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  • #31
    Re: The People Have Spoken!

    Unfortunately NH, teachers making an excellent wage are still failing these kids in the classroom, so the idea of low wage paying teachers are the problem, doesn't jive with me. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I would love to see the charts on kids not passing the basic skills test in America. Neshaminy school district that I put the link too...those kids are not passing those tests, and those teachers are making excellent money.

    I do know for a fact that teachers in my surrounding area, make excellent money,bonuses, and benefits, and constantly going back to the school boards for more money, which is creating a major problem in our state. I'm hopeful Tom Corbett will abolish property taxes going towards the schools, cause I don't believe home owners should have a gun to their head with this issue. Plus like I stated, we have 12 million in our state, and only 4 million property owners picking up the major part of the tab, which isn't right.

    Every state has a budget short fall, and while you Union supporters see it as an assault on Unions, we see it as false promises from your Union officials. It was set up to fail from the beginning, and now people are crying foul when it's time to balance the budget in each state.

    To say Teacher's are not in it for the money, that idea my hold true in your state, but in Pennsylvania, we have some very greedy people trying to take advantage of the system, and there will be a fight every step of the way to make sure they don't fleece the tax payer anymore than they have.

    NH, what subject do you teach? Are you a tech school teacher only teaching in a tech school, or do you teach a main subject, then teach tech school afterwards?

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: The People Have Spoken!

      Teachers are failing the kids in the classroom? Really, I suggest you take a day off a visit your local school. Spend some time in the back of the classroom and then get back to me. It's not the teachers failing the kids, its the parents not teaching their kids manners, respect or any kind of work ethic that are failing the kids and it's the kids themselves that are failing themselves. There is zero discipline in schools today because PARENTS and LAWYERS have neutered the system by not allowing any real consequences to occur. You can't give kids in school suspension because they won't show up, and when the don't show up you give them out of school suspension, which is basically a 5 or 10 day vacation for them and then we are REQUIRED by law to allow them to make up anything they missed during that time. Don't give me that CRAP about teachers failing kids in the classroom. We bust our balls for those kids. We do whatever we can to get them on the right path and the IDIOT parents do whatever they can to derail the system. I have NEVER seen a single teacher in my school (and there's 147 of them) that does not put in outstanding effort and time to reach these kids. Most of us stay two to four hours after the last bell, prepping for the next day and most of us show up and hour before the first bell to do the same and on top of that we spend our summers and vacations at workshops and seminars and taking more and more college courses to stay current for our accreditation. The problem is that the general public is ignorant as to what is involved in teaching. I challenge anyone to step into a classroom, stand up in front of 25 kids and engage them, teach them and mentor them and do it 4 times a day. And don't forget to be sensitive to their home life, or the boyfriend that dumped them or the weed they smoke before class or that they are pregnant or being bullied or are the bully or need special help to read or write because they have a learning disorder or want to listen to the Ipod or play with their cell phone or wear gang colors or have A.D.D. or A.D.H.D or are just plain a behavioral nightmare because nobody ever taught them to behave like a human being.

      Then get back to me and tell me they are getting paid too much. I seriously doubt that after a week anybody without teaching experience would even consider doing the job no matter how much money they got paid. And REMEMBER we are responsible for the health, safety, welfare both mental and physical of your child. We feed them when the parents can't be bothered to and we council them when their parents don't know how to. We mold them and prepare them to live and work in this world because most parents are too busy or lazy to. The list of extracurricular programs all designed to help children is mind boggling and most of them are run by teachers on their own time. The entire school community is there to keep kids on the right path and keep them from failure and I know we do the best we can with the resources we have. Complaining about school funding is just plain ignorant. If society is to advance the education of young people is the first stepping stone in the process. There are other ways to cut taxes but de-funding schools should not even be on the table.

      Without our union the district would be able to set individual amounts for each contract which is basically a take it or leave it scenario. Teachers with tenure who are at the top of the pay scale would be cajoled into retiring so that the district can hire a new teacher at close to 1/2 the senior teachers salary. Sounds good but remember that 5 out of 7 attrition rate and you now have a school filled with inexperienced teachers. We still get inexperienced teachers but the way the system woks is that we have enough experienced teachers in the departments to mentor and guide these newbies through the first few years. Having been a mentee and now a mentor myself I can assure you that the system is solid and necessary.

