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Ban The Apple!

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  • #31
    Re: Ban The Apple!

    Tracking software. It keeps track of how many minutes a day that you are on sites. Then it sorts those sites into sites that are work or self improvement related, research related and entertainment related. Anyone care to guess what the average amount for each category is? Computers, smart phones and tablets could be powerful and useful tools but since "entertainment" I.E. games, social networking, media are but a click of the mouse away, only the most self disciplined are able to do anything meaningful for very long before the lure of entertainment draws them back in. This site BTW and forums in general fall under the "research" category so time spent here is time well spent.
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    • #32
      Re: Ban The Apple!

      You'd have a better chance banning the wheel.
      I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Ban The Apple!

        Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
        You'd have a better chance banning the wheel.
        One thing at a time

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Ban The Apple!

          The school just bought 18 Ipad II's and now, after spending 12 grand on the stupid things, they are asking teachers if they know of any useful way in which the stupid things can be used. For 12 grand I can supply my plumbing class for the next 8 freekin years while those idiots are busy swiping. pinching and screwing around playing dumb assed games. No, I'm not pissed off, I'm in a blind rage ARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

          This is the CRAP that school administrators get all wrapped up in. New shiny toys that impress other idiots but do Jack squat for the kids. Want to know where your educational dollars go? Keep an eye on budget expenditures. In the past 5 years the technology center has spent close to 100 grand on....Smart boards, projectors, digital camera's, Flip video camera's, I Pads, lap tops, a 5th axis for a CNC lathe that WILL NEVER BE USED, a lazer etching machine, a CNC plasma cutting machine that is more often broken than not, a green house (125,000) that gets used 4 months of the year. A new culinary kitchen for a restaurant management program ? a 3d printer that prints stuff using ABS plastic. But if we ask for a lousy thousand bucks to buy pipe and fittings the answer is "there no money left in the budget" And people wonder what's wrong with education today. What's wrong is the public schools are run by incompetent people that answer to nobody.
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          • #35
            Re: Ban The Apple!

            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
            The school just bought 18 Ipad II's and now, after spending 12 grand on the stupid things, they are asking teachers if they know of any useful way in which the stupid things can be used. For 12 grand I can supply my plumbing class for the next 8 freekin years while those idiots are busy swiping. pinching and screwing around playing dumb assed games. No, I'm not pissed off, I'm in a blind rage ARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

            This is the CRAP that school administrators get all wrapped up in. New shiny toys that impress other idiots but do Jack squat for the kids. Want to know where your educational dollars go? Keep an eye on budget expenditures. In the past 5 years the technology center has spent close to 100 grand on....Smart boards, projectors, digital camera's, Flip video camera's, I Pads, lap tops, a 5th axis for a CNC lathe that WILL NEVER BE USED, a lazer etching machine, a CNC plasma cutting machine that is more often broken than not, a green house (125,000) that gets used 4 months of the year. A new culinary kitchen for a restaurant management program ? a 3d printer that prints stuff using ABS plastic. But if we ask for a lousy thousand bucks to buy pipe and fittings the answer is "there no money left in the budget" And people wonder what's wrong with education today. What's wrong is the public schools are run by incompetent people that answer to nobody.
            Did you write this on a rock with a piece of charcoal?

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Ban The Apple!

              Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
              The school just bought 18 Ipad II's and now, after spending 12 grand on the stupid things, they are asking teachers if they know of any useful way in which the stupid things can be used. For 12 grand I can supply my plumbing class for the next 8 freekin years while those idiots are busy swiping. pinching and screwing around playing dumb assed games. No, I'm not pissed off, I'm in a blind rage ARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

