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  • #31
    Re: Doomsday Preppers

    I actually like the idea of having a hand well pump. I forgot all about those bad boys.

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    • #32
      Re: Doomsday Preppers

      BHD,

      Great post and so very true. Our society has changed dramatically over the last 50 years of so.

      I'm 67 now and while I like to think that isn't terribly old, it still puts me on the downside of life's adventure. You know, I've always considered myself to be a very lucky guy in that life of mine. Not that I've been "fortunate" in the way of material riches or anything close to that... but more because I have lived a life and in a family situation where I've experienced an awful lot of the changes that have taken place. With many other families I don't think those experiences would have been as wide and thorough.

      My grandparents grew up through the change of centurys (1900) and that was the time when America was growing up and becoming an international power. I loved the stories and remember them all very well, when Binghamton was the center of a lumber empire, when cigar manufacturing was a major business here, and when European immigration was rampant. They suffered through a time of no social safetynets, when electricity and phone service was in it's infancy, expecially in rural areas. It was a time when children still worked in factories and the fields and when things like outhouses, hand-operated well pumps, and having your own vegetable garden and chickens was common place. My grandfather immigrated from Germany, where he and his dad were crystal makers for Kaiser Welhelm. His stories of Europe and the coming war (WWI) were always a fascination to me.

      My maternal grandparents were dirt-poor in the south, when the N-word was as common place as "Hispanic" and "whites only" was more common than seeing Stop signs. Poor and outcast brings it's own sense of "independance" and you knew that the one common thread of survival was the "family". Nothing else was there.

      My Dad and all of his brothers suffered through the great depression, served in the War (WWII) and raised their families through the 50's and 60's. There was never talk of the war's experience in battle, but there were many stories of growing up and the independance and the responsibilities that they all shared in their youth and there were of course the stories of getting by with the shortages, the scrap drives, and the coping with the weather when the boys were off in Europe and the Pacific. Life was tough on all fronts and this Depression generation knew well how to deal with it all.

      I feel lucky in being part of that, witnessing some of it first hand, but learning much more just by listening. I learned the independance and steadfastness of these relatives and share much of that in my own character I think. There's a certain responsibility that we learned; taking care of family, the house, the car, the stuff in the shop, etc. "Real Men" fix things (or so my father used to scold me), and we don't throw stuff out just because it doesn't work so well... we fix it and use it until it can't be fixed.

      I like being "my own man", so to speak. Fixing things that I can. Knowing how to live or survive without help at every turn and being prepared as best as one can for the little turns that life presents us. Perhaps it's the "boy" in me, I don't really know... but when there's bad weather, the heavy snow, the lights go out, or whatever; there's something inside be that comes alive, surface's and steps forward. It's like something is there that jumps out and says, "Hey, I know how to do that; I've got "stuff", let me help get the lights back on, let me help the neighbor, let me provide!"

      Unfortunately, I don't see much of that in most people these days. Too many brains tied to thier electronics, and if the power goes, they're blinded and hog-tied. Certainly there are technologies that them capabilities that weren't even imagined in my generation's youth. But should these things fail, what will become of them? I look at recent events where a minor clitch took out just their cell phones, and it like "panic in the park time". What would happend if some unforseen event took out all of our electronics? I can't begin to imagine. But fortunately, there are still many resolute young "outdoorsman" who know and hopefully they are spread among the rest.... HOPEFULLY!

      CWS
      Last edited by CWSmith; 02-19-2012, 12:06 PM.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Doomsday Preppers

        Originally posted by Flux View Post
        I actually like the idea of having a hand well pump. I forgot all about those bad boys.
        Provided your source of water is not too deep they will work. Otherwise you'd need a deep
        well hand pump which is not as easily stowed for emergencies.

        I think a hand pump or 'pitcher pump' will get you about 30 some feet down IIRC.
        "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
        John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Doomsday Preppers

          A hand pump with a cyclinder under it is good for about 100" to maybe 150' if all is sized properly. the pump is basicly a stand for the handle and spout, the pump is under in the water, and a sucker rod is used to connect the pump to the handle. but one needs a well.
          Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
          attributed to Samuel Johnson
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Doomsday Preppers

            Well there would be a limit to the weight of the water one could lift by hand. I guess a smaller diameter pipe would result in lifting less weight since the volume would be less.

            My water is at about 90 feet. I know I could rig a way to get water out of the 4" casing even w/o a pump. Might not get a large volume, but enough to stay alive. Now if it were such that I could not get outside to the head of the well (say because of radioactive fallout since I am in the plume path for a local nuke plant depending on which way the wind is blowing) then that might be a problem.
            "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
            John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Doomsday Preppers

              Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
              Well there would be a limit to the weight of the water one could lift by hand. I guess a smaller diameter pipe would result in lifting less weight since the volume would be less.

              My water is at about 90 feet. I know I could rig a way to get water out of the 4" casing even w/o a pump. Might not get a large volume, but enough to stay alive. Now if it were such that I could not get outside to the head of the well (say because of radioactive fallout since I am in the plume path for a local nuke plant depending on which way the wind is blowing) then that might be a problem.
              if your having fall out because of a reactor breach your not going to have to worry about the well as our going to have to bug out, as the decay rates for raw materials Will be a very long time, Like Chernobyl or now Japan, if it is from a nuke bomb your left over materials has a high decay rate usually in weeks, (or that is what the government taught in the 50's and 60's through the Civil defense programs)

              If that is the issue then consider a solar powered pump in the well, and have a bicycle modified with a generator on it that one could pedal if the panels would get destroyed damaged or stolen.