      The average cost of educating a student in our district is 18 thousand a year of which less than 1/4 of that is teacher salary.

      I teach plumbing, HVAC, welding and small engine tech along with math, science, english and history because there is a component of the academics in all subjects.
      Last edited by NHMaster3015; 06-09-2012, 08:09 AM.
      sigpic

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      • #33
        Re: The People Have Spoken!

        Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
        Teachers are failing the kids in the classroom? Really, I suggest you take a day off a visit your local school. Spend some time in the back of the classroom and then get back to me. It's not the teachers failing the kids, its the parents not teaching their kids manners, respect or any kind of work ethic that are failing the kids and it's the kids themselves that are failing themselves. There is zero discipline in schools today because PARENTS and LAWYERS have neutered the system by not allowing any real consequences to occur. You can't give kids in school suspension because they won't show up, and when the don't show up you give them out of school suspension, which is basically a 5 or 10 day vacation for them and then we are REQUIRED by law to allow them to make up anything they missed during that time. Don't give me that CRAP about teachers failing kids in the classroom. We bust our balls for those kids. We do whatever we can to get them on the right path and the IDIOT parents do whatever they can to derail the system. I have NEVER seen a single teacher in my school (and there's 147 of them) that does not put in outstanding effort and time to reach these kids. Most of us stay two to four hours after the last bell, prepping for the next day and most of us show up and hour before the first bell to do the same and on top of that we spend our summers and vacations at workshops and seminars and taking more and more college courses to stay current for our accreditation. The problem is that the general public is ignorant as to what is involved in teaching. I challenge anyone to step into a classroom, stand up in front of 25 kids and engage them, teach them and mentor them and do it 4 times a day. And don't forget to be sensitive to their home life, or the boyfriend that dumped them or the weed they smoke before class or that they are pregnant or being bullied or are the bully or need special help to read or write because they have a learning disorder or want to listen to the Ipod or play with their cell phone or wear gang colors or have A.D.D. or A.D.H.D or are just plain a behavioral nightmare because nobody ever taught them to behave like a human being.

        Then get back to me and tell me they are getting paid too much. I seriously doubt that after a week anybody without teaching experience would even consider doing the job no matter how much money they got paid. And REMEMBER we are responsible for the health, safety, welfare both mental and physical of your child. We feed them when the parents can't be bothered to and we council them when their parents don't know how to. We mold them and prepare them to live and work in this world because most parents are too busy or lazy to. The list of extracurricular programs all designed to help children is mind boggling and most of them are run by teachers on their own time. The entire school community is there to keep kids on the right path and keep them from failure and I know we do the best we can with the resources we have. Complaining about school funding is just plain ignorant. If society is to advance the education of young people is the first stepping stone in the process. There are other ways to cut taxes but de-funding schools should not even be on the table.

        Without our union the district would be able to set individual amounts for each contract which is basically a take it or leave it scenario. Teachers with tenure who are at the top of the pay scale would be cajoled into retiring so that the district can hire a new teacher at close to 1/2 the senior teachers salary. Sounds good but remember that 5 out of 7 attrition rate and you now have a school filled with inexperienced teachers. We still get inexperienced teachers but the way the system woks is that we have enough experienced teachers in the departments to mentor and guide these newbies through the first few years. Having been a mentee and now a mentor myself I can assure you that the system is solid and necessary.

        The average cost of educating a student in our district is 18 thousand a year of which less than 1/4 of that is teacher salary.

        I teach plumbing, HVAC, welding and small engine tech along with math, science, english and history because there is a component of the academics in all subjects.
        I can't imagine the situation getting better given this atmosphere of disrespect by adults, problems with students you mentioned, and the opposite of support, and encouragement from your school administration. The most enthusiastic person determined to follow such a noble profession would find such obstacles disappointing. I wonder how many good people are rethinking entering the teaching profession because of all the negativity? Instead of listening to talking points, critics should get up close and personal to the situation and decide for themselves. Unfortunately, in spite of teaching being a very important and noble profession, we still have a broken, failed economy. People find it easier on their conscience to demonize the people they hurt.
        Until our economy improves I feel we will see more of this cannibalism. Maybe there will be some letting up on the police and firefighters because the threat they address is more imminent, few people have the foresight to understand how the lack of a good education hurts our society.

