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  • Following the Law, is unLawful

    We just had a lawyer who has a carry permit, arrested in New Haven, CT because he had his legal handgun with him in a movie theatre! Seems the theatre management called police to report someone had a gun but this man never displayed the gun so it could have been another patron.
    The cops drew their weapons and ordered each person in the theatre to undergo a pat down which the lawyer refused and was forcibly arrested. What does this all mean? We can't carry a lawful gun into a movie theatre because of what a insame criminal did? What happens if there is a major shooting in a mall next? Where are we headed as a result of the actions of those who do not follow the law?

  • #2
    Re: Following the Law, is unLawful

    It sounds to me like the Cops were totally wrong and stomped all over the rights of a lot of Movie Goers. With the lawyer, first of all they had no reasonable cause to search him and he was legal anyway. He should get himself a good Lawyer!

    The biggest problem with all these kinds of overzealous cop stops etc is that the only ones that catch hell for it is the cops themselves. The Chief or the next one down the ladder are insulated and never seem to receive any punishment for their actions. Someone is briefing these Cops and telling them what they can and cannot do, so it's not their fault unless they over step their bounds and make their own decisions.
    Frequently asked questions about pumps and tanks.

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    • #3
      Re: Following the Law, is unLawful

      I'm sure that laws vary from state to state but here, if a business posts a sign saying no firearms allowed on the premises even those licensed to carry firearms are not allowed to bring them into that business. Law Enforcement is of course exempt from that. People like that lawyer who create a situation just to create a situation shouldn't be allowed to carry a handgun in the first place. Maturity should be a major requirement to own any kind of a weapon and I think that lawyer showed a lack of that, like it would have hurt him to cooperate with the police for the 10 seconds it would have taken to show them his permit!
      Teach your kids about taxes..........eat 30 percent of their ice cream.

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      • #4
        Re: Following the Law, is unLawful

        I think everyone has to understand that given the recent massacre, everybody is on edge; and rightly so. While one may well have a permit to carry, that doesn't necessarily mean that they have the good sense to carry it anywhere. You also have to remember that people have the right to be suspicious, to be on their guard, to bring to the attention of the police anything that looks suspicious. And we as citizens, must have the understanding that at any given moment it is the police who have the responsibility to protect and if that means searching for a weapon in a crowd of people, because of a report, they have that responsibiity to search you, if you are there.

        The lawyer was either stupid or looking to make a story for himself. Given the situation, I would have probably just stepped forward and presented myself to the police, presented my permit and offered my apology for the conflict that I may have presented. If I was legal, than I should have no fear... but, I should damn well have had the foresight and the responsibility to present myself and my weapon in a non-threatening manner. I should also respect what the management feared, and their right to report and that the police had every right to investigate and to protect.

        What if the situation was that the lawyer wasn't the only gun in that theater and it was that someone else, who the management had spotted and called the police on?

        CWS
        Last edited by CWSmith; 08-09-2012, 11:59 AM.

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        • #5
          Re: Following the Law, is unLawful

          I totally smell the Attorney setting up the confrontation. His gun was handled poorly or it would not have been seen by others.

          Mark
          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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          • #6
            Re: Following the Law, is unLawful

            Lawyer explains why he brought gun to Batman showing - U.S. News
            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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            • #7
              Re: Following the Law, is unLawful

              Originally posted by toutahnow View Post
              i totally smell the attorney setting up the confrontation. His gun was handled poorly or it would not have been seen by others.

              Mark
              " my exact thoughts, could be an anti gunner ! "
              I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

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              • #8
                Re: Following the Law, is unLawful

                The lawyer has had a carry permit for years and is in line to be president of the bar association in his area. He does live in a high crime area and I believe he had it for his personal protection. Was he supposed to leave is at the popcorn counter or at home and then become a victim? What's the point of being a law abiding citizen, attaining a carry permit and then not having the gun with you? Maybe if they patted everyone one down prior to entering the movie, and then had enough police on the streets to protect the good people, you could argue he did not have to bring his gun. He is not the criminal here and did not use poor judgement in my opinion. If he had no licensed gun and got hurt or killed in a robbery leaving the theatre, would anyone care?

                Common sense has left our society when folks who obey the law are then criminalized. We recently had a 60year old man attacked by a pit bull who got away from it's owner. The man is in the hospital awaiting reconstructive surgery on his ankle, amaong other injuries. The same dog attacked a different man a while back but that guy fought off the dog with a knife his carried. That man was charged with some kind of animal cruelty!!!! How does that make sense??? I don't go out of the house without my tactical knife and I would not hesitate stabbing an attacking dog, or it's owner! There are some big. powerful, vicious dogs out and about, and you can't protect yourself with bare hands. I refuse to be a victim, or stand by helpless to aid others under attack. Arrest me...

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                • #9
                  Re: Following the Law, is unLawful

                  Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                  The lawyer has had a carry permit for years and is in line to be president of the bar association in his area. He does live in a high crime area and I believe he had it for his personal protection. Was he supposed to leave is at the popcorn counter or at home and then become a victim? What's the point of being a law abiding citizen, attaining a carry permit and then not having the gun with you? Maybe if they patted everyone one down prior to entering the movie, and then had enough police on the streets to protect the good people, you could argue he did not have to bring his gun. He is not the criminal here and did not use poor judgement in my opinion. If he had no licensed gun and got hurt or killed in a robbery leaving the theatre, would anyone care?

