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Dealing with a Bully

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  • #46
    Re: Dealing with a Bully

    Originally posted by urch55 View Post
    blue,
    That's what I am saying. Terrorist don't make things right. If anything they do all the wrong things..
    I would be curious on how many governments support terrorist in one way or another. I suppose some would even claim the US supports them by supplying weapons etc. to the rebels. I don't know too much on that but, I have heard others say it...

    As far as the so called movie no I have not watched it and don't plan to.. If anybody calls themselves a
    "Christian" and for no other reason other to "mock" one's belief, thier actions tells me they are no Christian. because a true Christian does not act that way.. If this man wanted to evangelize the muslim people there is better respectful ways on doing so...He just drove them away farther so, he defeated his purpose that's if it was indeed his purpose. (But I have my doubts)..
    My statement is based on what Jesus said,"you will know them by thier fruits".

    I have seen and heard of people mocking My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Does it make me angry yes it does. Does it make me want to kill people NO. What they do to mock and blaspheme God,Jesus and the Holy Spirit is between them and God. I would not want to be in thier shoes that's for sure. If they blaspheme God or Jesus there is forgiveness for that, if asked for but, there is no forgiveness for blaspheming the Holy Spirit..(As stated in the bible). I really don't know how to decipher that any farther to apply it. That's why I cringe at what others say because I don't know if they ever crossed that line, and I am not going to judge them. I will let the word of God do that. I have to judge myself so I don't get out of line, and when I do, I know God forgives me and I try not to do it again..
    Thank God for Grace and Mercy because I don't know where I would be with it..
    Yes Urch as I said in my first post on this thread the middle east issues are very complex. You do get terrorist organizations and govts that directly or indirectly supports terrorism. W also do our part in supporting groups or regimes that are beneficial to use when it suits us. For example Saddam Hussein was a good guy while he was fighting Iran since Iran then were the bad guys. We were quite happy to arm him at the time even though he was doing nasty things to his own people. However, that was conveniently ignored. You can see why people there may have been outraged at us.

    Of course we supported the rebels in Afghanistan when Russia invaded – quite easy to see why. I don’t think we were really thinking of those rebels.

    There are so many factors at play here – obviously one of the underlying long term issues is a solution to the Palestinian issue. I don’t claim to know all there is to know about all this complex politics but regardless there is a lot more to it than the recent demonstrations or buring Qurans as has been suggested.

    As far as religion – I think what you said proves my point. You say the guy who made the movie cannot be a true Christian. In the same way Muslims who do not believe in violence do claim that those who do these violent acts and killings are not true Muslims. Yet we are happy to lump all of “them” into one big lump and then stereotype as we see fit.

    Have you done much travelling overseas – maybe met with some of these people to see what they are like?

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Dealing with a Bully

      I think you guys are doing well here and the thread has some thoughtful and insightful commentary. You are all trying to make sense of the senseless. trying to apply logic to a subject that is most illogical. Your thoughts and words have been echoed by many others in the past. No solution, no peace has come of thousands of years of insight. Man is not yet ready to take the next step in his evolution. Our politics are all about greed and power. There is no deep caring for man and society. Our religions have been twisted to fit the desires of man and our societies have been perverted by corruption and greed. We are a very long way from peace and prosperity. I think Spock said it best " The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one "

      Think of the things that western society hold that mark success. New cars, Iphones, gigantic flat screen TV's, snowmobiles, four wheelers, boats and personal water craft. a beach house or camp or any property, a big house with nice furniture and appliances, a big green lawn and a paved driveway, computers and tablets, expensive clothes, hundred and fifty dollar pair of sneakers, two thousand dollar leather shoes, 10,000 dollar watches and diamonds and gold and silver and a big retirement and piles of money in the bank. Now think of what Muslims hold as a mark of their success.

      Of all the things I have ever accomplished in almost 60 years and all the crap I have accumulated, got rid of and got back again the most successful thing I have ever done is to educate children. Children are the future. Children are sponges. They soak in everything around them both good and bad. Their "success" lies in our hands. Be very careful of what you are teaching them.
      Last edited by NHMaster3015; 09-29-2012, 07:51 AM.
      sigpic

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Dealing with a Bully

        NHM, I'm getting to like you better every day!!

