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  • #31
    Re: Colorado Massacre, Your Thoughts

    Well in the case of the border agent killed by drug cartel members, it was our government that supplied the guns. There are milions upon millions of guns that are unregistered, stolen or illegally brought into the country. The same way drugs are illegal but unstoppable because of profit, so too are illegal gun sales. Unlike the law abiding citizen, criminals simply get their guns from other criminals who are not checking credentials but more interested in making money. Since there is little chance of ever stopping drugs or illegal firearms, criminals will continue to obtain guns. Now since I shared my thoughts on criminals and guns, maybe you could respond to my questions in the previous posts? I'll check in the morning, it's late and I'm tired. Need to stay fresh just in case. Good night.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Colorado Massacre, Your Thoughts

      Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
      Well in the case of the border agent killed by drug cartel members, it was our government that supplied the guns. There are milions upon millions of guns that are unregistered, stolen or illegally brought into the country. The same way drugs are illegal but unstoppable because of profit, so too are illegal gun sales. Unlike the law abiding citizen, criminals simply get their guns from other criminals who are not checking credentials but more interested in making money. Since there is little chance of ever stopping drugs or illegal firearms, criminals will continue to obtain guns. Now since I shared my thoughts on criminals and guns, maybe you could respond to my questions in the previous posts? I'll check in the morning, it's late and I'm tired. Need to stay fresh just in case. Good night.
      Yes of course but this again goes back to the fact that so many guns are in circulation and gun ownership is a way of life for everyone including the criminals. I'd be curious how many of these illegal guns are obtained domestically vs being brought in. If most of them are obtained domestically then a lot of this is a self created problem. At this point I'm sure there is no easy solution to the illegal guns.

      I looked at your previous posts but I cannot see what questions you are referring to.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Colorado Massacre, Your Thoughts

        Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
        Tony ,You never miss an opportunity to poke Us Yanks in the eye. It's bad enough for Us to feel this pain without
        Your constant assessments of our constitution , Way of life. Take a hike !
        If you think every time I have an opinion I am poking the you and the US in the eye then that is your problem I am not against guns in general I have been through that part of life but got over it but all my guns were bolt action one shot at a time for hunting roos and wild pigs with an old 303 rabbits with my trusty 22 and a double barrel shot gun for duck hunting a real sportman dosen`t need a semi or automatic rifle or hand gun as there is no sport in hunting that way and if that creep in that theatre could only buy a single shot gun he would have been brought down before he had a chance to kill all the people he did and that is the point that is hidden each time it happens and is about time a civilised society faced up to it and banned these guns.

        Tony

        Tony

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Colorado Massacre, Your Thoughts

          Questions to Blue_can: Have you or anyone you love been the victim of a violent crime?
          Do you think the sole survivor of the CT home invasion in which his wife and daughters were raped, tortured and killed would agree with your assumptions that only criminals and the police should have guns?
          Do you think you have better home defense without a gun, than myself, if the person breaking in has one?
          Would you agree that your sense of security in our society is nothing more than an illusion which could easily be changed upon becoming a victim?
          If it has been impossible to prevent illegal drug and gun traffic, why reserve gun ownership to criminals and not allow law abiding citizens access to guns and even the odds?

          While well intended, I believe Tony and your objection to private citizen gun ownership put the good person at a disadvantage. Our citizenship is under attack from legal and illegal criminals and terrorists, I believe less gun ownership by law abiding citizens encourages crime. Since law enforcement has been unsuccessful so far in eliminating guns from criminals, how do you suggest we the people protect ourselves in a real world scenario?

