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  • #46
    Re: Following the Law, is unLawful

    Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
    Why are we dissecting, projecting, assuming, and defending the mindset of lawful gun owners, and not the disturbed, and criminal element who obtain and misuse firearms?
    Frank, because we have people in this country who don't "understand" fire arm laws, and it was blatantly shown in the first 3 pages of this thread. Using generalizations to describe firearm owners without the facts to back it up, or a common sense approach, just goes to show the ignorance we have in this country.

    Instead of society trying to scare the public about firearms, why don't we try and educate people on firearm laws in this country?

    Let me give you an example of how a M.W.A.G (Man with a gun) call should go with 911. Because we are an open carry state, these stories are extremely common in my state.

    911 - "what's your emergency?"

    Caller - "There is a man in the movie theater with a gun"

    911 - "What is this man doing?" (this should be the correct response from 911)

    Caller - "sitting there watching the movie"

    911 - "Is this man waving his gun around or threatening people?"

    Caller - "No"

    911 - " In the state of CT, it's perfectly legal for a citizen to open carry a firearm as long as he has a permit, as this man is doing nothing illegal. We will send a car by to check out the situation and proceed as necessary".

    Now there is where 911 should of gave the FACTS to the police department so they could of went about the situation much differently then what they did. Politely asking the guy to step out of the movie theater to ask him a few questions, so the police could of got an accurate gauge on this guys mentality would of been a much better approach. People's rights shouldn't be violated if they are not breaking the law.

    We are NEVER going to stop criminals or whacked out people from getting their hands on guns legally or illegally because of straw purchases.

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Following the Law, is unLawful

      Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
      It's been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by the Govt. at a cost of more than $500 Million dollars.The first year results
      are in. Nation wide Homicides up 6.2 percent, assaults up 9.6 percent,armed robberies up 44 percent [ yes 44 percent] ! In the state of victoria alone,homicides are now up 300 percent.
      Australian Politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased . OBAMA WILL DISARM US ,IF REELECTED >
      Tool not having a crack at you but dont know where you got the stats from. Yo are right though, pollys all slapped each other on the back for the wonderful job they did in reducing crime with guns. Not a word about knives until now. another amazing thing is that our coppers have to give public notice that they are conducting body searches for concealed weapons at train stations at set times on set days. still get rocket scientists showing up carrying. The system needs an overhaul but the politicians wan tto go the way of the soft-cocks every time They are afraid of the voters and them loosing office. I remeber many years ago marching one saturday for preserving our rights to have arms. The Pollies said a couple of thousand, the coppers 30k+++++. We are not all red-necks(sorry guys for this term) and most are responsible. Society needs to find blame, generally at any cost. What they dont do is find the real cause, just attack the symptoms whihc generally happen to be guns. Mentl health is always forgotten in budgets. They always seem to find money for green issues but not this most important function. Also there are all too many of us who wont speak up about our fears for others. We ll know people that should never be around anything like guns or knives but we dont speak up. Then againg how often do the police listen anyway. Unfortunately the innocent are almost always the victims.

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Following the Law, is unLawful

        Originally posted by Cleanmen2 View Post
        Tool not having a crack at you but dont know where you got the stats from. Yo are right though, pollys all slapped each other on the back for the wonderful job they did in reducing crime with guns. Not a word about knives until now. another amazing thing is that our coppers have to give public notice that they are conducting body searches for concealed weapons at train stations at set times on set days. still get rocket scientists showing up carrying. The system needs an overhaul but the politicians wan tto go the way of the soft-cocks every time They are afraid of the voters and them loosing office. I remeber many years ago marching one saturday for preserving our rights to have arms. The Pollies said a couple of thousand, the coppers 30k+++++. We are not all red-necks(sorry guys for this term) and most are responsible. Society needs to find blame, generally at any cost. What they dont do is find the real cause, just attack the symptoms whihc generally happen to be guns. Mentl health is always forgotten in budgets. They always seem to find money for green issues but not this most important function. Also there are all too many of us who wont speak up about our fears for others. We ll know people that should never be around anything like guns or knives but we dont speak up. Then againg how often do the police listen anyway. Unfortunately the innocent are almost always the victims.
        That was written from one of Your police officers.
        I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Following the Law, is unLawful

          Originally posted by Flux View Post
          Frank, because we have people in this country who don't "understand" fire arm laws, and it was blatantly shown in the first 3 pages of this thread. Using generalizations to describe firearm owners without the facts to back it up, or a common sense approach, just goes to show the ignorance we have in this country.

          Instead of society trying to scare the public about firearms, why don't we try and educate people on firearm laws in this country?

          Let me give you an example of how a M.W.A.G (Man with a gun) call should go with 911. Because we are an open carry state, these stories are extremely common in my state.

          911 - "what's your emergency?"

          Caller - "There is a man in the movie theater with a gun"

          911 - "What is this man doing?" (this should be the correct response from 911)

          Caller - "sitting there watching the movie"

          911 - "Is this man waving his gun around or threatening people?"

          Caller - "No"

          911 - " In the state of CT, it's perfectly legal for a citizen to open carry a firearm as long as he has a permit, as this man is doing nothing illegal. We will send a car by to check out the situation and proceed as necessary".