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Dealing with a Bully

          Originally posted by Pipestone Kid View Post
          NHM, I'm getting to like you better every day!!
          He infuriates you one day and grows on you the next

          Tony

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Dealing with a Bully

            Originally posted by blue_can View Post

            There are so many factors at play here – obviously one of the underlying long term issues is a solution to the Palestinian issue. I don’t claim to know all there is to know about all this complex politics but regardless there is a lot more to it than the recent demonstrations or buring Qurans as has been suggested.



            As far as religion – I think what you said proves my point. You say the guy who made the movie cannot be a true Christian. In the same way Muslims who do not believe in violence do claim that those who do these violent acts and killings are not true Muslims. Yet we are happy to lump all of “them” into one big lump and then stereotype as we see fit.

            Have you done much travelling overseas – maybe met with some of these people to see what they are like?
            Blue,
            Yes the land issues over there in Israel started about 5000 years ago, and there won't be no "solution" until the Lord returns..

            I know all about "stereotyping" I hear it, see it, feel it, all the time on just how people feel towards Christians. Just look at the comments left on social sites, news sites and even on this thread. I just forgive thier ignorance otherwise, I will be no better that those that cut peoples heads off..

            On my website I let people know my beliefs on the "about us" page. This lets them know they will get honest work and opinions because I have an higher authority to answer to. And if this offends them because they believe a different religion or, they don't belive in any god or don't know if there is one etc. Then they don't have to call me, plain and simple as that. I will not compromise my beliefs for money or any other reason..

            And no never been over to the middle east but, I have worked with and for muslims just like I have with the atheist, Jews, Christians, Blacks, Hindus, gays, lesbians, etc. And you know what?? They all get a fair shake from me..
            I hope this answers the questions you asked....

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Dealing with a Bully

              Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
              I think you guys are doing well here and the thread has some thoughtful and insightful commentary. You are all trying to make sense of the senseless. trying to apply logic to a subject that is most illogical. Your thoughts and words have been echoed by many others in the past. No solution, no peace has come of thousands of years of insight. Man is not yet ready to take the next step in his evolution. Our politics are all about greed and power. There is no deep caring for man and society. Our religions have been twisted to fit the desires of man and our societies have been perverted by corruption and greed. We are a very long way from peace and prosperity. I think Spock said it best " The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one "

              Think of the things that western society hold that mark success. New cars, Iphones, gigantic flat screen TV's, snowmobiles, four wheelers, boats and personal water craft. a beach house or camp or any property, a big house with nice furniture and appliances, a big green lawn and a paved driveway, computers and tablets, expensive clothes, hundred and fifty dollar pair of sneakers, two thousand dollar leather shoes, 10,000 dollar watches and diamonds and gold and silver and a big retirement and piles of money in the bank. Now think of what Muslims hold as a mark of their success.

              Of all the things I have ever accomplished in almost 60 years and all the crap I have accumulated, got rid of and got back again the most successful thing I have ever done is to educate children. Children are the future. Children are sponges. They soak in everything around them both good and bad. Their "success" lies in our hands. Be very careful of what you are teaching them.
              Great post and I mostly agree. You did leave out trophy wives What you said about children could not be more true, important, and evident. Teachers have come under fire for "not caring" because they have the nerve to try and earn a decent living. Unfit parents constantly get a pass for not providing structure, discipline, and examples of good behavior. There are many generous, kindheated people but we hear too little of them compared to the horror stories, they take a back seat to the bad people who crowd the headlines. Growing up I was aware of unrest outside of our country due to religious and political differences, but where I lived, Catholics and Jews got along fine. There were very few mosques, and the muslim religion was not well known. I don't want to spread hate to children or adults. I want the same kind of peaceful coexistence I knew, but that does not seem in keeping with sharia law. I don't want to be the fanatic crying for blood, I want to be informed.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Dealing with a Bully

                I've pretty much stayed out of this little argument, and will do so now, with only adding this opinion:

                NHM: I wholeheartedly agree with your last post. In my humble opinion, too much of this country and perhaps the industrialized world has diminished to a "what's in it for me" lust of selfish wastefulness. Our society, and it's government and most of it's industry is framed on OVER consumerism and waste where only a few contribute and both people on the top and on the bottom have learned how easy it is to take.