              This is the CRAP that school administrators get all wrapped up in. New shiny toys that impress other idiots but do Jack squat for the kids. Want to know where your educational dollars go? Keep an eye on budget expenditures. In the past 5 years the technology center has spent close to 100 grand on....Smart boards, projectors, digital camera's, Flip video camera's, I Pads, lap tops, a 5th axis for a CNC lathe that WILL NEVER BE USED, a lazer etching machine, a CNC plasma cutting machine that is more often broken than not, a green house (125,000) that gets used 4 months of the year. A new culinary kitchen for a restaurant management program ? a 3d printer that prints stuff using ABS plastic. But if we ask for a lousy thousand bucks to buy pipe and fittings the answer is "there no money left in the budget" And people wonder what's wrong with education today. What's wrong is the public schools are run by incompetent people that answer to nobody.
              NHMaster, if private citizens want to spend their own money on gadgets, electronics for either enhancing the productive or entertainment part of their lives, that's their business. I believe when the subject of school budget and expenses is on the table there needs to be examination, discussion and some forethought used in advance of spending. You make an excellent argument for school officials to not impulse buy. Whoever suggested and approved of those purchases should be made to explain their thought process! I have found that fraud is sometimes a motivating factor for such ill thoughtout purchases.

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              • #37
                Re: Ban The Apple!

                Originally posted by Pipestone Kid View Post
                Did you write this on a rock with a piece of charcoal?
                Kid, of course he used a computer, but consider his position. He is an educator trying to teach a trade, and is stonewalled by administrators who are diverting funds from his classroom and students to technology that is not serving anyone. I appreciate such dedicated teachers.
                I don't understand why you can't see his point? He is not demonizing the technology, only expressing his upset for it's improper place, distraction, and expense in his school.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Ban The Apple!

                  So you think I'm Fred Flintstone? A little background. I went to UNH for for years in the early 70's and got myself a couple of bachelors degrees. One in business and the other in computer programming. After college I went to work for the long since defunct Digital company as an in-house programmer/hardware tech (we all wore two hats back then) I was on the cutting edge of computer technology and watched it grow from 4 bit processors through 64 bit processors with all the advancements and bells and whistles along the way. There was no such thing as windows when I started. There was no such thing as C or C+ programming environments. We programmed in Cobal and Fortran and with Digital they had their own proprietary programming shell called Dibol (short for diabolical LOL) Data storage was via a 12" winchester disk that cost upwards of 10 grand and held a wopping 5 megabytes of data. I have nothing against technology. My beef is that we have allowed the technology to surpass REAL need and function. We have a generation of people convinced that they can not accomplish anything without first firing up the tablet or cruising Google and Facebook. We have an entire generation that is addicted to WASTING TIME. They can not and will not leave their devices for any prolonged length of time. They have to check for messages and they have to text and facebook and twitter and when you take that away from them they get visibly nervous and distracted. Don't believe me? Google the phenomenon. You can't teach kids to plumb, wire, build etc on a g'damned computer. Sure, you can show them the concept and they can read the steps off the screen but sooner or later they need to put wrench to hand and hammer to nail. I can set 10,000 IPad tablets around a foundation, have a load of lumber delivered and I guarantee you that 100 years from now there still won't be a house there. So my real problem with all this technological gee wiz crap is that it diverts kids attention from learning and applying the real, hands on skills they need to get the job done. Kids come to school every day with a thousand distractions and toys in their pockets and they lack the self discipline to turn the damn thing off and listen and learn. Face it, if you were a 16 year old kid in high school, what would you rather do. Listen to a lecture on linear graphing or play angry birds? These damn devices are so enticing that it's even difficult to get kids interested is say, running a lathe, or milling machine and actually making something. The lure of the app has them by the short and curlies.
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                  • #39
                    Re: Ban The Apple!

                    NHM, No, I didn't think you were Fred Flintstone. I just thought it a little ironic to be bashing technology while using a computer. I respectfully disagree with your viewpoint, but then I don't always agree with everyone on every issue. I will let it go at that.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Ban The Apple!

                      I remember when my daughters were given cell phones and ipods, and the warnings we gave them, and the atmosphere at school. Teachers were allowed to confiscate them because they were a distraction and disruption, this was when they were a new thing. Now it has gotten so out of control that they are allowed to keep them on their desks and use them (texting). Maybe kids can multitask and teachers can work around this intrusion but I think it's wrong. There is also the added problem for all involved resulting from theft.

                      Kid, I have to ask you again, where exactly do you disagree with NHMaster? He is right there trying to teach as some of his students make his job more difficult and waste their time as well playing games with these electronics. He is also expressing frustration with the mismanagement of funds away from necessary tools and supplies in exchange for electronics and machines that are not necessary or practical for that setting. I can see having a difference of opinion regarding these items either for fun or to make our lives better, but as a parent I understand his frustration. Frank

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Ban The Apple!