              This is just an example Shurflo 9300 Submersible 12-24 VDC Pump - Shurflo 9300 Submersible Solar Water Well Pump 12 - 24 VDC 9325-043-101

              The cost of a hand pump is not at all low cost, your looking in the $1500 range for the materials. Hand pumps to pump water by hand to furnish drinking water from wells and cisterns

              `````````````````````````

              the diameter of the pipe will not make the pump harder or easer, the diameter of the cylinder will make the difference, you could have one pump with a 3" pipe and one with a 3/4" pipe and if they both had the same cylinder under the pipe and depth was the same the power required to pump it would be the same. (possibly the smaller pipe may be harder do to more restriction).
              1 foot of head = 0.433 psi

              1.0 psi = 2.31 feet of head
              Water pressure is the same at the bottom of a lake as the bottom of a small pipe if the height/depth is the same. and what your lifting is the area of the cylinder spool, so you depth to the water table, x the 0.433 x the area of the cylinder spool,

              so say you have a 2" cylinder, 3.14 square inches, 100 feet x .433 = 43.3 pounds per inch, X 3.14 = 135.02 pounds of lift need. now you need to figure your leverage ratio on the pump handle (say 6 to 1 - just a guess) 22.5 pounds of power on the end of the pump handle to pump the water, not counting friction.

              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

              well buckets can be lowered in a well and water lifted out.
              how to make one http://preparednessadvice.com/well/m...p-well-bucket/
              they can be bought as well, http://www.lehmans.com/store/Water__...ucket___550202

              if you chose to use one tie off the rope so it does not accidentally get dropped down the well withe the bucket.
              Last edited by BHD; 02-19-2012, 11:04 PM.
              Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
              attributed to Samuel Johnson
              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Doomsday Preppers

                I have had an interest in LED flashlights and different battery chemistries for a couple of years now. I found this site called "candlepowerforums.com" and it's filled with folks posting about flashlights, batteries and related items including knives. I found this one thread there tonight and thought I would share it here because we are not alone in our thoughts of being prepared for something bad.
                Check it out. WOLVERINES!!
                Last edited by Frankiarmz; 02-20-2012, 12:41 AM.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Doomsday Preppers

                  A well bucket is what I was getting at as something one could MacGyver in an emergency if nothing else was available.
                  How many people have wells that are greater than 100 feet? There are places where 300 ft is common.

                  You don't have to have a RX breach (Chernobyl type disaster) to have radioactive fallout. If they have to do a release of
                  built up gas because they can not process it fast enough at the plant then depending on the wind direction you could be
                  facing (no pun intended) a cloud coming in your direction that could cause you to shelter in place for 3 or more days (as
                  happened at TMI). Dose levels would not approach those of a nuclear blast ground zero condition but would be higher than
                  regulations allow the general public of livestock to be exposed to.

                  I understand the weight of a column of water and static pressure just fine.

                  from your link:

                  Name:  649054ff734292666f374a2ff931e561.png
Views: 1
Size:  10.5 KB
                  Which I think bears out what I was getting at in my previous
                  post; with a larger diameter cylinder the depth at which water
                  can be drawn from the well is less for the same pump stoke.
                  The MA has not changed; the pump stroke has not changed;
                  the force applied has not changed; so it would seem that the
                  weight has become the limiting factor (discounting friction).

                  The wells' static water level is the point from which you have to move
                  the water. If the point where you are drawing the water into your
                  pipe, dip tube (however you want to refer to it) is below the static
                  water level then any head pressure below the static level is cancelled
                  out by the pressure outside the pipe. So if the well is 80 feet deep
                  and you are drawing water at the -75 foot level but your static water
                  level is say -50 feet then that 25 foot difference is 25 feet you don't have to
                  lift the water. If you measured the head pressure at the bottom of your pipe
                  at elev -75 ft you would find a head pressure of 25' WC, not 75 feet.
                  Inside your pipe the water would be at the same level as outside... 50 feet
                  below grade or elev -50 ft. So you would only need to lift the water 50 feet.
                  Now if you start drawing the water out faster than can be replenished then
                  that 25 of head might drop to say 20 or even 15 feet, which would mean you
                  would have to work harder to lift the water the added distance.
                  (And I know you know all this BHD, I only mention it for those who may not)


                  This might be a possible solution if one was looking to have
                  something on hand BEFORE disaster struck.

                  Again from the link you provided:
                  http://www.deanbennett.com/y2kemergencyhandpump.htm

                  They claim the average person can draw water from about 240' depth,
                  that probably covers a large population of wells. Some wells in my area
                  are 800 feet, but those are for large facilities like hotels or industry not
                  residential wells. When you are close to the shore you have to go deeper
                  to get water that is not brackish. Salt water intrusion into wells is a
                  problem along the coast. As fresh water flows through aquifers slow or
                  are reduced during times of extended drought, salt water makes inroads
                  into what was traditionally freshwater territory.
                  Last edited by Bob D.; 02-20-2012, 07:06 AM.
                  "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
                  John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

                  Comment

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