                I'm not a "church-going" Christian... I say my nightly prayers, I'm thankful to God for what I have, and yet I dislike God to the points of his neglect and that there are too many among us that seemingly never pay for their contempts, their greed, or their disproportionate "living" over others. There's too much crime, too much pestilance, to many suffering, and far to many hungry and dying to believe that my God would really let this happen. God perhaps only deals with us in our passing, in which case one might want to hedge their bet... but then if that is so, should a "Godly" life be only for the benefit of a very few, while the rest of us cry "Why have you foresaken me?" Sadly, I know too many priviledged out there who have come to know that their greed, their taking, and their superiority over the rest of us, is simple-mindedly opined that God loves them best and that it is their God that has given them their privilege over others because they are "the chosen". To them, it is their right, under God, that they are allowed to take.

                For me, well I've spent time in church, spent time where the rote of Catholism is easily remembered and nobody seems to understnd or reflect. I've listened as the priests who have talked down about "Jews". I've spent time with my family heritage of Protestents of various sects, where bible study is important and prayer is togetherness, and yet all too often the message is one of being special, being priviledged, being one who deserves the riches that God may grant me if I sow the right seeds.

                But my God tells me that I do not need a Church or a crowd, any more than I need to shout or cry or fawn my beliefs on others. My God teaches me that I must be kind, I must work, I must create, and above all I must understand, forgive, and help those who cannot help themselves. My "Christianity" tells me that I must "do unto others".

                Is it so hard to understand that sharing is the fabric of our existance. Must we have "riches" beyond reasonable living, and must our "living" be such that extremes mark us as being successful and that success itself is a competition of greed? Most important to me is, doesn't a "Chistian" who is self-righteous in their belief and in so being condemns others who are percieved to be less, sort of misunderstanding the whole concept of Christian belief?

                This warped sense of Islam is disturbing, we ALL have our extemists! Probably every religion has a good share of nuts, crazies if you will, who think that the oly way to heaven is their way. They will condemn and "stone" at any time and in any modern way those who are perceived as infidels to thier belief. How is it that in our time, we are so little educated that we cannot see that? This over Godliness has been going on since mankind first stood up on two legs and yet it would appear that our brains, our sense of reason, and our lack of ability to put ourselves "in another man's shoes" has progressed in all this time.

                It is right that NHMaster has stated that "Man is not yet ready to take the next step in his evolution."

                CWS

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Dealing with a Bully

                  Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
                  I've pretty much stayed out of this little argument, and will do so now, with only adding this opinion:

                  NHM: I wholeheartedly agree with your last post. In my humble opinion, too much of this country and perhaps the industrialized world has diminished to a "what's in it for me" lust of selfish wastefulness. Our society, and it's government and most of it's industry is framed on OVER consumerism and waste where only a few contribute and both people on the top and on the bottom have learned how easy it is to take.

                  I'm not a "church-going" Christian... I say my nightly prayers, I'm thankful to God for what I have, and yet I dislike God to the points of his neglect and that there are too many among us that seemingly never pay for their contempts, their greed, or their disproportionate "living" over others. There's too much crime, too much pestilance, to many suffering, and far to many hungry and dying to believe that my God would really let this happen. God perhaps only deals with us in our passing, in which case one might want to hedge their bet... but then if that is so, should a "Godly" life be only for the benefit of a very few, while the rest of us cry "Why have you foresaken me?" Sadly, I know too many priviledged out there who have come to know that their greed, their taking, and their superiority over the rest of us, is simple-mindedly opined that God loves them best and that it is their God that has given them their privilege over others because they are "the chosen". To them, it is their right, under God, that they are allowed to take.

                  For me, well I've spent time in church, spent time where the rote of Catholism is easily remembered and nobody seems to understnd or reflect. I've listened as the priests who have talked down about "Jews". I've spent time with my family heritage of Protestents of various sects, where bible study is important and prayer is togetherness, and yet all too often the message is one of being special, being priviledged, being one who deserves the riches that God may grant me if I sow the right seeds.

                  But my God tells me that I do not need a Church or a crowd, any more than I need to shout or cry or fawn my beliefs on others. My God teaches me that I must be kind, I must work, I must create, and above all I must understand, forgive, and help those who cannot help themselves. My "Christianity" tells me that I must "do unto others".

                  Is it so hard to understand that sharing is the fabric of our existance. Must we have "riches" beyond reasonable living, and must our "living" be such that extremes mark us as being successful and that success itself is a competition of greed? Most important to me is, doesn't a "Chistian" who is self-righteous in their belief and in so being condemns others who are percieved to be less, sort of misunderstanding the whole concept of Christian belief?

