy and Germany and Japan... and where did that money come from?

                        The 50's and the 60's were probably the best years of economy, not only for our own country but for the rest of the world too. Everyone in the U.S. who wanted a job, got one. We sent our kids to college, bought homes, cars, appliances... and one would think, that with the massive and wasteful (we blew up or shot off or crashed or had sunk quite a bit of the last decades' government expenditures... and all we had to show for it was "FREEDOM")

                        The point is that in the late 20's and early 30's we had absolutely nothing! But somehow, we financed a tremendous effort, hiring millions of workers, in both uniform and in factories across the country... we gave even more $millions to our ally and we burned and blew up even more Millions, that we then turned around and rebuilt.... and the results were three full decades of prosperity! How could that possibly be?

                        The simple answer to that, is that "money" and the resulting "economy" is largely a state of mind. (And that's a good reason to not be on the Gold Standard.) When the government spends the money, it creates jobs and product. Tax revenue's soar beyond imagination, and everything grows and it's an ever increasing cycle. But it the government does as the Republican's (and the rich desire), there are only a very few who will benefit. You cut off the stream and things collapse. You take away the sharing of profits and things collapse. You greedily enhance your profits by scrapping your workforce, and things collapse. As things collapse and workers loose their incomes, the tax revenue drops like a rock. You then turn around and give the greedy rich more tax encentives and they will do as they always do... spend it on themselves, taking vacations abroad, buying foriegn cars, and other luxury items. As the middle class become poorer, they can't afford to buy from the factories at which they once worked... they're forced to buy from the cheapest places possible, like Walmart and their many "Chinese" products. That cycle is what we have been on for the last 30 plus years... it's the Republican cycle and it has been proven over the last century and a half to not work very well with it's ups and downs and financial calamities. Yes, the rich get very rich... and the middle class get very poor and they become unhappy and finally vote for the other party. But they don't learn the lesson very well, because while one party helps, it seems too busy to tout it's successes, and it's too busy to look back and point out the problems with the previous administrations. The other party, has rich friends and they spend big time to tell all us "little people" about the evils that are being done... and we believe, afterall they're the one's with the money, they must know what they're talking about... and thus the cycle begins anew.

                        Guys like the Koch brothers are greedy beyond imagination. They and the others like them will do whatever it takes to feed that greed.

                        Ask youself this... just in my community (and maybe yours) we have two major employers. Both of these Corporations have grown significantly in their businesses (financially in both "business" and "profit") since 1980. Yet, the surrounding community and its workforce have continually shrunk during this same period. Stores closed, buildings abandoned, workers let go, contamination and abandonment is everywhere. I could spend a whole day photographing this decline and I couldn't begin to get even half of it. So how come, under a Republican dominated period, with all of its massive financial growth with just these two industries, have we as a people and as a community suffered so much?

                        CWS
                        Last edited by CWSmith; 02-04-2012, 01:23 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Made in Kentucky

                          Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                          .... I asked him where they were made and he said in Kentucky about forty years ago.
                          Most manufacturers these days would be horrified at the thought that their junk might last forty years.
                          "HONK if you've never seen a gun fired from a moving Harley"

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                          • #14
                            Re: Made in Kentucky

                            Man CW, you sure hate the Koch brothers... Did you also know they support the allowing of gay marriage, supports legalization of drugs among other more liberal stances... And for being such greedy a-holes, I guess the fact that they donate hundreds of millions to hospitals, charities and other non political organisations.

                            CW, the problem isn't square on the shoulders of the republicans, just like its not square on the democrats. Both sides are spin doctors and can spin the "facts" to fit their objectives. But, I will always side on the candidates that honor personal freedom, and respect the constitution. I can't ever respect a candidate that thinks they can just shred the very document that made us great and free. Therefor, democrats do not get my backing, anyone who thinks there is any question of what the second amendmentwill NOT ever get my vote... NEVER!

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                            • #15
                              Re: Made in Kentucky

                              Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                              Bob, I can't give specific examples off the top of my head, but given time I think I could probably prove how the regulations evolved to the point I assert. Profit margin will always be the bottom line for business people, but when the President himself suggests these government organizations review their policies I believe there is room for improvement. Recently on the tv program "gold rush" safety inspectors from the US mining dept made surprise inspections of the mining sites made popular. They found safety violations and insisted all workers have "required" training before they could resume work. There was no grace period, no wiggle room, just shut it down regardless of the fact that they had been doing fine without these inspectors for years. That kind of government intervention is an example of the atmosphere and attitude that needs to change. I don't expect manufactureres to get a pass to violate workers safety and outright harm the environment, but I do think there is probably much that can be done to relax the regulations. I'll give you two examples of government gone stupid in my opinion. A few years ago here in CT a student in high school broke a thermometer, releasing a few drops of mercury onto the classroom floor. The school was evacuated and hazmat teams were deployed to "clean up" the area. I remember swishing mercury in my mouth as a kid, we played with it like a toy, and no one got ill. They didn't have to evacuate the school or bring in a specially trained team. No common sense. I worked around plenty of asbestos as a fleet mechanic and as a construction worker. Friable asbestos poses a health risk, but most of the material I was around was perfectly intact. I believe much of the asbestos can be safely removed with a minimum of protection and a minimum of risk to individuals. What we see instead is this over reaction by the government which evolves into all sorts of regulations and an entire industry to address a hazard which doesn't exist. I'll throw in lead based paint for the heck of it. Millions of people grew up and lived with lead based paint without any health problems. When you actually find out how much of these "toxins" you have to inhale or ingest you realize someone is making work for themselves and not really protecting the public. Frank
                              Why should there be a grace period or 'wiggle room' for something these people knew before hand they had to comply with? OK, let's do this; when the plumbing inspector finds a guy working without a license he can give him say 12 months to get a license, in the mean time he can keep working because there is no way he could have possibly known he needed a license to operate a plumbing business right? That's like saying; "honest officer, i didn't know that speed limit applied to ME too.".

                              Also, remember that this is a TV show, not real life, so everything is sensationalised for the viewing audience, it has little basis in reality, just like those idiot show 'axe morons'.
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