          Now there is where 911 should of gave the FACTS to the police department so they could of went about the situation much differently then what they did. Politely asking the guy to step out of the movie theater to ask him a few questions, so the police could of got an accurate gauge on this guys mentality would of been a much better approach. People's rights shouldn't be violated if they are not breaking the law.

          We are NEVER going to stop criminals or whacked out people from getting their hands on guns legally or illegally because of straw purchases.
          Flux, that is how the call and response should have happened, but we have untrained, inept 911 operators and high strung, undertrained police. A couple of days ago a guy with a big kitchen knife was shot and killed by police in NYC when he was stopped for smoking pot and refused to comply by pulling the knife. Now that knife was a deadly weapon, but you mean to tell me not one of the 12 or more offices couldn't taser him? They couldn't throw a few night sticks at his legs or garbage cans to knock him down? I could see if it was just one officer, but there was so many, I think they did not have to use deadly force. Maybe they need a second side arm with rubber bullets?

          I have no problem with using deadly force when there are no options, I just think this guy was more mental than criminal and was being contained so he didn't pose a threat to others at the time.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Following the Law, is unLawful

            Originally posted by Flux View Post
            Isn't "being the boss" and "Dominance of a situation" the same thing?
            Why YES Flux, it is exactly saying the same thing.... but seeing that you didn't comprehend what I was saying the first time, I just figured I ought to rephrase it. I'm glad to see that you finally comprehended that.

            Originally posted by Flux View Post
            You should proof read what you write so you don't have a "foot in mouth" moment.
            Nothing to proof, as nothing was said that was wrong or to be retracted. Unfortunately you still appear unable to understand the context of what I wrote... but, then again maybe you just prefer to be antagonistic. (None of my writing had anything whatsoever to do with the purpose of obtaining a gun license.) So let me ask you in very simple terms:

            If a person is in a heated argument, do you feel that bringing a weapon into it is the way to enforce their position?

            I believe that the vast majority of legal gun owners are mature, level-headed, and responsible enough to know the answer to that.
            Last edited by CWSmith; 08-14-2012, 10:46 AM.

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Following the Law, is unLawful

              Franki,

              I've read a couple of articles/reports of this event. I too find it somewhat disturbing, and at least on what little we know of it, am of the opinion that it could have ended differently. One report stated that after the guy was first confronted, and after several minutes in which a number of onlookers had gathered, the guy ran down the street, slashing out at the gathered crowd (no one was injured though?). Once again the guy was surrounded by police, where he was allegedly tasered, but would not release his knife. It was soon after that he stood and again threatened the officers who now surrounded him and that was answered by their shooting of him.

              While it seems that it could have been handled without the fatal shooting, but certainly not being witness to the tensions that existed, it is questionable. Unfortunately, we see all too much of these kinds of situations; but not being on the scene, it is impossible to pass judgement.

              CWS

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Following the Law, is unLawful

                Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
                Franki,

                I've read a couple of articles/reports of this event. I too find it somewhat disturbing, and at least on what little we know of it, am of the opinion that it could have ended differently. One report stated that after the guy was first confronted, and after several minutes in which a number of onlookers had gathered, the guy ran down the street, slashing out at the gathered crowd (no one was injured though?). Once again the guy was surrounded by police, where he was allegedly tasered, but would not release his knife. It was soon after that he stood and again threatened the officers who now surrounded him and that was answered by their shooting of him.

                While it seems that it could have been handled without the fatal shooting, but certainly not being witness to the tensions that existed, it is questionable. Unfortunately, we see all too much of these kinds of situations; but not being on the scene, it is impossible to pass judgement.

                CWS
                No one dies from a bean bag, but They're subdued, in a human way. All police depts.' should have these !
                I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Following the Law, is unLawful

                  To CWS and All. That situation with the guy killed by police is a tough call either way. We don't have the process and facilities to keep dangerous, mentally ill folks away from mainstream populations, so they wander as ticking timebombs. I did not hear he had been tasered, but tasered, rubber bullets, bean bags or whatever, would he have lived to disfigure or kill another day? He did have a arrest record, and there are thousands like him waiting to go off on unsuspecting, unarmed citizens trying to live their lives in peaceful pursuit. I am totally serious that more folks should be armed and capable of handling a serious, dangerous situation when the police cannot be near.

                  Like most folks who are not in heavily populated areas, where I live it is very quiet. I carry a folding tactical knife, but I would not be a match for a big, strong, quick, younger guy with a similar or larger weapon. Why can't I be better equipped to protect myself when outside of my home? Why should the criminal or disturbed person have the advantage?

