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  • #16
    Re: Politics

    I have a bit of a problem with the word obstructionism. After Harry Reid locked himself in his office to write what was suppose to be Health Care reform, he emerged with a voluminous document which no one had read. When the Republicans refused to sign it it was called obstructionism. When Obama tried to double down after the first stimulus did not work, the Republicans and some Democrats disagreed it was called obstructionism. What is it called when Harry Reid refuses to even let a budget go to a vote?

    Mark
    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Politics

      What Obama acc0mplished in 3.5 years;

      The Washington Monthly - The Magazine - Obama’s Top 50 Accomplishments


      What Bush accomplished in 8 years;

      http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...t-achievements


      Take these with agrain of salt, they are the first two that i found and probably both biased strongly. I just wanted to point out that in spite of the resistance from Congress, some things have been accomplished in the past ~3.5 years.
      Last edited by Bob D.; 09-03-2012, 01:10 PM.
      "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
      John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Politics

        Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
        What Obama acc0mplished in 3.5 years;

        The Washington Monthly - The Magazine - Obama’s Top 50 Accomplishments


        What Bush accomplished in 8 years;
        There in lies the problem, many see some of those as his failures.

        Mark
        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Politics

          one of the problems is there are many opposing views,

          In theory, the Republicans, believe that people are responsible for there own destine,
          In theory, the Democrats, believe that GOVERNMENT is responsible for all that is good,

          one one side you have a Constitution, that basically says the responsible of the FEDERAL government is:

          To regulate commerce with foreign nations, between the states and with Native American Nations.
          To establish bankruptcy laws and try bankruptcy cases
          To print money and regulate its value
          To fix the standard of weights and measures
          To establish post offices and post roads
          To grant patents and copyrights

          To declare war

          To raise and support armies and a navy, and to call them when needed
          To exercise exclusive jurisdiction over the District of Columbia

          To make all laws necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers
          To make treaties and negotiate with foreign powers

          What are the exclusive powers of the federal government,
          and the Rest was to be left up to the state governments, in the covering of the affairs of people,

          so basically the powers of the FEDERAL government were more to do with out the country and foreign affairs, than to deal with in or to control the population,

          Simply put the federal government has way over stepped it bounds via the powers granted it by the Constitution,
          and if a state wants a socialistic society it should be by the state not the feds, that would be with the confines of the Constitution


          there was some discussion on compromise,

          how does one compromise, on some subjects/issues,
          Declaration of Independence
          We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,
          on one of our main governing documents
          that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life
          so you say that life should be protected, and the declaration of Independence say the same,
          abortion is taking a life or stoping it, some have tried to claim it is not taking a life,
          (all I know is one has kill it to stop it from growing),

          OK now a law comes up, and says it is OK to kill the development of a unborn baby,

          If one believes it is murder, how do you compromise?

          IF one thinks that ever thing should be controlled by the government, and the next person thinks you should have freedom in decisions, as to work, food, housing, education, fun, transportation, how do you compromise,

          when is enough control adequate, and in most instances, given the power by the Constitution, it is not even theres to grant or to even make a decision on,

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          and when blame goes to the president, (I am sure they all have enough to take responsibility for), but as stated the congress is not all ways cooperative, a lot of the problems that accrued in the last few years was do to changes made by Messrs Frank and Dodd , and this was during the Clinton administration, many of the policies that they set up set the system up for failure, Bush warned a number of times it was in danger, but fell on deft ears in congress, Truth and Common Sense

          the simple truth is the system is nearly to broke to fix, how ever you want the out come to be,

          you have to many doing there own things to line the pockets of then and there friends,

          the federal government is to powerful, (at least if one thinks the Constitution is the document to follow)

          I guess if you really believe in some thing how does one compromise,

          the problem is incremental-ism is fine for a person who thinks a socialistic type of government is the way to go, as each little step that is taken or got, is one step closer to the end game,
          but for the person who think person responsibility is the way to go, and limited government, how does one compromise any more,


          also the way the rules are in congress, on adding amendments, it is one thing to amend the bill if it bill related, but to be able to add some thing that is totally unrelated on to the bill just to pass it is not right, each item should stand on its own, IMO,

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Currently all the Tax code is a system of punishment and reward, If we like what your doing we will give you a Tax break, and if we do not we tax you in to bankruptcy,

          If we want a fair income tax it should be a straight across the board, tax, of a given percentage, the guy who make one dollar pays the same percentage as the one who makes millions, plan and simple,

          How is it fair that some one who does little not pay any tax? and place the burden on the worker?

          why is there an inheritance tax? or even capital gains tax? If you think these taxes are fair, then what is the correct percentage they should be?
          Last edited by BHD; 09-03-2012, 01:50 PM.
          Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
          attributed to Samuel Johnson
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Politics

            CWS, I'm not giving a pass to any of the past Presidents, or President Obama. In my opinion the mess we are in is the result of many players, and things will not get better if you defend any of them. The capitalists were fine shipping out revenue paying businesses and jobs, legislators on both sides did nothing! Wars that could not be paid for were waged by both parties and both added to the debt. I think they are too similar, and too similar with failed results. No one here wants to address my thoughts that we cannot afford the wars, the entitlements (including healthcare for all), or the failed ideas of this President or his predessors. Keep your head buried deep in the sand because where we are and where we are headed is nothing that makes me feel good. We need energy relief NOW!!! we don't have time or the economy to realize some grand vision of alternative energy. The spill in the gulf was bad, but what's worse is our dwindling economy and the exploration by others. Explain how we have the time and resources to pay down the growing debt, pay for the entitlements, develop the non existant alternative energies, and vehicles they run?