          Lastly, a question to Tony: Our laws are useless against those who break them. Illegals ignore our immigration laws, drug traffickers ignore our drug laws and the same goes for criminals trafficking and using guns in the commission of crimes. The only people you would distance from gun ownership and posession are those who obey the law. Laws so far have not stopped the criminals, so how do you justify
          keeping the victims unarmed and at a disadvantage?
          Last edited by Frankiarmz; 07-23-2012, 06:01 AM.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Colorado Massacre, Your Thoughts

            I have My share of weapons. Marine Corps training. Wife had private range instruction ,and is more than confident,safe. Violating our home would be a huge mistake. I would be there for My neighbors, or a policeman in trouble in a heart beat.There are many like us out there in this country. If You belong to the NRA You will read this in their Mag.
            HARDLY EVER IN THE ANTI GUN PAPERS OR TV.
            I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Colorado Massacre, Your Thoughts

              Clearly our society has failed to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, so how does it follow that the next best thing is to keep them out of the hands of law abiding citizens? "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness", allow me the opportunity to protect myself, my family, my home. Crime and punishment have failed to deter violent crimes, society should require sane adults be trained in the safe use of firearms and encourage citizens to arm themselves in an effort to reduce violent crimes. Frank

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Colorado Massacre, Your Thoughts

                Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
                I have My share of weapons. Marine Corps training. Wife had private range instruction ,and is more than confident,safe. Violating our home would be a huge mistake. I would be there for My neighbors, or a policeman in trouble in a heart beat.There are many like us out there in this country. If You belong to the NRA You will read this in their Mag.
                HARDLY EVER IN THE ANTI GUN PAPERS OR TV.
                Amen
                26+6=1

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Colorado Massacre, Your Thoughts

                  Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                  Questions to Blue_can: Have you or anyone you love been the victim of a violent crime?
                  Do you think the sole survivor of the CT home invasion in which his wife and daughters were raped, tortured and killed would agree with your assumptions that only criminals and the police should have guns?
                  Do you think you have better home defense without a gun, than myself, if the person breaking in has one?
                  Would you agree that your sense of security in our society is nothing more than an illusion which could easily be changed upon becoming a victim?
                  If it has been impossible to prevent illegal drug and gun traffic, why reserve gun ownership to criminals and not allow law abiding citizens access to guns and even the odds?

                  While well intended, I believe Tony and your objection to private citizen gun ownership put the good person at a disadvantage. Our citizenship is under attack from legal and illegal criminals and terrorists, I believe less gun ownership by law abiding citizens encourages crime. Since law enforcement has been unsuccessful so far in eliminating guns from criminals, how do you suggest we the people protect ourselves in a real world scenario?

                  Lastly, a question to Tony: Our laws are useless against those who break them. Illegals ignore our immigration laws, drug traffickers ignore our drug laws and the same goes for criminals trafficking and using guns in the commission of crimes. The only people you would distance from gun ownership and posession are those who obey the law. Laws so far have not stopped the criminals, so how do you justify
                  keeping the victims unarmed and at a disadvantage?
                  Frank - no I or anyone else I know have not been a victim of a violent crime. However, when I lived in London I was a victim of attempted muggings on 2 or 3 occasions. I called their bluff and refused to give anything so they knew that had to get it by force. They decided not to try. Since gun ownership is not widespread over there I knew the chance of them being armed with a gun was low (which in fact was the case).

                  No 1 priority should be to look at putting a stop to easy access to guns for criminals and people who should not have them - not arming everyone in response. Can you imagine the chaos if all those move goers were armed and then everyone drew their guns and started shooting. In that situation let's say you were armed and you saw a number of people with guns. How would you know who the good guys and bad guys were.

                  Even the police being armed is a problem. I've lost count of the number of times SDPD have shot and killed unarmed people because they thought they were armed.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Colorado Massacre, Your Thoughts

                    Originally posted by blue_can View Post
                    Frank - no I or anyone else I know have not been a victim of a violent crime. However, when I lived in London I was a victim of attempted muggings on 2 or 3 occasions. I called their bluff and refused to give anything so they knew that had to get it by force. They decided not to try. Since gun ownership is not widespread over there I knew the chance of them being armed with a gun was low (which in fact was the case).

