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  • #16
    Re: Obama in History

    sorry... just cant do this anymore, never should have started... have fun
    This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Obama in History

      Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
      That included corporations too, but you don't see much of that now-a-days do you. Not saying it doesn't happen but not even close to what was back then. And back then we didn't ship our jobs overseas, only the products of our manufacturing might, which is not as strong today for a number of reasons.
      There is a simple word for the change. It is known as "Greed"!!

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Obama in History

        Originally posted by Pipestone Kid View Post
        There is a simple word for the change. It is known as "Greed"!!
        Kid, you and Bob are right. I guess we are all guilty of that mindset, but where do you draw the line between bettering your family's finances, or corporate profit, and greed? If I had to guess, I'd say when your needs or desires exceed the good of the majority, and that might be the general public ,or country.

        We can blame greed as to what motivated capitalist to move operations and jobs away from America, but from their standpoint it was wise business. Unfortunately what was good business for them resulted in all sorts of economic problems for the folks who depended on those jobs and everyone impacted from their loss. How are we any better for seeking pay raises, or passing along increased costs to consumers?

        I think it would be great to see a campaign to unite all Americans in a effort to strengthen our country and economy. The government could show good faith by lowering gasoline, and diesel to $2.00 a gallon. That would ease prices at the stores and encourage folks to drive and seek jobs or conduct business. There would have to be voluntary givebacks on the part of both working and retired people to help the effort. I'm thinking all sorts of wage freezes and for retirees who can afford to do with less government funds and assistance, a chance to build up those reserves. I'm just grabbing at straws here but you get the drift.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Obama in History

          I loath the busturd ! Hate to be a fence sitter.
          I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Obama in History


            The government could show good faith by lowering gasoline, and diesel to
            $2.00 a gallon.
            The government does not set the price of gas or diesel or any other fuel as you know.
            So why make such a statement? The only way for the Feds to do what you ask is to
            implement price controls which works in the short term but overall are bad, and I bet
            almost everyone on here would be against.
            ---------------
            Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
            ---------------
            “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
            ---------
            "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
            ---------
            sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Obama in History

              Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
              The government does not set the price of gas or diesel or any other fuel as you know.
              So why make such a statement? The only way for the Feds to do what you ask is to
              implement price controls which works in the short term but overall are bad, and I bet
              almost everyone on here would be against.
              Bob, I was going to write in my response that the fed could open the oil reserves and even pass emergency measures to lower the price.
              I was going to mention "martial law" and legislation such as the patriot act as examples of what the government can do when motivated.
              I did a Internet search of "martial law", before writing this post because I wanted to be sure of what I was talking about and I came across this interesting information. Please check it out and give me your thoughts. “Economic Martial Law” Is Coming in 2012: Gerald Celent | Daily Ticker - Yahoo! Finance

              I think the price of gasoline and diesel is so important that it can be part of our recovery or collapse. If I'm right then the government has to do everything in it's power to drop the price. When I worked for the telephone company I was part of a very powerful Union. We had all sorts of agreements written into our contracts and they covered hours to be worked and all sorts of specifics. There was something that could throw all those agreements out of the window at times and it was called "Needs of the business". The company played that card when there was a critical situation such as the central office fire at thirteeth street in Manhattan many years ago. I mention this because I think our country is in such need that we must think outside the box and do what it takes to save ourselves. I don't post here just to hear myself think, I appreciate the feedback and challenge to my opinion. Am I wrong about all this? Can we survive with $4. gas, all the imports, unemployment and the rest of it? Will everything be just fine in a few years without doing anything extreme? Thanks, Frank

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Obama in History

                Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                As an example of what was added to Roosevelt's:

                "On August 14, 1935, President Roosevelt signed the Social Security Act. Today the Obama Administration continues to protect seniors and ensure Social Security will be there for future generations."

                Does this mean the other 11-Presidents didn't care about Seniors and Social Security? Can you imagine if each post-Obama President chooses to do the same thing? Pretty soon the bios will be the footnote.