            I have not switched course, I am still on course to a balanced budget free from foreign debt. I am still on course to affordable fuel, food, and everything else that makes for the pursuit of happiness. I still want my country to support those who are willing to fight for democracy
            ( big disappointment when President OBama left those protestors in Iran to hang in the wind!) I am still on course to have my fellow Americans working and paying taxes, not unemployed, losing their homes, or living a life of having children I must support through my taxes!
            The country is off course and both democrats and republicans were at the helm.

            I made no friends here when I did not support President Bush and the republicans. I do not expect to be popular now with those who think President Obama will do in the next four years what he failed to do in the last four. Either way, regardless of the result I doubt any of those things I mentioned will change for the good. Frank

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Politics

              for some reason the term capitalism, has been attempted to be defined as a negative word as of late,
              below is the definition for the term,

              This is what makes it possible for YOU and I to own land, a house, a car or truck or both, go to a school of our choice, to go to a job of our choosing, and so on, it is what gives us much of our freedom,

              Capitalism

              cap·i·tal·ism   /ˈkæpɪtlˌɪzəm/ Show Spelled[kap-i-tl-iz-uhm] Show IPA
              noun
              an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, especially as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth. Capitalism | Define Capitalism at Dictionary.com
              ~~~~~~~~~~~~

              Word Story
              It is easy to forget that capitalism was coined not so long ago, in the mid-19th century, when the Industrial Revolution was in full swing, and individual entrepreneurs were creating new industries and amassing wealth. Terms for the other two major competing economic systems of the past two centuries— socialism and communism—were also coined around the same time.
              any system can be abused, but tell me how any other economic system is better?
              I do not see Cuba as an economic power house where it population is free to own and prosper and travel, It still amazes me with all of our nations faults most of the worlds population wants to come here yet. that should tell us some thing.
              Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
              attributed to Samuel Johnson
              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Politics

                Originally posted by BHD View Post
                for some reason the term capitalism, has been attempted to be defined as a negative word as of late,
                below is the definition for the term,

                This is what makes it possible for YOU and I to own land, a house, a car or truck or both, go to a school of our choice, to go to a job of our choosing, and so on, it is what gives us much of our freedom,

                Capitalism



                any system can be abused, but tell me how any other economic system is better?
                I do not see Cuba as an economic power house where it population is free to own and prosper and travel, It still amazes me with all of our nations faults most of the worlds population wants to come here yet. that should tell us some thing.
                I appreciate the definition and agree that in essence ours is the best economic system. I have posted many times that it is my belief capitalism has evolved from a economic system that not only enriched the private ,and corporations but those who worked for them, and purchased their goods. Once the American capitalists moved their American based businesses out of our country to avoid property taxes, higher wages, and government oversight which benefitted many communities, and jobs which benefitted American consumers, the word "capitalist" took on a negative definition.
                I don't want to say the system has been abused, but rather shifted in the example I gave to where we are exchanging wealth at a loss to Americans and a gain to communists and socialists. We can't do that and still feel capitalism fits that definition. I believed for years that communism had to be crushed to preserve democracy. Stop enriching communism, and socialism, bring back the jobs even if capitalist profits are less. Preserve our democracy and economy! Frank
                Last edited by Frankiarmz; 09-03-2012, 06:27 PM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Politics

                  I think the election will be very close. I can't pick a winner.

                  I think it will come down to which side does a better job of getting the vote out. I don't think many people are ambivalent; I think most know who they are for, though they may not feel very strongly for either of the options presented.

                  Many, I think, are getting more and more frustrated with the two party system where, even if one 'side' were to win a super-majority in both house and senate, they would just fall to squabbling amongst themselves, like dogs fighting over a carcass.
                  This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Politics

                    Now don`t you all feel better getting politics off your chests and you were all well behaved Mark will be happy

                    Tony

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Politics

                      Thanks Tony. I think we answered all the questions and actually fixed all the problems. Everything should be fine going forward.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Politics

                        Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                        Thanks Tony. I think we answered all the questions and actually fixed all the problems. Everything should be fine going forward.
                        Or depending on who's elected, maybe even "backward".

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Politics

                          Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
                          Or depending on who's elected, maybe even "backward".
                          CWS, the debt is about to hit 16 trillion, I don't consider that forward motion to a better economy.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Politics

                            Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                            CWS, the debt is about to hit 16 trillion, I don't consider that forward motion to a better economy.
                            Amen Frank!!
                            26+6=1

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Politics

                              Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                              CWS, the debt is about to hit 16 trillion, I don't consider that forward motion to a better economy.
                              To late, already there, it hit 16 earlier today... It's bullsquat... I'm starting to wonder if this tailspin is recoverable...

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Politics

                                Originally posted by Alphacowboy View Post
                                To late, already there, it hit 16 earlier today... It's bullsquat... I'm starting to wonder if this tailspin is recoverable...
                                That is my biggest fear! I listened to a few minutes of the President's wife speaking, and everything she was saying was very true of a strong America where opportunity for all, and support for those truly in need existed. That America does not coexist with our debt and failed economy. Show me how that debt stops rising, and how we pay for the healthcare, and entitlements while tens of millions are unemployed?
                                I don't see the President, and democrats gaining the kind of ground necessary, and while I don't think Romney and the republicans will do much better they are our only hope. If the tailspin is not recoverable, then what? How does it all fall apart as jobs are not brought back, entitlements increase and all the rest just break the camel's back?

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