        I just have to ask the Forum once again. Does anyone see a way for our economy to turn around and resolve all these serious issues?
        I'm talking fixing the big problems, not cutting pay, and benefits which does nothing to address the deficit or unemployment!
        Last edited by Frankiarmz; 06-09-2012, 10:09 AM.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: The People Have Spoken!

          Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
          Teachers are failing the kids in the classroom? Really, I suggest you take a day off a visit your local school. Spend some time in the back of the classroom and then get back to me. It's not the teachers failing the kids, its the parents not teaching their kids manners, respect or any kind of work ethic that are failing the kids and it's the kids themselves that are failing themselves. There is zero discipline in schools today because PARENTS and LAWYERS have neutered the system by not allowing any real consequences to occur. You can't give kids in school suspension because they won't show up, and when the don't show up you give them out of school suspension, which is basically a 5 or 10 day vacation for them and then we are REQUIRED by law to allow them to make up anything they missed during that time. Don't give me that CRAP about teachers failing kids in the classroom. We bust our balls for those kids. We do whatever we can to get them on the right path and the IDIOT parents do whatever they can to derail the system. I have NEVER seen a single teacher in my school (and there's 147 of them) that does not put in outstanding effort and time to reach these kids. Most of us stay two to four hours after the last bell, prepping for the next day and most of us show up and hour before the first bell to do the same and on top of that we spend our summers and vacations at workshops and seminars and taking more and more college courses to stay current for our accreditation. The problem is that the general public is ignorant as to what is involved in teaching. I challenge anyone to step into a classroom, stand up in front of 25 kids and engage them, teach them and mentor them and do it 4 times a day. And don't forget to be sensitive to their home life, or the boyfriend that dumped them or the weed they smoke before class or that they are pregnant or being bullied or are the bully or need special help to read or write because they have a learning disorder or want to listen to the Ipod or play with their cell phone or wear gang colors or have A.D.D. or A.D.H.D or are just plain a behavioral nightmare because nobody ever taught them to behave like a human being.

          Then get back to me and tell me they are getting paid too much. I seriously doubt that after a week anybody without teaching experience would even consider doing the job no matter how much money they got paid. And REMEMBER we are responsible for the health, safety, welfare both mental and physical of your child. We feed them when the parents can't be bothered to and we council them when their parents don't know how to. We mold them and prepare them to live and work in this world because most parents are too busy or lazy to. The list of extracurricular programs all designed to help children is mind boggling and most of them are run by teachers on their own time. The entire school community is there to keep kids on the right path and keep them from failure and I know we do the best we can with the resources we have. Complaining about school funding is just plain ignorant. If society is to advance the education of young people is the first stepping stone in the process. There are other ways to cut taxes but de-funding schools should not even be on the table.

          Without our union the district would be able to set individual amounts for each contract which is basically a take it or leave it scenario. Teachers with tenure who are at the top of the pay scale would be cajoled into retiring so that the district can hire a new teacher at close to 1/2 the senior teachers salary. Sounds good but remember that 5 out of 7 attrition rate and you now have a school filled with inexperienced teachers. We still get inexperienced teachers but the way the system woks is that we have enough experienced teachers in the departments to mentor and guide these newbies through the first few years. Having been a mentee and now a mentor myself I can assure you that the system is solid and necessary.

          The average cost of educating a student in our district is 18 thousand a year of which less than 1/4 of that is teacher salary.

          I teach plumbing, HVAC, welding and small engine tech along with math, science, english and history because there is a component of the academics in all subjects.
          So who was the one that held a gun to your head to become a teacher? That sounded more like a sob story then anything else, and it makes one wonder why you do it in the first place. If you truly love and care about the kids, then it shouldn't matter what you're being paid because you're doing it cause you love it. If it's truly that bad...then quit and get into a career which pays you more money.

          I wonder if we should pay people working at McDonald's $40.00 an hr cause they have to deal with people coming in drunk, high on weed, and just flat out disrespectful because they were not raised right. Heck...I say we pay them $50.00 an hour and add a bonus on top of it to have to put up with nonsense like that.