                        Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                        The school just bought 18 Ipad II's and now, after spending 12 grand on the stupid things, they are asking teachers if they know of any useful way in which the stupid things can be used. For 12 grand I can supply my plumbing class for the next 8 freekin years while those idiots are busy swiping. pinching and screwing around playing dumb assed games. No, I'm not pissed off, I'm in a blind rage ARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

                        This is the CRAP that school administrators get all wrapped up in. New shiny toys that impress other idiots but do Jack squat for the kids. Want to know where your educational dollars go? Keep an eye on budget expenditures. In the past 5 years the technology center has spent close to 100 grand on....Smart boards, projectors, digital camera's, Flip video camera's, I Pads, lap tops, a 5th axis for a CNC lathe that WILL NEVER BE USED, a lazer etching machine, a CNC plasma cutting machine that is more often broken than not, a green house (125,000) that gets used 4 months of the year. A new culinary kitchen for a restaurant management program ? a 3d printer that prints stuff using ABS plastic. But if we ask for a lousy thousand bucks to buy pipe and fittings the answer is "there no money left in the budget" And people wonder what's wrong with education today. What's wrong is the public schools are run by incompetent people that answer to nobody.
                        Two words:
                        Kick-backs.
                        Don't think for one second that businesses don't influence a school systems expenditures.

                        There have been many a case where a public school system, and in some cases school teachers, would receive "incentives" for "highly recommending" Ritalin to the student populace, especially the more active ones.
                        Remember that?

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                        • #42
                          Re: Ban The Apple!

                          Originally posted by tailgunner View Post
                          Two words:
                          Kick-backs.
                          Don't think for one second that businesses don't influence a school systems expenditures.

                          There have been many a case where a public school system, and in some cases school teachers, would receive "incentives" for "highly recommending" Ritalin to the student populace, especially the more active ones.
                          Remember that?
                          Whenever, and wherever there is an opportunity for someone to make money through a kick back you will see it happen. Schools are no different when it comes to such behavior. The folks controlling the money are either approached, and offered something in return for their purchase, or they are the ones to intitiate the scheme. School food is notorius for being of the worst quality because it is another place where people can unload substandard merchandise and get top dollar. My concern aside from the money wasted is the disruption caused by unnecessary cell phones, ipads and such in the classroom, whether it is provided, and paid for by the school or the personal property of the student.
                          I know there are politicians who lobby to keep vending machines with junk food in schools. The only motivation I can see is money, and who is willing to pay and who is willing to accept. Schools are not the place for cell phones and other non-approved electronics, they only serve to make the teachers job more difficult, and the students more distracted in my opinion.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Ban The Apple!

                            Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                            I remember when my daughters were given cell phones and ipods, and the warnings we gave them, and the atmosphere at school. Teachers were allowed to confiscate them because they were a distraction and disruption, this was when they were a new thing. Now it has gotten so out of control that they are allowed to keep them on their desks and use them (texting). Maybe kids can multitask and teachers can work around this intrusion but I think it's wrong. There is also the added problem for all involved resulting from theft.

                            Kid, I have to ask you again, where exactly do you disagree with NHMaster? He is right there trying to teach as some of his students make his job more difficult and waste their time as well playing games with these electronics. He is also expressing frustration with the mismanagement of funds away from necessary tools and supplies in exchange for electronics and machines that are not necessary or practical for that setting. I can see having a difference of opinion regarding these items either for fun or to make our lives better, but as a parent I understand his frustration. Frank
                            Frank, I don't agree with either of you on the subject of technology in the school. If you had an Ipad, you would probably see the hundreds of applications that are readily available for use in the schools. Just because NHM doesn't use or need one in his area doesn't mean that the school should not be on the cutting edge in other areas. If you read his post, he talked about CNC machines and a lot of other computer related equipment. The world is full of this kind of equipment and the kids that are training for a job in that field had better be familiar with it or be out in the cold. As far as mismanagement of funds, I really don't think you
                            are in a position to make that kind of statement. Have you been to his school? Have you seen or are you even aware of what programs they offer? Do you know what their financial situation is? Or are you going by what one teacher is saying? I understand his frustration, but does that make it mismanagement of funds? I, for one, don't think so.