                  Common sense has left our society when folks who obey the law are then criminalized. We recently had a 60year old man attacked by a pit bull who got away from it's owner. The man is in the hospital awaiting reconstructive surgery on his ankle, amaong other injuries. The same dog attacked a different man a while back but that guy fought off the dog with a knife his carried. That man was charged with some kind of animal cruelty!!!! How does that make sense??? I don't go out of the house without my tactical knife and I would not hesitate stabbing an attacking dog, or it's owner! There are some big. powerful, vicious dogs out and about, and you can't protect yourself with bare hands. I refuse to be a victim, or stand by helpless to aid others under attack. Arrest me...
                  I don't know Frank I think he has a hidden agenda. There were 12 people in the theater. The other 11 people complied with the SWAT team and exited the theater where they were searched. He remained seated in his chair talking on his cell phone and had to be removed by force.

                  Mark
                  "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                  I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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                  • #10
                    Re: Following the Law, is unLawful

                    Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                    I don't know Frank I think he has a hidden agenda. There were 12 people in the theater. The other 11 people complied with the SWAT team and exited the theater where they were searched. He remained seated in his chair talking on his cell phone and had to be removed by force.

                    Mark
                    Quite possible Mark. I expect we will find out after court. If he got the carry permit, and had the gun only to demonstrate it was both unnecessary and put others at risk, I guess it's possible. I'm more of a trusting person and want to believe he had no agenda beyond trying to stay safe.

                    Correction: I spoke to a few folks I know and they agree that he must have had some "agenda". They believe he allowed the gun to be seen on purpose, whatever that happened to be?
                    Last edited by Frankiarmz; 08-09-2012, 04:16 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Following the Law, is unLawful

                      I've carried doing estimates in sketchy hoods. I like a crumpled up old lunch bag, with My sig .380 in it next to My clip board.
                      I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

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                      • #12
                        Re: Following the Law, is unLawful

                        Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                        Quite possible Mark. I expect we will find out after court. If he got the carry permit, and had the gun only to demonstrate it was both unnecessary and put others at risk, I guess it's possible. I'm more of a trusting person and want to believe he had no agenda beyond trying to stay safe.

                        Correction: I spoke to a few folks I know and they agree that he must have had some "agenda". They believe he allowed the gun to be seen on purpose, whatever that happened to be?
                        It's what any amateur would do who just got a carry permit and was showing off or he's one of those types that has to prove he's better than everyone else, in his case because he can carry. I agree he has a right to carry within the bounds of the law. In most states I'm pretty sure that would include cooperating with police. As CWS said all he had to do was calmly show his permit and the situation would be over and done. BUT, because he is a lawyer and 'knows his rights and the law', he thinks he is just that little bit above the law, and so can do as he pleases or is looking to make a name for himself.

                        Bottom line is he has a right to carry if he has a valid permit. But to my way of thinking he screwed up when he did not cooperate and for that he has caused all this trouble for everyone else and loads of publicity for himself which he probably sees as a good thing.
                        ---------------
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                        • #13
                          Re: Following the Law, is unLawful

                          If you have a concealed carry permit in Maine you are required to keep the weapon out of sight at all times and if it becomes visible and a complaint is filed you loose the permit to carry. I however, do not believe in concealed carry permits. They are another fee or hidden tax with absolutely not real purpose other than to separate one from one's money. As G. Gordon Liddy says " Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6" If you are carrying concealed properly, nobody will ever know that you are carrying. The other objection I have to the permit is that as soon as you get it, the government pretty much knows you have a gun and if the government ever decides to round up guns, guess who they will visit first Followed by those that register their guns. Moral of story. Buy your guns private sale and forgo the permit to carry.
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                          • #14
                            Re: Following the Law, is unLawful

                            Folks, you all have to understand an underlying principle when it comes to government and law enforcement, they operate not by the Constitution, but by what I like to call the "Three P's: Procedure, Protocol, and Policy. Oh sure, we are all taught the Constitution and it's checks and balances back in seventh grade, but what we are NOT taught is the "Second Constitution" the judicial systems adheres to. Which is why in the eyes of the Law, their actions seem insane, however, if you read the same policy books the judges read, attend the same seminars to facilitate the law, everything becomes logical, even predictable, although the results can be disasterous. Just ask any man accused of domestic violence just how well the Law protects their innocence when put up against the courtroom's policies. Don't take my word, just ask a man by the name Thomas James Ball of New Hampshire.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Following the Law, is unLawful

                              Originally posted by tailgunner View Post
                              Folks, you all have to understand an underlying principle when it comes to government and law enforcement, they operate not by the Constitution, but by what I like to call the "Three P's: Procedure, Protocol, and Policy. Oh sure, we are all taught the Constitution and it's checks and balances back in seventh grade, but what we are NOT taught is the "Second Constitution" the judicial systems adheres to. Which is why in the eyes of the Law, their actions seem insane, however, if you read the same policy books the judges read, attend the same seminars to facilitate the law, everything becomes logical, even predictable, although the results can be disasterous. Just ask any man accused of domestic violence just how well the Law protects their innocence when put up against the courtroom's policies. Don't take my word, just ask a man by the name Thomas James Ball of New Hampshire.
                              WoW! Thomas James Ball - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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