          It's also common knowledge that most tech teachers have off setting incomes like yourself (you with your plumbing business), tech teachers don't make any where near a regular teacher would...at least it's like that in my state. You're making the national average for being a tech teacher...so I don't see the problem there.

          Who's responsible in your state (or any state) to chart the progress of these kids in the class room? When these kids take state tests, those scores go to the state, and that is where they determine if they are measuring up in the class room or not. It's not a matter of an opinion, but facts that these kids can't read or write if they can't pass the basic skills test. So who's fault is that if they can't pass the basic skills test...the parents or teachers?

          For 9 months worth of work, I and the majority would say they have a nice gig going, and paid accordingly with a nice salary and killer benefits. For every teacher you say is doing classes,workshops etc..in the summer hours, I will show you a teacher who is on vacation, lounging around the house, drinking beer, and having a good time.
          Last edited by Flux; 06-09-2012, 09:55 AM.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: The People Have Spoken!

            Wow Flux, you are one disrespectful guy! You want compare the pay and benefits afforded to teachers to McDonalds employees? You insult college graduates entrusted with educating our children when you should be thanking God such people exist! I won't use similar behavior to attack your profession because I was taught better. Your mind ain't right in my opinion. Frank!

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: The People Have Spoken!

              I don't know for the life of me why teachers have been put on such a high pedestal, it's a job that deserves respect but certainly not one that should be above reproach. I have a question though, if public school teachers are doing such a bang up job how come most private parochial school teachers, who more often than not work for less pay and benefits, consistently produce students who test much higher than public school students? I'll give you a hint, most of the answer to that question really has little to do with the teachers themselves but more to do with the system as a whole.

              BTW, I don't think FLUX was being disrespectful at all. A difference of opinion is not disrespectful as long it is presented in a civil manner, which I think FLUX did.
              Teach your kids about taxes..........eat 30 percent of their ice cream.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: The People Have Spoken!

                Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                Wow Flux, you are one disrespectful guy! You want compare the pay and benefits afforded to teachers to McDonalds employees? You insult college graduates entrusted with educating our children when you should be thanking God such people exist! I won't use similar behavior to attack your profession because I was taught better. Your mind ain't right in my opinion. Frank!
                Yea Frank....sometimes I can't help myself and the tough things need to be said. If you wish to spin it that way...be my guess, but don't forget college graduates also work at McDonalds. I can't give thanks to people who are forcing seniors out of their homes because they can't afford the property taxes anymore...how American is that Frank? I'm glad to see you condone those type of practices, but that's to be expected because you were brain washed to think that way from your Union Official.


                I deal with criminals,drunks, people high on weed,pedophiles, murders, etc in my trade, and I'm not on here crying the blues because I made a "choice" to pursue that career. I know what it pays and I'm fine with it, as I bought a brand new house, have money in my pocket, and living the American dream.

                If you want a real example of being disrespectful, look no further than what we saw in Wisconsin displayed by the Public Unions...it was down right criminal what they did there.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: The People Have Spoken!

                  Originally posted by BadgerDave View Post
                  BTW, I don't think FLUX was being disrespectful at all. A difference of opinion is not disrespectful as long it is presented in a civil manner, which I think FLUX did.
                  Correct...I didn't mean no disrespect to NH or any other Union member...just stating things how I see it and sparring a little bit.

                  I can't fault any state that is trying to get their budget in order, and the Public Unions are the one who are going to feel the brunt of it because of false hope coming from the Union halls.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: The People Have Spoken!

                    Originally posted by Flux View Post
                    So who was the one that held a gun to your head to become a teacher? That sounded more like a sob story then anything else, and it makes one wonder why you do it in the first place. If you truly love and care about the kids, then it shouldn't matter what you're being paid because you're doing it cause you love it. If it's truly that bad...then quit and get into a career which pays you more money
                    .

                    Nobody held a gun to my head. Teaching is a choice like any other job. Do you work for nothing? I suspect that like most folks you expect to be well compensated for the work you do. But that's different right, because you don't get paid by taxpayer money?

