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The People Have Spoken!

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  • The People Have Spoken!

    Gov. Walker has won the recall vote and I think it sends a clear message that the voters did not want a return to the past. I don't think the economy of that state or the country can be repaired and sustained by belt tightening, but until this plan is proven otherwise it will be the accepted fix.
    I still think we need to make what we consume and all the rest I've been ranting about, so let's see what the future holds. I wonder if President Obama still thinks he has done a great job for the people? Frank

  • #2
    Re: The People Have Spoken!

    Yes Frank, This is the beginning. Soo happy to see this.
    I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

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    • #3
      Re: The People Have Spoken!

      Thank God!

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      • #4
        Re: The People Have Spoken!

        Yesterday was a very good day!
        Teach your kids about taxes..........eat 30 percent of their ice cream.

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        • #5
          Re: The People Have Spoken!

          Public service employees are in a tough spot. Traditionally, they have been given compensation packages that typically included health care and some sort of pension. I don't think too many municipalities considered that the rising health care costs for current employees, along with the increasing number of retirees who draw pensions and health care benefits, would eventually be this expensive to taxpayers. When the economy is in a recession, municipalities still need to make the payments, and the taxpayers, who themselves are in dire straits due to the economy, and still on the hook.

          I give the unions credit for lobbying for better working conditions and retirement, and there are a lot of current and retired public service employees who are enjoying these very good benefits. At the same time, though, I think we need to accept the fact that the way the system is set up, it is simply not sustainable unless some sort of cap or governance is put into place to manage the tax and expense balance.

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          • #6
            Re: The People Have Spoken!

            Originally posted by JoePolvino View Post
            Public service employees are in a tough spot. Traditionally, they have been given compensation packages that typically included health care and some sort of pension. I don't think too many municipalities considered that the rising health care costs for current employees, along with the increasing number of retirees who draw pensions and health care benefits, would eventually be this expensive to taxpayers. When the economy is in a recession, municipalities still need to make the payments, and the taxpayers, who themselves are in dire straits due to the economy, and still on the hook.

            I give the unions credit for lobbying for better working conditions and retirement, and there are a lot of current and retired public service employees who are enjoying these very good benefits. At the same time, though, I think we need to accept the fact that the way the system is set up, it is simply not sustainable unless some sort of cap or governance is put into place to manage the tax and expense balance.
            Great post Joe. I'm a Union supporter but still understand that in this economy it is impossible to keep up with inflation. I didn't see how some cities such as New York have not failed yet considering the huge pensions they pay to folks who are living thirty or more years beyond their retirement? I still think it's shortsighted to think we can tighten our belts to a sustainable economy. I believe Union pay, benefits and pensions can be frozen and reduced, wealthy folks can be taxed for all they are worth, government spending can be cut, and still not truly improve our economy. Consider how many Americans are out of work due to their jobs moving out of the country, consider how much you spend on goods made outside of the USA. Unless that equation changes, all that will be accomplished by "cuts" will be a further weakening of our economy as reduced consumer spending takes it's toll.

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            • #7
              Re: The People Have Spoken!

              Here's my question; Who does abolishing collective bargaining benefit? Does anyone really think that any savings there are going to be rebated to the taxayer? If you do I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. You get what you pay for. People piss and moan about the supposed high salaries and benefits of public employees but a good deal of these folks are responsible for keeping you, your home and property safe and educating, babysitting and molding your children. Do you really want to put those jobs out to the lowest bidder? Here's who benefits from abolishing collective bargaining, the corporations and businesses that can now lower salaries or stall raises and benefit packages because they can always find some schmuck that will do the job for less money. There was no victory in Wisconsin. A precedent was set that will have lasting effects on other states, cities and towns for years to come. In education it is already hard to find anyone qualified or experienced that is willing to work for chicken feed considering the responsibilities on their shoulders so without collective bargaining you can fully expect the experienced and good teachers to move along to other institutions where they get paid well and respected. If you think the public schools are failing now, just wait till the unions are busted and see what happens.
              sigpic

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              • #8
                Re: The People Have Spoken!

                Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                Here's my question; Who does abolishing collective bargaining benefit? Does anyone really think that any savings there are going to be rebated to the taxayer? If you do I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. You get what you pay for. People piss and moan about the supposed high salaries and benefits of public employees but a good deal of these folks are responsible for keeping you, your home and property safe and educating, babysitting and molding your children. Do you really want to put those jobs out to the lowest bidder? Here's who benefits from abolishing collective bargaining, the corporations and businesses that can now lower salaries or stall raises and benefit packages because they can always find some schmuck that will do the job for less money. There was no victory in Wisconsin. A precedent was set that will have lasting effects on other states, cities and towns for years to come. In education it is already hard to find anyone qualified or experienced that is willing to work for chicken feed considering the responsibilities on their shoulders so without collective bargaining you can fully expect the experienced and good teachers to move along to other institutions where they get paid well and respected. If you think the public schools are failing now, just wait till the unions are busted and see what happens.
                NHMaster, I applaud your post. I think the country needs to get this Union busting out of it's system so we can really address the economics that got us to this point. I submitted the following letter to my newspaper, following an article describing efforts to close a budget gap by having our teachers take a pay freeze and possible pay cut to save jobs!