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                            • #44
                              Re: Ban The Apple!

                              Originally posted by Pipestone Kid View Post
                              Frank, I don't agree with either of you on the subject of technology in the school. If you had an Ipad, you would probably see the hundreds of applications that are readily available for use in the schools. Just because NHM doesn't use or need one in his area doesn't mean that the school should not be on the cutting edge in other areas. If you read his post, he talked about CNC machines and a lot of other computer related equipment. The world is full of this kind of equipment and the kids that are training for a job in that field had better be familiar with it or be out in the cold. As far as mismanagement of funds, I really don't think you
                              are in a position to make that kind of statement. Have you been to his school? Have you seen or are you even aware of what programs they offer? Do you know what their financial situation is? Or are you going by what one teacher is saying? I understand his frustration, but does that make it mismanagement of funds? I, for one, don't think so.
                              Kid, I appreciate the reply but I'm still at a loss as to how you are confusing "technology" in the schools with kids using cell phones or ipads to goof off and distract? I agree that schools aid in preparing students for the real world but if the machines or technology implimented cannot be properly supported it becomes a huge paperweight instead of a learning tool. While I can't speak to NHMaster's specific situation, I do trust his words and perspective given his posts over the years. I consider him and most of the other folks on this Forum hardworking, dedicated adults, wheter they are teaching to a classroom or apprentice.

                              I would like to relate a personal story which leads me to believe what NHMaster is saying regarding the high ticket items at his school.
                              Back when I was fourteen years old I was a freshman at a city vocational school in Manhattan, The New York School of Printing. There seemed to be a shortage of paper, ink and just about everything else we needed to learn the trade and for the first four months they kept us busy writing safety rules. The teachers were former tradesmen and taught us how all about printing from setting type one piece at a time, to the more advanced offest printing(lithography) of the day. Those printing presses, paper cutting and colating machines were not computer controlled but very dangerous and very expensive to repair if damaged. When a machine needed repair it was often out of service for months, and I later realized why. The same year I began attending classes, over one hundred thousand dollars was spent to buy a four color computer controlled scanner. I don't know if anyone can appreciate the complexity and fragility of such a machine back in the late 1960's, but it was well guarded and rarely used. You see, unlike the real world, schools are not the place for very expensive complicated machines that require highly trained techs and costly repairs and maintenance.

                              I agree that when possible incorporating advanced technology with the learning experience is wonderful thing, however without the proper foundation and funding to support that high tech gear it is simply a waste. I used to think that learning on older machines was a waste of time, but I later discovered that in the real world that's what a lot of businesses use. The really high tech stuff is a big investment and almost never entrusted to new guys. I think the most valuable lessons I learned from my teachers was to work safe, no long hair, loose clothing, jewelry, wear eye and hearing protection, never try to retrieve something while it's moving. Those things may sound boring compared to learning first hand on high tech gear, but I think they have their place even today. I recently saw an episode of "Sons of Guns" where they allowed an untrained worker to use a CNC machine. This guy was eager to give it a go, but ended up almost breaking the machine. My point is that he never learned basic behavior around machines, to be familiar and learn before touching. I don't want to sound like the old guy here, but generally speaking kids today are sort of impatient. Way back when, I also was itching to get at the machines, but I was willing to do what was necessary to get there. What I hear teachers saying today is that most of their students want what they want right now without working for answers on their own. I am all for technology in schools but it must be done right, and if NHMaster says in his school that was not the case then it's good enough for me. Frank

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                              • #45
                                Re: Ban The Apple!

                                Frank, No doubt you will respond to this, but after serving as a teacher and an administrator in a vocational school, I understand NHM's frustration, but I have seen practically every teacher go through the same thing when "there isn't any money left in the budget". As far as your statement--" You see, unlike the real world, schools are not the place for very expensive complicated machines that require highly trained techs and costly repairs and maintenance."--I think you better go visit a voc. school and find out for yourself. Things are not like they were when you were fourteen. One other thing, I agree that cell phones etc that are not related to the program being offered have no place being there.

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