                    I wonder if we should pay people working at McDonald's $40.00 an hr cause they have to deal with people coming in drunk, high on weed, and just flat out disrespectful because they were not raised right. Heck...I say we pay them $50.00 an hour and add a bonus on top of it to have to put up with nonsense like that.
                    People that work at McDonalds or most places for that matter are not responsible nor liable for the patrons. Understand that teachers are liable for their students safety and well being and can be fired or sued if a child is hurt, molested or even emotionally damaged. Teachers also need to have a 4 year bachelors degree and take very specific courses on child development and psychology. In short, most of us deal with more "clients" that social workers and psychologists and we do it for way less pay.

                    It's also common knowledge that most tech teachers have off setting incomes like yourself (you with your plumbing business), tech teachers don't make any where near a regular teacher would...at least it's like that in my state. You're making the national average for being a tech teacher...so I don't see the problem there.
                    36 years I ran my company before making the decision to give something back to the trade. Offsetting? Just how do you get to offsetting? unless you got an inheritance. You seem to be of the opinion that people in the public sector have no right to make money.
                    We are loosing our machine shop teacher this year. He's a young guy. Just 27. He's been here for 5 years and makes 26 thousand a year. He's moving on to the private sector to head up their educational department at 3 times the salary. How can we compete with that? So now we need to hire someone else that is qualified. Where in hell are we going to find someone that knows CNC and basic machining, can teach CNC and basic machining and do it for 25 thousand a year? So a program that graduated and employed a whole lot of kids in the past 5 years will probably close and those kids will not be there to fill those machining positions but the Pakistanis and Indians sure as hell will. You get what you pay for and nothing is black and white.

                    Who's responsible in your state (or any state) to chart the progress of these kids in the class room? When these kids take state tests, those scores go to the state, and that is where they determine if they are measuring up in the class room or not. It's not a matter of an opinion, but facts that these kids can't read or write if they can't pass the basic skills test. So who's fault is that if they can't pass the basic skills test...the parents or teachers?
                    The D.O.E. is and does. Math, reading and writing skills are steadily improving nation wide. And yes, parents play a huge part in the failure. Students who's parents take an active role in their child's education score much much higher than those that do not and unfortunately, most parents do not. You really have no idea what you are talking about here and sound like a sycophant for Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh who only ever give you a very small part of the story. Those guys are in business to create controversy which creates revenues which makes them money.

                    For 9 months worth of work, I and the majority would say they have a nice gig going, and paid accordingly with a nice salary and killer benefits. For every teacher you say is doing classes,workshops etc..in the summer hours, I will show you a teacher who is on vacation, lounging around the house, drinking beer, and having a good time.
                    Again, you have no freeking clue what you are talking about. We are closed as of Thursday next week. Five days after that I take and am responsible for, 6 students to Kansas city for the Skills competition. The week after I get back I am at U.N.H. for 5 weeks taking workshops and seminars for certification and in between I start teaching adult ed classes and remediation classes. That's not unusual. Most of us do similar. All in all I will get a little over two weeks to myself most summers. Oh yea, and on top of that at night and in my free time I get to rewrite all my course competencies, assessments and rubrics for 4 courses.

                    The big problem with public education would be the public's ignorance of what we do.
                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: The People Have Spoken!

                      Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                      ...............The big problem with public education would be the public's ignorance of what we do.
                      Now that is one fine example of disrespectfully talking down to the taxpayer! C'mon NH you know that isn't true at all. Oh wait, I forgot, everything is fine in the private sector, right, oops I mean left.
                      Teach your kids about taxes..........eat 30 percent of their ice cream.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: The People Have Spoken!

                        Dave, when was the last time you went down to your local high school and observed for the day? or talked with teachers, administrators, guidance councilors about the daily goings on? I'm betting probably never which is what probably 90% of folks with kids in public schools do. Or, find your state DOE web site and research what is going on these days, again, probably never. It's hard to take the words of folks that only know half the story seriously. So many unwarranted and untrue statements are made about teachers and public school systems. I'd wager that most of us know more about your kids than you do. We typically spend a whole lot more time with them than parents do, especially when they reach high school.. If I had a dollar for every time a parent has found out from a teacher or administrator their kid was smoking or selling weed I'd be a whole lot richer.

