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Another Reason Why Illegals Like It Here

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  • #16
    Re: Another Reason Why Illegals Like It Here

    CWS, good post. However, I think your thoughts on minimum wage is a little Utopian--The ink wouldn't even be dry on a piece of legislation to create such a system and those corporate lawyers would be writing "contracts" to "small business owners"who could hire a lower than minimum wage.

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    • #17
      Re: Another Reason Why Illegals Like It Here

      Pipestone, as Willy Shakespear said to me just the other day while we were sitting in the boat, "first thing we do is kill all the lawyers".
      ================================================== ====
      All of us could take a lesson from the weather. It pays no attention to criticism.

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      • #18
        Re: Another Reason Why Illegals Like It Here


        On the other hand, there are lot's of opportunities where a small company
        might well want to hire on extra workers, but they can't afford to do so at the
        current or proposed future "minimum wage".
        Maybe instead of lowering the minimum wage those companies should reduce
        the salaries of their CEOs to pay for those additional people they want to hire.
        How many minimum wage workers can you hire for a million? And will the CEO
        whose salary is 2 or 3 mill plus a huge bonus in the millions miss that mil?
        I doubt it. It will just be one million less he can stash away in an offshore tax
        free account.

        But then you're talking about small companies. I'm not sure where the line gets
        drawn between a small, medium, and large company. But I don't see how reducing
        the minimum wage helps anyone except the company. Anybody who makes minimum
        wage is at the poverty level and below, so they are working two minimum wage jobs
        or on public assistance or both just to make ends meet.
        "It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?" Bob D. 2006

        https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerToolInstitute

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        • #19
          Re: Another Reason Why Illegals Like It Here

          I don't agree with lowering the minimum wage, anyone who thinks that's a good idea should try surviving on it. Maybe a compromise would be to have lower wage scales for those workers under the age of 19? Seriously, with the price of food, fuel and housing workers need a fighting chance. I would rather give small business owners, tax breaks and other incentives to lower operating costs.

          This conversation on minimum wage is sort of pointless in my opinion given all the other serious issues facing all of us.

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          • #20
            Re: Another Reason Why Illegals Like It Here

            Originally posted by BadgerDave View Post
            Pipestone, as Willy Shakespear said to me just the other day while we were sitting in the boat, "first thing we do is kill all the lawyers".
            No wonder you can't catch any walleyes--YOU ARE USING THE WRONG BAIT!! Everyone knows to use politicians!!! (Drown them first)

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            • #21
              Re: Another Reason Why Illegals Like It Here

              Pipestone,

              Oh, I totally agree... it is unquestionably "Utopean". But in defense of my thought, one has to start looking at these things, and as wild-eyed as some thoughts may be, it at least promotes doing something instead of just accepting the situation as it exists.

              Also, I am totally for putting a bridle on the excessive and really quite pointless big salaries and bonuses that the executive class demands. This thinking that "if we don't pay them that, then they'll go somewhere else".... well, then let them!!!! But if we had restraints in place, exactly where would they go?

              I recall early in my career hiring a young guy (actually only ten years younger than I was at the time), to clean the office. The guy worked hard, kept the place in great shape and was really a very happy guy. Considering that he had basically this minimum wage, low skill job and was without question the happiest guy in the place, including me? So, I asked him how he could maintain that attitude every single day. He pointed out that he was happy, liked the work because he felt part of the team and he expected to move up. He then pointed out that he was actually more important than the owner... who was never there and who wasn't "missed" at all. He on the other hand, though paid little, had a serious impact every day..... for if he didn't replace the toilet paper, everybody knew it and nobody would be happy. In other words, the owner could be away for weeks and nobody cared and there was no negative impact... but if the janitor didn't show up just one day, nobody in the place would be able to wipe their ***! (BTW, I gave that guy two raises that first year.)

              In more than forty years in heavy industry, I've found that is most often the case... it's the guys and gals "on the floor" that do the job. Their attention to detail and thier skills is what drives the business and makes the customers happy. Every single big $$ mistake that I've seen in all those years was in the ranks of the executive. Stupid mistakes, wasteful spending, poor judgements, and all of the decisions to furlough the workforce for the sake of thier own enrichment... all from the executives. Yet it is the workforce, the janitors, and most always the guys on the line that take the hits. They are the ones who are paid the least and, on the very bottom "rung of the ladder", it is the "minimum wage" guys that are quickly let go when the rare occasion of a regulated "increase" is mandated. Only after we start complaining about the dirty toilets, unswept floors, poor grounds care, and the like, does the "management" start to reconsider thier kneejerk decisions and start to add staff at this very low level.