                    No 1 priority should be to look at putting a stop to easy access to guns for criminals and people who should not have them - not arming everyone in response. Can you imagine the chaos if all those move goers were armed and then everyone drew their guns and started shooting. In that situation let's say you were armed and you saw a number of people with guns. How would you know who the good guys and bad guys were.

                    Even the police being armed is a problem. I've lost count of the number of times SDPD have shot and killed unarmed people because they thought they were armed.
                    I am glad violent crime has not touched you life and I hope it remains that way. There is no number one priority that has seen progress whether it is stopping illegal drugs, gun posession or all the crimes associated with each. Realistically we can't expect progress on those fronts, we can only expect more and more violent crime and do our best to be prepared.

                    The situation in that movie theatre was unique, and while more shooters may have made things worse, it is entirely possible the lack of armed movie goers emboldened the coward.

                    Today marked the third shooting death in my area since the weekend, not counting the three year old killed by a stray bullet in The Bronx.
                    The illegal handguns are out there and there is no stopping them or the crimanls who use them. I don't know how many "innocent" unarmed civilians have been shot by the police nationwide, but I know plenty of dedicated police officers have been shot by criminals.
                    My point being we are past the point of disarming the criminals, putting an end to drug traffic, or violent crime. We are naive in our thinking and derelict in our duty as citizens to not be well armed and well trained to protect our own lives and property.

                    I believe there are plenty of law abiding citizens who should never posess a handgun, so there must be stricter guidelines to prevent such ownership. I also know there will be senseless, tragic accidental deaths associated with legal gun ownership. This discussion and the decision to own a gun are very serious, unfortunately disarming good people does not seem to dissuade criminals.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Colorado Massacre, Your Thoughts

                      We have laws in place right now to stop criminals from getting their hands on firearms, and federal gun "straw purchases" are in fact illegal in the United States. Every gun show that comes through my area, they always get a dozen or so arrests on people trying to straw purchase.

                      So where does that leave us? Do we simply ban all firearms and ammunition from being bought and sold in the United States? If that happens, how quickly do you think guns will be coming across our borders on the black market?

                      Those that say assault weapons have no place in our society... vehicles that go 200mph have no place either.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Colorado Massacre, Your Thoughts

                        Lastly, a question to Tony: Our laws are useless against those who break them. Illegals ignore our immigration laws, drug traffickers ignore our drug laws and the same goes for criminals trafficking and using guns in the commission of crimes. The only people you would distance from gun ownership and posession are those who obey the law. Laws so far have not stopped the criminals, so how do you justify
                        keeping the victims unarmed and at a disadvantage?[/QUOTE]

                        The problem Frank is our so called civilised societies have lost the ability to punish our criminals example let say the creep who shot all those innocent people was given the death penalty how long would it take until it was carried out one year ten years and where would it be carried out behind closed doors out of the sight of the public justice has to be seen to be done and it isn`t done in the US or Australia so the criminal hire the best solicitors from their ill gotten gains and laugh at society who they play for suckers the legal system laughs all the way to the bank pretending to protect the public the citizen buys more guns thinking they are protecting themselves the gun shop makes more profit and the national rifle association gets more members and the circle is complete and until someone stands up and puts a stop to it it will continue I wonder what guns are on the drawing board in the years to come that can kill more people in less time and will be freely available to all that live in the US

                        Tony
                        Last edited by AFM; 07-23-2012, 11:42 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Colorado Massacre, Your Thoughts

                          That's about it in a nutshell Tony. Criminals are allowed to have careers instead of crime and punishment stopping them dead in their tracks! They are allowed to plea bargain, use the courts and legal system to their advantage, meanwhile good people remain at risk.
                          We have two choices in my opinion, live as potential victims, unarmed against criminals, or obtain a legal firearm, learn how to use it and make it part of our lives.