                        I would like to think that the successes I have had teaching the past 5 years are because I am an exceptional teacher but I know that's just not true. For every bad teacher (and I admit there are some) there are two dozen or more exceptional teachers and I know that because I am there every day. I see what other teachers are doing and I talk with them daily and the passion that I see on a daily basis is amazing.
                        Last edited by NHMaster3015; 06-09-2012, 01:09 PM.
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                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: The People Have Spoken!

                          Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                          The big problem with public education would be the public's ignorance of what we do.
                          No the big problem is the waste of taxpayer funds by the Depts. of Education adminastrators. I will give (2) examples I could give many more. (1) the head of IT for Balt. City schools just spent $250,000.00 renovating his office. I could build you a nice house for that. (2) the driver for the Supt.of Balt. City schools makes $92,000.00 a year plus bennys. The school systems Admin. waste the money they are intrusted with then say they need more & the ones who end up paying are the Students, Teachers, Support staff & the Taxpayers. NH of those 5 out of 7 teachers who leave how many were driven out by poor supervisors. I do know a little about what goes on in our educational systems my father is a part-time college professor, my GF is a school teacher & I have (2) cousins that work in maintenance. While we are at it does anyone know about the way teachers are made to teach math these days ? They don't teach it the way we learned & no it is not a better way.

                          Frank one of your questions is how do we increase our of quality of life. How about cut taxes about 50% of what you make goes to the Government. Make the Government do their job with less it can done if it is better managed ( yes I like to dream). If people have more to spend most will spend more thus creating more jobs, but the government wants your money to create non-revenue producing jobs. President Obama has stated we need to create more government jobs to bring the unemployment rate down. By the way what does it take to get fired from a Government job? Look we can all rant all we want, but nothing is going to change, because the politicians of both parties don't want to solve the problem. They just want to keep their job, bennies & the perks that go with it.
                          Watch what happening in Europe it will be coming here next.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: The People Have Spoken!

                            Originally posted by MR.FUDD View Post
                            No the big problem is the waste of taxpayer funds by the Depts. of Education adminastrators. I will give (2) examples I could give many more. (1) the head of IT for Balt. City schools just spent $250,000.00 renovating his office. I could build you a nice house for that. (2) the driver for the Supt.of Balt. City schools makes $92,000.00 a year plus bennys. The school systems Admin. waste the money they are intrusted with then say they need more & the ones who end up paying are the Students, Teachers, Support staff & the Taxpayers. NH of those 5 out of 7 teachers who leave how many were driven out by poor supervisors. I do know a little about what goes on in our educational systems my father is a part-time college professor, my GF is a school teacher & I have (2) cousins that work in maintenance. While we are at it does anyone know about the way teachers are made to teach math these days ? They don't teach it the way we learned & no it is not a better way.

                            Frank one of your questions is how do we increase our of quality of life. How about cut taxes about 50% of what you make goes to the Government. Make the Government do their job with less it can done if it is better managed ( yes I like to dream). If people have more to spend most will spend more thus creating more jobs, but the government wants your money to create non-revenue producing jobs. President Obama has stated we need to create more government jobs to bring the unemployment rate down. By the way what does it take to get fired from a Government job? Look we can all rant all we want, but nothing is going to change, because the politicians of both parties don't want to solve the problem. They just want to keep their job, bennies & the perks that go with it.
                            Watch what happening in Europe it will be coming here next.
                            Mr. Fudd, I agree with your post, and fear you are right about our future. I as a Union supporter understand it is impossible to sustain the salaries, and benefits of many of these public workers in this failing economy, but why don't more people see beyond this reality ? Increasing government jobs or using taxpayer money to pay for projects that temporarily employ folks accomplishes nothing to fix unemployment long term! The misuse of gov't funds and fruad must stop, but will it? I am very disappointed fellow Forum members fail to see the importance of teachers and go beyond that to post critisims they would not want used to describe their professions or trades.
                            I am upset by the unsustainable pensions and some other contract negotiated benefits some Unions folks receive, and while I feel that must be addressed, I see nothing being done about what I think are bigger, more critical problems facing America.