                  This warped sense of Islam is disturbing, we ALL have our extemists! Probably every religion has a good share of nuts, crazies if you will, who think that the oly way to heaven is their way. They will condemn and "stone" at any time and in any modern way those who are perceived as infidels to thier belief. How is it that in our time, we are so little educated that we cannot see that? This over Godliness has been going on since mankind first stood up on two legs and yet it would appear that our brains, our sense of reason, and our lack of ability to put ourselves "in another man's shoes" has progressed in all this time.

                  It is right that NHMaster has stated that "Man is not yet ready to take the next step in his evolution."

                  CWS
                  CWS, If I am mistaken or have misunderstood sharia law, the words and deeds of not only the radical jihdists, but the masses of those who hate our country, then I apologize. The evolution of mankind to live in peace is a joint venture involving widespread cooperation. Perhaps we have forced our will and ways too far, or perhaps those who see things differently are bent on eliminating those of us who do not share their views? I don't want to walk in the shoes of a man who beats his wife, stones to death the accused, disfigures the offensive, and mutilates the sexuality of young women. I'll stay open minded to all opinions, but I'll keep my shoes, thank you.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Dealing with a Bully

                    The only thing I find to be strange or interesting is so many think this is something new.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Dealing with a Bully

                      " I don't want to walk in the shoes of a man who beats his wife, stones to death the accused, disfigures the offensive, and mutilates the sexuality of young women. I'll stay open minded to all opinions, but I'll keep my shoes, thank you."

                      Frankie, In all seriousness, take a close look around and be careful where you step.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Dealing with a Bully

                        Originally posted by Pipestone Kid View Post
                        " I don't want to walk in the shoes of a man who beats his wife, stones to death the accused, disfigures the offensive, and mutilates the sexuality of young women. I'll stay open minded to all opinions, but I'll keep my shoes, thank you."

                        Frankie, In all seriousness, take a close look around and be careful where you step.
                        Kid, our society and laws are far from perfect but they are far beyond anything I am aware of from sharia. We don't stone to death nor beat our women publically, certainly not without serious repercussions. Not aware of the sexual mutilation of girls here, although human trafficking, incest and rape does occur all too frequently. Can you seriously compare the religious and societal affronts I mentioned to the laws of our land, and our overall behavior? I have never seen, nor would I stand by and allow a man to beat a woman! You either agree with that or you share in the beliefs of sharia? Kid, you really don't know where you step?

                        I just had to add that years ago while driving my telephone construction rig, my partner and I witnessed a man pull a woman into a doorway. We exited the truck grabbed some long metal bolts and ran into the building. Nothing serious happened and the woman was alright. A few years later while driving my truck I saw a irish setter getting torn apart by two pitbulls. I crossed four lanes of traffic and drove onto the sidewalk, aiming at the owner of the pitbulls! He called them off and got out of there fast. We have more compassion and laws to protect animals than these people have for their women. Once again I probably sound unreasonable, and should respect their culture. Call me unevolved.
                        Last edited by Frankiarmz; 09-29-2012, 06:31 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Dealing with a Bully

                          Franki,

                          It is my understanding that the exteme definitions of "Sharia Law" ( Sharia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) are not practiced by most Islamists; but "Sharia", in it's elements of guidance are practiced, just like our civilization practices elements of "christianity" taken from the more moderate selections from our Bible and the Ten Commandments. Like any modern, well educated people, the Islamic faith follows "Sharia" as a path that God has layed before them. In it's exteme interpretations it definitely has it's evils... but so does the Bible! It's just that we have come to overlook that our women often have to gather "firewood" on Sundays, and the local towns folk pretty much has tired of stoning them. (I do understand that there are many who want to bring that practice back though, so please look over your shoulder the next time you drag the lawn mower out or decide to look over the car on Sunday! )

                          The point is that we live in a world where "modern" and "ancient" beliefs have clashed. Here in America, our women do pretty much what they like. Some of US men don't like it and a lot of us actually do, do something about it. Abuse is everywhere you want to look... but you won't see it unless you actually do look and are willing to recognize it for what it is.

                          Now, if you consider that "clash" in our own yards, homes, and factories, then what could you possibly think would happen when a father or husband of some ancient, un-educated to the advantages of a "civilized" world, might feel ? That is not saying their perspective is right, but it is what they have always known and it is what their "beliefs" tell them. There is not a lot of men in this world who are open-minded enough to see that they are NOT the masters of thier households, thier incomes, their wives, their children, the family dog, or much of anything else. IT is a culture clash, even in our most civilized western thoughts. Certainly NOT to the extreme for most of us; but, it IS there nonetheless.