                Mark

                Well Mark, no desrespect intended, but maybe the other 11-Presidents didn't see such clamour, deceit, and mis-guided zeal to cut Social Security in thier administrations?

                Frankly, I would never had imagined a major party acting the way it has either. I've been a "Republican" since my first "registration" back in the 60's (back then you had to be 21). With the exception of "GW" I've always voted Republican, sometimes that proved to be an error, but even then I stuck by the party and regardless of where my vote went I have fully supported the country that gave me this privilege.

                Unfortunately, what was once MY party, has proven to be an embarrassment. Those that support the minority rich in favor of destroying the majority middle class is not looking out for the nation, and regardless of party label, it is for the good of the nation that they were elected to serve.

                CWS

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Obama in History

                  Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
                  Just the other night on the news they were interviewing some middle class (as they called them) chinease adn they were saying how they prefer US made goods over those made in china. Some companies are finding that they can do a booming business with products made in the USA over there.
                  Bob D.

                  Very good point and you are exactly right.... most of the world, and especially what I know as the "Pacific Rim" wants products that are made in the U.S.A! I my last ten years of work in the Marketing dept of a major heavy industry manufacturer I had the great priviledge of arranging training schedules for visiting engineers from other countries. Whether from Australia, Malasia, Singapore, China, India, or other places in the region, the common interest and wants were for products made here in the U.S., especially our company's product. That was why these people were here, to learn what they could and to help market, engineer the application, and support the U.S.-made product in their regions.

                  But instead, with government encentives and tax breaks we moved major manufacturing jobs to China and India. The top management did this with great zeal and without any consciense toward the multiple generations of American working families that made this a once great company and now were wasted. The plant went from almost 1800 workers (at one time in the late 60's it was over 3,000) down to little more than 600.

                  In some cases, it has actually lost customers who refuse to buy these Asian-built units. Today, far too many of these machines are being returned to the U.S. factory for so-called "fitting" and rebadge as "Made in U.S.A." But regardless of "badge" the majority of work is now in China!

                  CWS

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Obama in History

                    Frank $4.00 a gallon thats cheap try $1.60 a litre around $6.40 a gallon the US is bankrupt you owe 16 TRILLION DOLLARS to China and who ever else and you better get used to it and stop complaining your in the same place as GREECE the only difference is you the population and know how to dig your way out if you really want???????????????? and blaming every one else for your predicament wont help

                    Tony

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Obama in History

                      Originally posted by AFM View Post
                      Frank $4.00 a gallon thats cheap try $1.60 a litre around $6.40 a gallon the US is bankrupt you owe 16 TRILLION DOLLARS to China and who ever else and you better get used to it and stop complaining your in the same place as GREECE the only difference is you the population and know how to dig your way out if you really want???????????????? and blaming every one else for your predicament wont help

                      Tony
                      Tony, our country is in a downward spiral in my opinion and $4.00 gasoline and diesel will close the deal. Our economy depends on folks communting by car and goods moved by trucks. We simply can't survive with fuel at this price. You can call us spoiled or anything else, but as our inflation increases and unemployment worsens it will have a greater impact on the rest of the world including Australia. We are not Europe and cannot afford the economic impact of $4 fuel. I think it is in the best interest of our government and the world for us to have $2 fuel. We can easily achieve this price by legislating emergency measures, the result would be lower prices at the stroes and more work and business opportunities. This whole fuel price thing is only part of a meaningful recovery, without a transition back to manufacturing most of what we consume, and employing tens of millions of out of work Americans we are simply putting off the inevitable. Greece is a good model to learn from but it does not compare to the magnitude, and complexity of our economy or it's impact on the rest of the world.