                            I hope Romney gets elected because President Obama has done nothing to improve our serious situations. I don't want any America President to fail, I don't want America to fail. I certainly want our teachers to be held in high regard because our youth, our future is entrusted to them. How can any rational, thinking man not see that fact, and be oblivious to their plight?
                            Last edited by Frankiarmz; 06-09-2012, 02:52 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: The People Have Spoken!

                              Look, there is corruption in every facet of business whether its government sponsored or private sector. I can't and won't defend those things that are indefensible nor should anyone with integrity and conscious but I am tired of having to defend what teachers do and how much they should or should not get paid to do it so once again, you guys all put down a number. What are you willing to pay a dedicated, professional and highly skilled teacher? and those that don't fit the catagory should be doing something else for a living, I will not defend their lack of commitment either.

                              Math MrFudd...ahh yes math. Here's my theory. About 40 years ago someone came up with the notion that learning by rote (i.e. flash cards etc) was not a good way to learn. Undoubtedly some child psychologist discovered that children learn best by doing and seeing, so in an attempt to revitalize the curriculum they decided to scrap the old flash card method and teach the theory behind math. The problem with that is 1st graders are not ready for theory. When Mrs. Johnson puts 5 apples on the desk and asks the kids "how many apples" most kids will see the apples as single items that must be added so out come the fingers. One, two three and so forth. Great! they have learned to count which is a valuable thing to do and the basis for all math but at some point they need to see the whole rather than the parts. In order to progress rapidly in math certain relationships need to be committed to memory as is when you see the number 4 and the number 8 the sums are all right in your head at your disposal, instantly. 12 if we are adding 4 if subtracting 24 for multiplication and two if dividing. These need to be automatic responses to numeric stimulus. An example would be the automatic snap of your neck in the direction of a pretty girl. It occurs without thinking. (well, unless you are gay in which case it would be a guy) Those basic functions need to be automatic in order to progress. What happens though is too many kids never progress past the "counting" stage and when they are moved on to algebra they stumble because unlike the students that "got it" they not only have to decipher the new formulas and how to apply them; they are still counting too which puts them at a distinct disadvantage and behind the others in the class. Teachers, not knowing how to handle the lack of basic skills do the best they can and move them on to algebra 2, geometry etc. We are now beginning to realize that the shortcomings in math go all the way back to grade school. Unfortunately as kids get older that basic rote skill is harder to teach.
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                              • #45
                                Re: The People Have Spoken!

                                Originally posted by MR.FUDD View Post
                                No the big problem is the waste of taxpayer funds by the Depts. of Education adminastrators. I will give (2) examples I could give many more. (1) the head of IT for Balt. City schools just spent $250,000.00 renovating his office. I could build you a nice house for that. (2) the driver for the Supt.of Balt. City schools makes $92,000.00 a year plus bennys. The school systems Admin. waste the money they are intrusted with then say they need more & the ones who end up paying are the Students, Teachers, Support staff & the Taxpayers. NH of those 5 out of 7 teachers who leave how many were driven out by poor supervisors. I do know a little about what goes on in our educational systems my father is a part-time college professor, my GF is a school teacher & I have (2) cousins that work in maintenance. While we are at it does anyone know about the way teachers are made to teach math these days ? They don't teach it the way we learned & no it is not a better way.

                                Frank one of your questions is how do we increase our of quality of life. How about cut taxes about 50% of what you make goes to the Government. Make the Government do their job with less it can done if it is better managed ( yes I like to dream). If people have more to spend most will spend more thus creating more jobs, but the government wants your money to create non-revenue producing jobs. President Obama has stated we need to create more government jobs to bring the unemployment rate down. By the way what does it take to get fired from a Government job? Look we can all rant all we want, but nothing is going to change, because the politicians of both parties don't want to solve the problem. They just want to keep their job, bennies & the perks that go with it.
                                Watch what happening in Europe it will be coming here next.
                                Mr. Fudd, I don't know if Maryland is the same as Minnesota, but here if a Superintendent wanted to remodel his office, the Board of Ed. (local) would have to approve it. These (board) are local people elected by their peers to govern the school. I agree that example should not happen, but where does the blame really lie? By the way, around here Supers do not have drivers.

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