                          And I agree with your idea of keeping your own shoes; but the point is, you don't need to practice an extreme to understand it... you only have to know where that extremist view might be founded. A person in another land does not always view the world as you and I might. They may not want the freedoms or even understand them, as you and I might. In that ancient-minded land, thier women, thier daughters and sons may not be of anyone's concerns but their own. That is how it is now and that is how it has been for hundreds, if not thousands of years. And, if that land should be suddenly invaded by a more modern life, what are we to think of it and worse, should we be doing anything to disturb that.... is it in fact, as they used to say on Star Trek, against the "prime directive" to NOT interfere in any way, shape, or form. And with that same thought, what if we were suddenly invaded by a culture from another world, one of a much higher technological order... would we appreciate their judgements? Or, would we fight with everything that we have?

                          "Terrorism" is sometimes the only way to fight a superior force. It is also too often perceived as the only true way for a minority to subjugate a seniority. Terrorism is the most difficult of military challenges, and is much harder to defend against than even nuclear war. The minority has nothing whatsoever to loose, and worse... if they are influenced by a religious belief, they have everything to gain. (And is our "for God and Country" really any different?)

                          From our point of view, who do you attack? Do you attack the innocent who simply try to live from day to day as best they can, or do you go after the government which by itself, may well be trying to balance the extremist elements. Often, it is only the financial aid that our side of the world provides, that keeps that entire country from sliding into the muddiness of extremism. And, if we should "drop the bomb"... does that now in fact purify all that the extremists believe and teach about us?

                          This "film" that has caused so much anger, is a real problem. Not so much in that it speaks against a religion, but in that those who follow that religion have no comprehension that anyone, any where could be "free" to do such a thing. In THEIR world, the government may control everything. That it especially true when the governing is by a religious order. You don't make your bread, much less slice it the way you want, without the "government" (or Religious governance) saying it is okay. So, when they see something like this film attacking thier GOD, then there is little to NO comprehension how this could ever possibly happen without the "government" saying that it is okay! That is THIER WORLD, and it is all they know... IT cannot happen without government support and approval. So if the film comes from America, then American is to be faulted, who else could possibly be to blame?

                          Our Democracy of course is far more open and we get to say, do, buy, and at times carry out the most heinous acts all on our own, individually. That is pretty tough for someone in an ancient tribal/religous culture to grasp. How can it be that this happens, where everything is impossible without the government!!!

                          Education is the only way to fight prejudice and the resulting terrorism. How can we expect it to succeed in someplace like Afganistan, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria, or the hundred other places in the world... when, we really haven't been all that successful here in our own country?

                          CWS
                          Last edited by CWSmith; 09-29-2012, 06:34 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Dealing with a Bully

                            CWS. I understand the mindset you describe, and the religious, and cultural teachings that perpetuate it. I believe the same access to media that insults and infuriates these people to look for blood can be used to educate, and inform them of alternative cultures, and beliefs. President Obama should have denounced the offending video on the one hand, but offered several examples of how it is very common place in a free society. Blacks are forced to peacefully allow racist parades in our "Land of the Free" country, and suffer countless racist insults on almost every Internet site open to comments. Jews must listen to the iranian president call for their extinction. We hosted that little scumbag and listened as he said homosexuality did not exist in his country. My point is that regardless of the religion, culture, and history that leads these people to think they are justified in their jihad, it is our job to educate them to the "evolution" beyond their ancient beliefs. Help them to be equal, peaceful members of the global community, or I think we agree on the education part, what happens after that is another matter. What is your plan B, or do you not have one? Frank

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Dealing with a Bully

                              All I know is as long as we support Israel we will be hated period, if we stopped I could not say if it would get better but it couldn't get worse.
                              Seattle Drain Service

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Dealing with a Bully

                                Originally posted by Cuda View Post
                                All I know is as long as we support Israel we will be hated period, if we stopped I could not say if it would get better but it couldn't get worse.
                                So you're saying it might be a good idea to stop supporting Israel and any other democracy that the arab world hates in the hopes they may hate us less? Why not just give iran a few nukes and see if they stop hating us and start really liking us? I disagree with your reasoning, even if it worked.

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