If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You will be required to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
Thanks Dave, this is a very disturbing find! I don't challenge the fine work ethic of many illegals, but I find no defense for them breaking our laws, taking advantage of our many benefits, and not supporting our government through the same tax system as the rest of us.
Fifty or so years ago Americans did not have the broken economy we have today, and illegals filled a cheap labor void especially in the area of agriculture. They did not have access to our healthcare, or educational systems, which we can't afford for legal Americans.
Our sixteen trillion dollar deficit is saying loud ,and clear, "America cannot afford illegals!". I challenge those who disagree to show me the money to pay for all the needs and wants of those here illegally and their children. Frank
Maybe the tea party reps in congress will see this as a good place to control and allow some relief to the budget.
I can't understand how or why the IRS even has such a tax code for "Illegals"? How can there be a legal allowance for people who are here illegally? This is insane and shows that the enforcement of our laws is more of a curiosity that certainty. Frank
I completely agree, this is absolutely insane and needs to be corrected immediately.
I grew up in area that was built and prospered with over a century of immigration. My FIL and his parents and most all of that side of the family came here through "Ellis Island". THEY were ALL legal immigrants, every single one of them. They came here via sponsors, worked very hard to earn their citizenship, learned to speak and read and write ENGLISH and there isn't one of them that ever took even a single day of welfare.
When I was a kid, the neighbors and the entire area was full of Slovacs, Jews, Italians, Polish, etc. My grandfather (step-grand dad... my real grandfather passed away when my Dad was only 10) was from Germany and recruited to work in the Steuben works of Corning Glass. None of these people came here illegally and all of them were self-sufficient, hard-working middle class citizens who contributed to their communities and their country.
This kind of "illegal" crap really makes me sick. While I understand the misery in Mexico and the rest of South and Central America, I think what is happening in this country is dispicable. ENGLISH should be our primary language and it should be so officially. NO employer should hire anybody without sufficient proof of citizenship and if such is proven then that employer is as guilty of a crime as the person that was hired and penalties should be quickly delivered.
There is not a single one of us that have NOT had to prove thier ID. Not me and probably not you. From the time I was 12, I carried ID with me (and my heritage goes back to the 1700's). Every job I ever had demanded that I show proof of who I was, what my background and experience was, and that I had ton criminality, and that I had the education that I said I had. I don't recall any employer ever just taking my word for it.
If you are not a bonafide resident of the U.S., with proven citizenship and educational and work background, how in the hell do you get hired? How do you even find a place to live? Get a credit card, a driver's license or anything else? Maybe it's just my area and my background, but I really don't have any understanding of this kind of thing. Yet I do know it happens.... just this last month a dozen "illegals" where arrested at the Elmira Airport, on a tip... they were up here working on the natural gas fields.
Yeah, that right... they were working for "Chesepeake", one of those "API" companies that keep giving us all the lies about how great this boom is going to be for good, quality, high-paid jobs for us U.S. workers. The fact is, they are hiring far too many illegals which travel from drilling site to drilling site and in every community that they travel the crime rate goes up!
As CW said, if those who hire illegals were subjected to the legal consequences of their actions by enforcement of the laws presently on the books, a lot of this immigrant invasion would disappear. Yes, we might pay more for some things, but the outlay would be front loaded with very little hidden infrastructural burden.
We should all be equally outraged that some states do not require proof of citizenship and I.D. in order to vote! The future of our country hinges on our elections and to allow people to vote without credentials is unacceptable in my opinion. I would rather fork over some more of my tax money to provide everyone who needs assistance with getting proper I.D., than suffer the alternative of having fradulent votes cast.
I agree Franki... how does one get to vote, if they are NOT registered and how do you get to register, if you do not have proof and a 'real' address? Here in NY, you just can't move in to an apartment and register... you have to show that you have lived there for some period, otherwise they send you back to the address which you last registered in.
I think there should be major penalties for anyone renting or hiring an "illegal". Yes, you don't have to be a legalized citizen to get a job and I you shouldn't have to be... BUT, you do need a visa, green card, or whatever. The same should be true for renting and/or for buying.
I've coordinated quite a number of foreign engineers and technicians who have visited our facility for training and short-term (up to a year) work periods. We arrange the rentals, the car, (both are "arranged" and payment depends on whether they are our employees or a contractor's) but we know who and where they are and we conduct "hosting" to ensure they are not getting in trouble. In every case that I have arranged, their native driver's license is sufficient for operation here in this country... but there's a bunch of stuff they have to go through if they want to apply for a NYS license.
I don't get the ID problem that some of the politicians seem to have (or the ACLU). For example, I conduct FCC license exam's for Ham Radio. Even for that rather simple process, a "photo ID" is required. It is absolutely a must that you are identified and even in the capacity as a certified volunteer examiner if you can't prove who you are, it is my responsibility to turn you away... Everybody has ID and if it looks suspicious, you don't get to take the exam, plain and simple. Therefore I have no understaning whatsoever how anyone can feel infringed upon or "profiled" if you are asked to identify yourself.
I suppose it's a problem for you if you just get pulled over, but why should it be? If 6 ft white guys, with balding dark hair have been committing crimes, should I not, as a 6 ft white guy with balding dark hair NOT be stopped and asked to ID myself... hey, it's nice to know the cops are looking out for all of us. And should any of us feel put upon by the authorities if we are expected to carry identification?