                          Our jails are overcrowed and even violent criminals rarely serve sentences equal to their crimes. We can't ignore the fact that we are stuck with a sad reality and not a utopia. Tony, no one of authority is standing up, we are powerless, so what do you suggest we do?
                          I don't want to be a lamb lead to slaughter because I refused to protect myself.

                          When the illegals guns are taken away from the criminals, when criminals are properly punished and our safety is not an illusion, you can make an argument for disarming good people. Frank

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Colorado Massacre, Your Thoughts

                            Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
                            Tony ,You never miss an opportunity to poke Us Yanks in the eye. It's bad enough for Us to feel this pain without
                            Your constant assessments of our constitution , Way of life. Take a hike !
                            Tool, thanks for being level headed enough to know that we downunder do not all think alike. Like many here we are disgusted and
                            upset. I personally wish to express my sorrow and offer prayers to all associated.
                            An earlier comment was we need to understand what went wrong. This is not always possible. Unfortunately there are sick bastards all over the world. We have two here who are absolute COWARDS. One here in Melbourne is depriving the most needy of the community of hospital and medical resources becasue of his incessant litigation. this piece of trash is just another coward. Carries out the most disgusting crime of killing innocent people and then stands there and surrenders. I am not GOD but I do believe that this and those alike have given up their right to life. It hurts the parents and families but then what about the innocent victims. We seem to have lost track and the do-gooders are dictating terms. Start handing down appropriate deterents and stop treating this vermin with privileges that teh deserving are so readily deprived of. God Bless America in this tragic time. Unite in sorrow and work to avoid history repeating itself.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Colorado Massacre, Your Thoughts

                              Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
                              I have My share of weapons. Marine Corps training. Wife had private range instruction ,and is more than confident,safe. Violating our home would be a huge mistake. I would be there for My neighbors, or a policeman in trouble in a heart beat.There are many like us out there in this country. If You belong to the NRA You will read this in their Mag.
                              HARDLY EVER IN THE ANTI GUN PAPERS OR TV.
                              I to am a gun owner and hunter. I believe I am responsible. I also belive that our society is very quick to criticise and very backward in coming forth to help. Tool, you are lucky to have had training. Here if you go in the army you are a different person. We want to hug everyone and be nice. We dont believe that it will ever happen to us. most wont get involved for fear of retribution. there are many who ride the train and regularly watch filth abusing and hurting others. There are few who would stand up and object. yet if one stands up, and then another and another the dynamics change quickly.
                              Please dont use this post as a slanging match. Stop and spare a thought for the victims. Stuff the perp, he should rot in hell. lets hope the "he was molested or other story" doesnt come out for his defence. He chose his crime, go away and rot doing your time.
                              Please stop the bickering as a sign of respect for the victims.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Colorado Massacre, Your Thoughts

                                Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                                That's about it in a nutshell Tony. Criminals are allowed to have careers instead of crime and punishment stopping them dead in their tracks! They are allowed to plea bargain, use the courts and legal system to their advantage, meanwhile good people remain at risk.
                                We have two choices in my opinion, live as potential victims, unarmed against criminals, or obtain a legal firearm, learn how to use it and make it part of our lives.

                                Our jails are overcrowed and even violent criminals rarely serve sentences equal to their crimes. We can't ignore the fact that we are stuck with a sad reality and not a utopia. Tony, no one of authority is standing up, we are powerless, so what do you suggest we do?
                                I don't want to be a lamb lead to slaughter because I refused to protect myself.

                                When the illegals guns are taken away from the criminals, when criminals are properly punished and our safety is not an illusion, you can make an argument for disarming good people. Frank
                                Frank a lot has to be said for the LEGAL SOCIETY who feed off the criminals, pleading out with pathetic reasoning etc. Also the JUDGES, are they not charged with acting in our best interests and yet they dont have the guts of their own convictions. Start punishing with no negotiations and get back control of society. There will always be crime, Governments thrive on this. Society just needs to start hardening up and telling our leaders we want more, not less, penalties. Sad when you think that a computer hacker is treated worse than a murderer or pedo

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