                "To The Editor:

                I found the article "Boe and unions to meet on budget" in thursday's Hour interesting. Board of Education Chairman xxxxxxxx commented, " We are not looking to the teachers to fix the problem, but the economy is basically the country's problem (but we all have to deal with it now)". I believe that comment is key to understanding why our economy is in serious trouble and predictably going to get worse. I do not want to demonize xxxxxxxx, or our Mayor, they, like Governor Walker of Wisconsin are doing their best with an almost impossible situation. I just think we cannot expect our public employees to temporarily resolve these budget crisis, while no one is working to "fix" the problem!
                Public workers represent the middle class, which make up most of our country's work force. When I hear reports of consumer spending being down, and then hear of pay cuts, pay freezes, privatizing, and outsourcing applied to this sector, I wonder what our legislators are thinking? How can we expect a strong economy if we continue to chip away at the economic strength of these workers?
                Clearly, the voters in Wisconsin did not want a return to their failing economy, but did they consider the improvement temporary?. Political leaders around the country are looking to "not fix" their budget problems in a similar fashion. I just hope people who think these actions are the answer to our economic situation will look at the labels on the clothes they buy, appliances, electronics, cars and other consumer goods. I hope they connect the dots between our failed economy and the outflow of our consumer wealth to other countries. How many more years of pay freezes, pay cuts and other such actions can our society sustain before it collapses? I believe our public workers, and the rest of us deserve to have the problem that is not theirs or ours fixed!"

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                • #9
                  Re: The People Have Spoken!

                  Why is it that whenever there is any kind of challenge at all, no matter how small or big it may be, to the power/influence of a union that unionist immediately jump on the imaginary "union busting" bandwagon. Time and time again here in WI during the last 14 months they would yell and holler at the top of their lungs the "union busting" claim. However, I saw zero evidence that anyone was trying to bust up any union. As a matter of fact, I'm fairly certain that no public employee union has ceased to exist since our Governor took office.

                  The original subject of this thread was the recall election here in WI and I'm only speaking to that subject. This recall election was about so much more than just collective bargaining. Yes, that issue, raised by the unions, was the catalyst for the original recall movement but it became so much more than that. Many people, myself included, found the recall itself to be a sham and in my case I found it to be unamerican. The Governor and the State Legislators who faced recall did nothing illegal or immoral to warrant their removal from office. They all won their elected offices fair and square and yet found themselves in a battle to keep those jobs simply because a few didn't agree with their politics. The ease in which a recall can be started here in WI is I'm ashamed to say far to easy.
                  Last edited by BadgerDave; 06-07-2012, 08:12 PM.
                  Teach your kids about taxes..........eat 30 percent of their ice cream.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The People Have Spoken!

                    Originally posted by BadgerDave View Post
                    Why is it that whenever there is any kind of challenge at all, no matter how small or big it may be, to the power/influence of a union that unionist immediately jump on the imaginary "union busting" bandwagon. Time and time again here in WI during the last 14 months they would yell and holler at the top of their lungs the "union busting" claim. However, I saw zero evidence that anyone was trying to bust up any union. As a matter of fact, I'm fairly certain that no public employee union has ceased to exist since our Governor took office.

                    The original subject of this thread was the recall election here in WI and I'm only speaking to that subject. This recall election was about so much more than just collective bargaining. Yes, that issue, raised by the unions, was the catalyst for the original recall movement but it became so much more than that. Many people, myself included, found the recall itself to be a sham and in my case I found it to be unamerican. The Governor and the State Legislators who faced recall did nothing illegal or immoral to warrant their removal from office. They all won their elected offices fair and square and yet found themselves in a battle to keep those jobs simply because a few didn't agree with their politics. The ease in which a recall can be started here in WI is I'm ashamed to say far to easy.
                    Dave, if you don't think that is the first step in union busting, I, like NHM, have a bridge to sell you.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The People Have Spoken!

                      There must be a talking points rule book the teachers Union must hand out to it's members, cause it's always about the children when these people are crying for money.

                      But yet these kids today lack the basic skills to read and write, with cases of teacher fraud throughout the country, but yet they need more money for what?

                      I want to see a break down of how much taxpaying money goes into the teachers and Union official pockets, and how much money is actually spent on the student. I'll bet the house the majority is going into the pockets of those crying the blues today.

                      Awesome win in Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania isn't far behind.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The People Have Spoken!

                        Originally posted by Flux View Post
                        There must be a talking points rule book the teachers Union must hand out to it's members, cause it's always about the children when these people are crying for money.

                        But yet these kids today lack the basic skills to read and write, with cases of teacher fraud throughout the country, but yet they need more money for what?

                        I want to see a break down of how much taxpaying money goes into the teachers and Union official pockets, and how much money is actually spent on the student. I'll bet the house the majority is going into the pockets of those crying the blues today.