CWS, once again I totally agree with your post. We are not living in a brutal "Show me your papers" society, but we have been under attack and deserve to know who is in our country! We also deserve to have fair and honest elections, which cannot take place if people voting do not have to produce proof of who they are and there is no across the board requirement. Here in CT I must show my dirver's license and my name is cross checked against a by the street address list. In my opinion anyone who argues against proper I.D. welcomes fraud and weakens one of our most important rights.
You guys reckon you have a problem, I'll swap you one red-headed DUD for ................... name your price. Since these YO-YOs have been in power we have had over Three Hundred Boats come in. God damn we cant even look after our elderly yet these tree-hugging useless air bandits are running down to the shores to welcome them all. Dont worry about diseases, over reaction they say. Dont worry about money, our dumb *** morons give them $10k for a starter then give them homes etc. So what about our pensioners and frail elderly. WHo cares, our Government doesnt. They are too worried about protecting their egos and pandering to minority groups.
Yes I sound cruel and racist. No Im not. Our Country used to be TB free, not anymore. Like many here, come to our Country, learn the language, participate in building it better, stop the social security ripping off etc etc etc. We want to help but doesnt CHARITY begin at home????????????
I dont see the ranga giving money to the people who helped build this beautiful nation. PATHETIC I say.
Cleanmen2, thanks for letting us know that stupidity isn't just an American trait. One would think that with all the worldwide freebies being handed out that poverty should have been erased by now. Oh wait, I forgot, when one is constantly given free stuff one loses the will to work for it. The pessimist in me says that there is no light at the end of the tunnel while the optimist says it's just burned out. Problem is the bureaucrats have no idea where the bulbs are kept.
Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian."
------- Henry Ford
Unfortunately, that "light at the end of the tunnel" is sounding and looking an awful lot like a fast moving freight train... and it's coming our way and there's no place we can get out of it's way.
The world is in turmoil. While it all looks very extreme, it really isn't as bad as it was back in the late 1920's and through the mid-1940's. Knowing how bad things were then, gives me hope... but then again, I don't see the unity that our parents and grand parents had in this struggle.
I think that all countries must seriously look at curtailing immigration. We are all in terrible condition financially and we cannot continue to open our doors to people who will contribute nothing and in fact will simply add more strain on our economy and limited resources.
There is a tremendous job issue almost everywhere and it is made far more serious by what appears to be the generosity of nations whose economies are still hanging on. We have people everywhere that can't find a job. We have a narrowing of the working middle-class, and we have an upper class that continues in it's unbridled accumulation of wealth. Add to that this "feeling" that we must keep our doors open and welcome in those "less fortunate souls" from other countries who "seek a better life", is just ignorant politics. We don't have enough jobs for our own people... why would be letting more unemployable labor into our countries?
What I think is a remedy, is simply as we stated in another thread here on this forum.... make it a Federal Law, investigateable and prosecuteable on all levels of Federal, State, and local levels.... that you cannot hire or rent or sell property to any person or persons or cannot clearly be identified by either legal citizens or documented aliens holding a valid work visa.
Then we need to not only lower the minimum wage to make hiring more affordable for small business, but also need to set a "maximum" wage. Having executives in positions where they can gouge the lower class is nothing less than theivery. Paying Millions of $$ to executives who do little more than strip and/or export jobs for the soul purpose of fattening thier own riches should be as criminal as hiring illegals for the same purpose.
Minimum wages are a tough call, and that too needs to be regulated as I think a minimum wage should be factored (and mandated) from the perspective of the employer's profit picture. Why should someone only make say $6 an hour when the company that employ's them is paying it' top executives a hundreds of thousands or more; or, showing a sizeable profit because of the labors of all of it's workers.
On the other hand, there are lot's of opportunities where a small company might well want to hire on extra workers, but they can't afford to do so at the current or proposed future "minimum wage". For example, is it really worth that kind of money to hire a couple of guys to clean up after a job site, or maybe to help transport materials over a couple of days for a new job, or even to provide a few extra hands during the harvest season, etc.
Above all, we must start focusing on American (or whatever your native country might be) workers and stop hiring those who have illegally invaded the country. And we certainly must start looking at these "illegals" as if they were in fact, "invaders" and not anything that any of us should be looking at with "open arms".
(One of the things that puzzles me is the people that our "wars" bring. Here we are in the teenth year of war in Iraq and Afganistan... and every where I look anymore I am seeing Islamist's in our community. I am by no means a bigot and am pretty liberal and understanding of people of other faiths and nationalities, but ten years ago it would be fairly rare to see many people like this and I had never seen a person in a "burka" until just a year or so ago. Now it's almost a weekly occasion. I guess I just don't get why that is... and it's worse, because they all seem to be out shopping with their county welfare cards!)
CWS, even if the issue of illegals was resolved I think there is just too much wrong that needs correcting. Some folks are all upset about same sex marriage but refuse to see the failings of conventional marriage and how it crowds the courts, burdens our economy and ruins lives. Smiling politicians have neglected to secure our borders, balance the budget, address the trade deficit, national debt, unemployment and a laundry list of other serious issues. I don't see the necessary change forthcoming, so I'm kind of depressed thinking about the future.