                      We need to stay strong to defend the free world because no one else can or will. When threats arise you can't call Canada, France or any other country to respond. Now apologize for the bad things you have said about the USA and maybe, just maybe we will rescue Australia if the occassion arises. Frank
                      Last edited by Frankiarmz; 05-20-2012, 12:15 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Obama in History

                        I guess I'm in a position where I look at the gas price more realistic and I fully realize that we in the U.S. are paying a lot less for gas than most of the rest of the world... but I do wonder why exactly that is? Perhaps Australia and the rest of the world needs to import all of their gasoline and hasn't strategically planned (and I don't mean "militarily") their future energy needs.

                        But, I'm NOT in the business of having to use a vehicle for work or even for ever having to go to and from work to any great extent. For thirty years I worked within walking distance of the plant... I planeed it that way, just like I plan all of our other energy and resource needs. Before that, I lived within 15 miles of work and drove a comparitively efficient automobile... to me, a car is just a source of transportation and very little more. Therefore it needs to be utilitarian, and comparitely economical to use.

                        In the last six years, I've spent a lot of time traveling the 75 miles between the two houses, and I drive a Dodge Grand Caravan which gives me about 28 MPG on the highway. But the difference between $3.00 a gallon and $4.00 a gallon is only about $40 a month. I don't like it, I think the gas company is gouging me (based on their "record profit" statements), and I think something needs to be done about it....... BUT, it's NOT the end of civilization as we know it, either!

                        Perhaps if I was running that kind of increase every few days, I'd be a lot more alarmed! But then those who have to do that are usually performing work and it usually gets passed on to the customer. Still, it impacts the economy; but it is not the end of the world and adjustments can be made.

                        Perhaps it's just because I'm a history buff, that I don't see the calamity that a few of you do. I do see trends and similarities, and some of those are most concerning. But in comparison to events in our last century, what we are going through now is almost nothing. Things can be corrected.

                        But "correction" is going to happen when we are being divided by politics, when one side is attempting to buy the election, when the side with the big money has propagandized the public to the extent that we "hate" and seek only to "rid" the office of the presidency, rather than bring in new, forward thinking policies that are for the good of "the people". We aren't going to get better by attacking Europe or Australia, or even China. Our problems are right here in the U.S. and it is right here in the U.S. that we should be focused with questions.

                        Our politics needs to be seeking what is best for all of our citizens, and NOT just the rich. We should not be attacking the poor, the unions, the gays, or any other entity that gets catagorized as "not fitting" to our view of ideals. What we are seeing is "Nazism" at it very beginnings. When we seek to better the elite, by branding specific groups, we are no different than Germany was in the late 20's.

                        America, my America was built on the promise of society where everyone fits in. Where everyone contributes, and where those that have, help those that have not. At the end of the 2nd World War, we had a percapita debt that was higher than it is now. Taxes on the richest in our nation was as high as 90% and with that, this country grew by "leaps and bounds". New factories, new highways and other infrastructure, massive military growth, and total and almost unbridled help to rebuild Germany, Japan, Italy, France, England, the Netherlands, and most of the rest of the world. We created jobs, factories, products, colleges and universities, and we educated entire populations around the world.

                        We as a nation and really the whole economic world is no where close to what it was in the 1920's. We are not even as divided as we were then; but, we are surely headed that way.

                        CWS

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Obama in History

                          Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
                          I guess I'm in a position where I look at the gas price more realistic and I fully realize that we in the U.S. are paying a lot less for gas than most of the rest of the world... but I do wonder why exactly that is? Perhaps Australia and the rest of the world needs to import all of their gasoline and hasn't strategically planned (and I don't mean "militarily") their future energy needs.

                          But, I'm NOT in the business of having to use a vehicle for work or even for ever having to go to and from work to any great extent. For thirty years I worked within walking distance of the plant... I planeed it that way, just like I plan all of our other energy and resource needs. Before that, I lived within 15 miles of work and drove a comparitively efficient automobile... to me, a car is just a source of transportation and very little more. Therefore it needs to be utilitarian, and comparitely economical to use.