                        Awesome win in Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania isn't far behind.
                        Everytime I read about our legislators trying to take back from the teachers they always say the teachers don't care about the kids. Flux, most teachers do care because there are a lot easier, less stressful ways to earn that money. Look at where these kids come from and place blame there first! They are disrespectful, lazy and demanding ( I just described one of my kids and I'm tough!) A lot of parents avoid confrontation and the results are very difficult kids in the classroom. Teachers can't smack'em, can't confiscate their ipods, cell phones and other distractions.

                        I'm glad Gov Walker won, it is time to freeze pay, cut pay, cut benefits and see that you still have a broken economy. President Obama can't fix the economy by taxing the wealthy, and the republicans can't fix it by taking back from public workers and other Union members. We need to plug up the biggest leaks, jobs and the loss of consumer wealth to foreign powers. No one seems that upset with 20 million illegals no t paying taxes, committing fraud and burdening our economy. I am not in the least upset that we are headed in this direction because you need to remove the excuses and distractions to get to the root of the problem. All the fraud in big business like solyndra and government, all the abuse in medicaid and social security, and the best we can do is look to this as a solution? The upturn is temporary at best in my opinion. I'm no economist, so I could be wrong, but I don't see the math of cutting as a solution to the deficits we have. How does the 16 trillion debt get resolved, not by cutting pay and taxes! MY last comment is we will see, with any luck not before it's too late.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The People Have Spoken!

                          Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                          Everytime I read about our legislators trying to take back from the teachers they always say the teachers don't care about the kids. Flux, most teachers do care because there are a lot easier, less stressful ways to earn that money. Look at where these kids come from and place blame there first! They are disrespectful, lazy and demanding ( I just described one of my kids and I'm tough!) A lot of parents avoid confrontation and the results are very difficult kids in the classroom. Teachers can't smack'em, can't confiscate their ipods, cell phones and other distractions.

                          I'm glad Gov Walker won, it is time to freeze pay, cut pay, cut benefits and see that you still have a broken economy. President Obama can't fix the economy by taxing the wealthy, and the republicans can't fix it by taking back from public workers and other Union members. We need to plug up the biggest leaks, jobs and the loss of consumer wealth to foreign powers. No one seems that upset with 20 million illegals no t paying taxes, committing fraud and burdening our economy. I am not in the least upset that we are headed in this direction because you need to remove the excuses and distractions to get to the root of the problem. All the fraud in big business like solyndra and government, all the abuse in medicaid and social security, and the best we can do is look to this as a solution? The upturn is temporary at best in my opinion. I'm no economist, so I could be wrong, but I don't see the math of cutting as a solution to the deficits we have. How does the 16 trillion debt get resolved, not by cutting pay and taxes! MY last comment is we will see, with any luck not before it's too late.
                          The more telling story Frank is...a left leaning state (Wisconsin) who normally sides with Unions, decided this election. Gov. Walker gave the Union a choice and they thumbed their nose at it, so I have no sympathy what-so-ever..and they got what they deserved. Many of those same public union employees were sick and tired of the way their money was being spent from Union officials.

                          My High school currently has a 900k budget short fall frank...how did that happen? What is their resolution? RAISE TAXES BABY!

                          Neshaminy High School near Philadelphia just went on strike right before these kids were about to graduate...If the teachers truly cared about the kids frank, they wouldn't use them as pawns for monetary gain.

                          The gig is up Frank...people simply can't afford the ever rising costs of Unions and their benefits. People are sick and tired of seeing their tax money going to Unions and then handed right to Democratic campaigns. We are going to see a lot more of this over the next few years, and before the Union people start blaming the voter, they should start with their Union official first for promising them things we simply couldn't sustain.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The People Have Spoken!

                            Originally posted by Pipestone Kid View Post
                            Dave, if you don't think that is the first step in union busting, I, like NHM, have a bridge to sell you.
                            PK, I assume that you're speaking to the collective bargaining process when you say "that is the first step in union busting" yes? The act of collective bargaining in this instance was never intended to be eliminated. What was/is this issue is what could or couldn't be bargained for during contract negotiations. Wages are still in the mix as far as collective bargaining is concerned and were never a target for elimination during this whole mess. So, you and NHM can keep your bridge as I can't afford it due to my already high tax obligation.
                            Teach your kids about taxes..........eat 30 percent of their ice cream.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: The People Have Spoken!

                              Originally posted by BadgerDave View Post
                              PK, I assume that you're speaking to the collective bargaining process when you say "that is the first step in union busting" yes? The act of collective bargaining in this instance was never intended to be eliminated. What was/is this issue is what could or couldn't be bargained for during contract negotiations. Wages are still in the mix as far as collective bargaining is concerned and were never a target for elimination during this whole mess. So, you and NHM can keep your bridge as I can't afford it due to my already high tax obligation.
                              I'll bet your legislators and governor didn't put any of their perks on the list of what could or couldn't be "bargained for".

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