              Yet in all of this, nobody looks at even how the workforce is paid or has their salary increased. For example, my ex-employer dished out their meager merit increases based on manageriral "review" and "percentage". And they condidered everything on the so-called "bell jar".. that is to say that a certain percengtage has to be bad and a certain percentage has to be "great" and everyone else just "average". So, if you've got ten people, 2 or 3 would get either no increase or a minimum increase. 2 or 3 would get the maximum increase and the rest would get the average increace. So, if the department budget was say 4%, then what would usually happen is that the lower performing worker would get maybe 1 or 2%, the average folks, maybe 3%, and the best performers maybe 5 to 6%.

              But take a very poor performing senior manager who might be making $200K... even though he blew a couple of contracts or made some serious errors, his 1% raise would still be $2K... while a top performing guy on the lower end, making $35K would get say 5%... that's the same increase of $1,750.... a bit less than the guy who is screwing up. And worse perhaps, is that if the lower salaried guy made anywhere near the mistakes that the top guy was, he'd have been fired!

              At one time, the monetary distance between a good worker and his supervisor might only be two or three thousand a year and between his middle manager maybe $10K a year. But in today's big business, you are sometimes looking at a doubling or even tripling of salaries within just a couple of ranks. At the higher levels it is almost insane, and that doesn't even begin to address the perks that go with the senior positions.

              I'd like to see "multi-levels" of "minimum-wage", with age and hourly work-force considerations. Surely most high-school kids just need a job, enough to earn a few bucks and also to gain experience. Do they really need to be paid the same wage as an un-skilled man or woman in thier 30's or 40's? I think not. The problem is that when the minimum wage goes up (and I'm not argueing that it shouldn't), there is a history that the "unemployment" increases dramatically at this level. Many teenagers simply loose thier opportunities for part-time or summer work.

              Yet, a "minimum wage" is by no means a "living wage". It was not designed to be a "living wage"... not now and not in the past. Minimum wage is what it is, it's a low-skill, starting out, or part-time position that is more in the way of adding a little help here and there. But while "minimum wage" jobs have increased, it is is clearly (at least to my experience) a catagory that is used to keep a part of the workforce "down" while the executive adds the value of such labor to his own pocket book. Minimum Wage, has not kept up with the ever inflating salaries of the executive... but then again, neither has the average wage of the middle class worker. Hence, that is why there needs to be a "maximum wage", tied to the number of workers and the profitability of the organizations that they manage.

              That of course will never happen, as it is the "Top" that manages the "Bottom" and influences the government to ensure that it remains that way.

              CWS
              Last edited by CWSmith; 05-16-2012, 10:16 AM.

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              • #22
                Re: Another Reason Why Illegals Like It Here

                Seems to me that minimum wage WAS the wage for teen age summer work,. But what has happened over time is that compensation for many jobs that should command a wage some where above minimum have remained at their old rates, and minimum wage has now caught up to those jobs, but their rates have not gone up in sync with the minimum wage. So now you have entry level jobs that pay summer job, high school kids rates.
                "It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?" Bob D. 2006

                https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerToolInstitute

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                • #23
                  Re: Another Reason Why Illegals Like It Here

                  Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
                  Seems to me that minimum wage WAS the wage for teen age summer work,. But what has happened over time is that compensation for many jobs that should command a wage some where above minimum have remained at their old rates, and minimum wage has now caught up to those jobs, but their rates have not gone up in sync with the minimum wage. So now you have entry level jobs that pay summer job, high school kids rates.
                  Bob, in my opinion it's labor chasing the tail of an ever growing inflation. The minimum wage is not a living wage but when you consider how many Americans are out of work, which is the more urgent problem? I agree with you, but I am more outraged and upset by the current unemployment situation and dismal outlook. I saw some number flashed on tv about 36% of our capable workforce not working!
                  We have a President who has the nerve to talk about having created jobs. If our legislators don't prioritize and fix the gapping holes in our country we are sunk. How the heck can they be using precious time probling drug use by professional athletes? We are either in a crisis or not.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Another Reason Why Illegals Like It Here


                    We have a President who has the nerve to talk about having created jobs.
                    So you are upset that he has created jobs, or that he has not gotten all of that 36% back to work in only 3.5 years?
                    It took us a while to get in this mess, about two terms, it won't be fixed overnight.
                    Is it wrong to state that they have created jobs. I am sure they realize there are more jobs needed.
                    Its not like he claimed victory over iraq when the job was half done, he's just said that he has created jobs, and EVERY swinging d!ck that has gone to Washington has made the same claim, from both sides of the isle, so why does it surprise you? Let the political BS flow right by and don't waste any time or words on it.
                    "It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?" Bob D. 2006

                    https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerToolInstitute

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