                          In the last six years, I've spent a lot of time traveling the 75 miles between the two houses, and I drive a Dodge Grand Caravan which gives me about 28 MPG on the highway. But the difference between $3.00 a gallon and $4.00 a gallon is only about $40 a month. I don't like it, I think the gas company is gouging me (based on their "record profit" statements), and I think something needs to be done about it....... BUT, it's NOT the end of civilization as we know it, either!

                          Perhaps if I was running that kind of increase every few days, I'd be a lot more alarmed! But then those who have to do that are usually performing work and it usually gets passed on to the customer. Still, it impacts the economy; but it is not the end of the world and adjustments can be made.

                          Perhaps it's just because I'm a history buff, that I don't see the calamity that a few of you do. I do see trends and similarities, and some of those are most concerning. But in comparison to events in our last century, what we are going through now is almost nothing. Things can be corrected.

                          But "correction" is going to happen when we are being divided by politics, when one side is attempting to buy the election, when the side with the big money has propagandized the public to the extent that we "hate" and seek only to "rid" the office of the presidency, rather than bring in new, forward thinking policies that are for the good of "the people". We aren't going to get better by attacking Europe or Australia, or even China. Our problems are right here in the U.S. and it is right here in the U.S. that we should be focused with questions.

                          Our politics needs to be seeking what is best for all of our citizens, and NOT just the rich. We should not be attacking the poor, the unions, the gays, or any other entity that gets catagorized as "not fitting" to our view of ideals. What we are seeing is "Nazism" at it very beginnings. When we seek to better the elite, by branding specific groups, we are no different than Germany was in the late 20's.

                          America, my America was built on the promise of society where everyone fits in. Where everyone contributes, and where those that have, help those that have not. At the end of the 2nd World War, we had a percapita debt that was higher than it is now. Taxes on the richest in our nation was as high as 90% and with that, this country grew by "leaps and bounds". New factories, new highways and other infrastructure, massive military growth, and total and almost unbridled help to rebuild Germany, Japan, Italy, France, England, the Netherlands, and most of the rest of the world. We created jobs, factories, products, colleges and universities, and we educated entire populations around the world.

                          We as a nation and really the whole economic world is no where close to what it was in the 1920's. We are not even as divided as we were then; but, we are surely headed that way.

                          CWS
                          CWS, I think Americans have paid less for fuel and still do because it is how our economy has evolved. You are unique in my opinion to have lived so close to your job. We can go back a good fifty years and recall the exodus to the suburbs. "Park & Rides" were purposely built in response to all the commuters who not only used alternate transportation but car pooled.

                          I am part of the "calamity" clan because I see the prices at the stores rising in part because of added fuel costs. I am aware of the truckers who can't make a profit anymore.I understand the plight of the worker who was barely able to fill his tank when gasoline was at $3 gallon, and now may lose his job altogether. Patients who need to reach a hospital or clinic for lifesaving treatments, volunteers who can't afford to offer their services because they can't pay higher fuel prices. When you live within walking distance to your jobs, and don't share in the desperate situation many Americans are facing it is difficult to see the calamity. I don't look at the $2400.00 flat screen tv's in Costco's and think our economy is fine. I see beyond to the folks out of work, losing their homes and the precious time our legislators are squandering. We may be a lot closer to economic doom than many imagine, and we will get their with homes filled with electronics and fat bellies.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Obama in History

                            Originally posted by AFM View Post
                            Frank $4.00 a gallon thats cheap try $1.60 a litre around $6.40 a gallon the US is bankrupt you owe 16 TRILLION DOLLARS to China and who ever else and you better get used to it and stop complaining your in the same place as GREECE the only difference is you the population and know how to dig your way out if you really want???????????????? and blaming every one else for your predicament wont help

                            Tony
                            What part of that goes towards taxes? Aren't you paying around $5 per gallon in taxes?

                            Mark
                            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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