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Following the Law, is unLawful

                    Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                    ..........................................
                    Why can't I be better equipped to protect myself when outside of my home? Why should the criminal or disturbed person have the advantage?
                    Exactly! And that also holds true for the Police. Why should they be saddled with using inferior weapons against someone who is trying to take their life? I would hate to see one single Police Officer lose their life because they were forced by policy to use a tasser or bean bag before they could use a bullet. Hell, sometime a bullet doesn't even stop a drugged up wacko! Deadly force is never a desired result but sometimes its the only safe solution.
                    ================================================== ====
                    ~~Don't worry about old age; it doesn't last that long.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Following the Law, is unLawful

                      Originally posted by BadgerDave View Post
                      Exactly! And that also holds true for the Police. Why should they be saddled with using inferior weapons against someone who is trying to take their life? I would hate to see one single Police Officer lose their life because they were forced by policy to use a tasser or bean bag before they could use a bullet. Hell, sometime a bullet doesn't even stop a drugged up wacko! Deadly force is never a desired result but sometimes its the only safe solution.
                      I'm not suggesting we take real guns away from the police. You are right that even real weapons are sometimes not enough, remember when Stamford CT officers had to shoot the chimp that tore off the woman's hands and face? They fired several direct hits and the animal still made it back inside his house. Animals, people on drugs, drunk, or disturded pose a risk to us and the police. I do think it wouldn't hurt to offer additional nonlethal weapons to the police. The down side is that we risk allowing a possibly very dangerous person or beast to take a life in the future.We have people and animals like pit bulls that have hurt others repeatedly and are still a risk. Maybe we need to stop breeding dangerous animals and increase lobotomies?
                      Last edited by Frankiarmz; 08-14-2012, 10:16 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Following the Law, is unLawful

                        Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
                        It's been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by the Govt. at a cost of more than $500 Million dollars.The first year results
                        are in. Nation wide Homicides up 6.2 percent, assaults up 9.6 percent,armed robberies up 44 percent [ yes 44 percent] ! In the state of victoria alone,homicides are now up 300 percent.
                        Australian Politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased . OBAMA WILL DISARM US ,IF REELECTED >
                        Gee you know how to Google Tool but if you have spent more time looking at the facts then you would know what you were talking about when it comes to Australia and the web site you took your stats from Snopes.com looks strangly like a US web site and the so called ex policemen sounds strangely like a one of your pro gun lobbyist and the states are 15 years out of date as the buy back was inforced in 1996 and the buy back was for mainly for semi and auto rifles and shot guns as hand guns were already illegal they wern`t the problem.
                        Just one tit bit since 1996 there has not been one mass killing in Australia due to guns how many have there been in the US in the last 16 years Tool ??

                        Tony

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Following the Law, is unLawful

                          Tony am I correct that the population of your country is 21 or so million? If that number is correct, we have more illegals in the USA. My point is that our populations, density, and so much more make comparisons useless. Consider the number of legal, registered gun owners and crime statistics associated to them. How many murders have you had connected to illegals?, What is your prison population. There is just too much difference between our countries to draw conclusion. Would it be fair to ask how many thousands have died in your country from terrorist attacks? No.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Following the Law, is unLawful

                            Your absolutely right Frank no matter what I say I will never change your mind or others on gun control and I love the arguments we have so I wont try

                            Tony

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Following the Law, is unLawful

                              Originally posted by AFM View Post
                              Your absolutely right Frank no matter what I say I will never change your mind or others on gun control and I love the arguments we have so I wont try

                              Tony
                              Tony, it's too bad your mind is closed to our reality here. We have strick gun control laws on the books. Laws are useless to those who are criminals, and can obtain illegal firearms. We have many more adults and little children dying from gun fire on a daily basis than in those mass killings you mentioned. We have good immigration laws that are not enforced, strict gun control laws that are worthless. We have powerful gangs shooting up the streets and filling our overcrowded prisons. We don't have enough room to house the mentally ill and a legal system that can't handle the case load. You need to open your eyes to our reality which is arm yourself because you are at risk of being killed on a daily basis. Our children are not safe in their bedrooms, playgrounds, or schools, and no gun stricter gun control laws will change that fact. We need better border control, enforcement of immigration laws, and punishment to fit the crimes. Bring back public executions for illegal gun posession with no plea bargains and the problem will be resolved without disarming law abiding citizens.

                              Understand who is killing our children with guns, and explain how any laws will stop them? You can't because it is not a problem of insufficient laws. Try to understand what is happening here and how your argument only serves to disarm the good people who own firearms.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Following the Law, is unLawful

                                Originally posted by AFM View Post
                                Gee you know how to Google Tool but if you have spent more time looking at the facts then you would know what you were talking about when it comes to Australia and the web site you took your stats from Snopes.com looks strangly like a US web site and the so called ex policemen sounds strangely like a one of your pro gun lobbyist and the states are 15 years out of date as the buy back was inforced in 1996 and the buy back was for mainly for semi and auto rifles and shot guns as hand guns were already illegal they wern`t the problem.
                                Just one tit bit since 1996 there has not been one mass killing in Australia due to guns how many have there been in the US in the last 16 years Tool ??

                                Tony
                                Tony, Your comment a while back , says it all . It was to the effect of Us U.S. Men crying, and begging for Mercy. If Your door was kicked in at 2 AM What would You reach for ? Mine, and My Wife's hand would each hold 1 Sig and 1 colt. Sounds like You'd be the one begging for mercy. Why don't You worry about Your Country ? We'll take care of Ours !
                                I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                                Comment

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