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  • #16
    Re: The Presidential Election

    Originally posted by Pipestone Kid View Post
    "we can't afford healthcare or higher education for all. " Yep, just let them die.......... Oh, you have money? Well lets fix you up!!
    I'm not real sure how to "fix" healthcare to be quite honest. I'm trying to learn as much as I can about the coming wave of what the Obama-Care bill/law will mean for the private sector in costs vs. taxes & how it will all play out. I do know for a fact that some large companies have already begun cutting hours and spreading the work so that everyone will be legally "part-time employees". And the reason is this bill/law. I'm not speculating that. I read the memo from a family member that's a manager in a larger corporation.

    Many businesses will follow suit with various strategies to stay competitive.

    Will this be good for the nation? I can't really predict the future but am inclined to say no.

    The U.S. spends MORE than any other country in the world on "education" per child. Meanwhile, other countries have been proven to produce a better "product" (educated and skilled person) than the U.S. Not one red cent more needs to be spent. Any politician, parent, or teacher (yeah, I said it) that tells you anything to the contrary is uninformed or a liar.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: The Presidential Election

      One family has paid tax on their income and is transfering some of the remainder to their children. The other is sheltering taxable gains and taking that income in another, non-taxable manner. You just choose not to see the difference because you hate Obama. It's not possible to have a rational discussion. I don't know why I try.

      And, with regard to "While you did post this, my comment is really not directed at you Ace," sure, obviously not; got to have come up because of all the other posts in the thread about tax loopholes, rofl. "If anyone has an issue with a person legally using the tax code to decrease what taxes may be owed...then they are nothing more than an envious idiot trying to tear someone else down to make themselves feel better."

      I don't have a problem with using what is there. I have a problem with pretending to support the middle class while pushing ever more of the tax burden onto wage earners. This while reducing taxes, with the stated goal of eliminating them altogether, on those who can take their massive incomes in the form of unearned income. All while essentially calling nearly half the nation deadbeats because they have no federal income tax liability on their meager incomes when you yourself pay no taxes on the tens of millions you make each year.

      I find it astonishing that the people here, all of whom earn their pay from their own work, support a party whose tax policy favors taxing only earned income, twice, and not taxing unearned income at all.

      I just can't understand why. I've though it was because of the social and religious issue button pushing, but I'm not sure anymore. In fact I don't care anymore. It's pointless. Y'all are (mostly) too busy being angry to talk to about it.

      Last thing I will ever post on any political topic.

      Enjoy.
      This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: The Presidential Election

        Looking in from down under I cannot understand your logic its like everyone is for themselves in the US and kick the poor when their down we have medicare here in Aus where a percentage is taken out of our taxable income each year and then given the incentive to take out private health insurance after the age of thirty or be penalised for every year you don`t but medicare is a safe guard which I would think in a so called civilization was the right of everyone of its citizens.

        The well healed seem to care more about other countries and not your own where in the hell do you think the vast amount of that 16 trillion dollar has gone to to countries that couldn`t give a stuff about you and didn`t want you there in the first place what is wrong with the US is the people in charge the ones with the money and real power don`t give a dam what their citizens want

        I remember when medicare was brought in in Australia and we thought the same as you do that the world was going to fall in but after nearly forty years if the government tried to get rid of it there would be a revolution here as we know if one of us falls on hard times then we will be looked after and this is why we form civilizations where we are strong together than apart and in forty years you will have the same view no matter who you are

        Tony
        Last edited by AFM; 11-08-2012, 11:02 PM.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: The Presidential Election

          I personally am not angry or a blind hater. And no, my comment was not really meant as a direct shot at you, it IS meant to be a direct shot or opposition to the idea that you were sharing in that link.

          I don't align with those that are quick to point out & disagree with how anyone decreases or defers taxes. I can see your point as to someone in a government position making decisions on tax law to benefit them and disagreeing with that. Probably what they've all done.

          However, they are not necessarily the only one that is eligible for these deductions, decreases, or deferrals.

          What I see more than anything is people often saying something like "This guy made a lot of money. He paid lower taxes than you. You should dislike him no matter what because of this." I saw a commercial over and over like this.

          WTH? Really WTH? When did we become a country of people trying to tear another person down for succeeding? I've seen that locally as well. Different business men & women that have been very successful with a lot of people saying negative things about them and wanting to basically hate on their success because it makes them feel better about whatever their shortcomings may be.

          Ace, if you do well for yourself, pay less taxes than me, I have zero problem with that. I champion your effort.

          Just might want to learn some things from you.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: The Presidential Election

            " I have a problem with pretending to support the middle class while pushing ever more of the tax burden onto wage earners."
            Quote, AceSewer

            Ace, I've spoken out against both parties and while you might be right, what about obamacare being labeled a tax by the supreme court?
            Speaking of burdens on the middle class, I think inflation, skyrocketing gas and fuel oi prices are right up there. My decision to vote for Romney was out of pure desperation and frustration. The result of voting against Romney and a possible tax hike is a probable second term of worsening economy, more debt and another credit downgrade. I hope I'm wrong but I think we will lose more in this scenario.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: The Presidential Election

              Originally posted by AFM View Post
              Looking in from down under I cannot understand your logic its like everyone is for themselves in the US and kick the poor when their down we have medicare here in Aus where a percentage is tken out of our taxable income each year and then if you have and then given the incentive to take out private health insurance after the age of thirty or be penalised for every year you don`t butout medicare is a saft guard which I would think in a so called civilization was the right of everyone of its citizens.

              The well healed seem to care more about other countries and not your own where in the hell do you think the vast amount of that 16 trillion dollar has gone to to countries that couldn`t give a stuff about you and didn`t want you there in the first place what is wrong with the US is the people in charge the ones with the money and real power don`t give a dam what their citizens want

              I remember when medicare was brought in in Australia and we thought the same as you do that the world was going to fall in but after nearly forty years if the government tried to get rid of it there would be a revolution here as we know if one of us falls on hard times then we will be looked after and this is why we form civilizations where we are strong together than apart and in forty years you will have the same view no matter who you are

              Tony
              Tony, what was your national debt when the plan was adopted? Personally I don't put other countries ahead of the USA. I don't kick the poor to the curb either, but we are in trouble. The money is not there, it is not there by over sixteen trillion dollars! If we did not fight all these wars, support a massive illegal population, deal with widespread fraud and all the other issues draining our economy the healthcare issue would not be such a sore spot with those of us still paying taxes and facing rising taxes and inflation.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: The Presidential Election

                Originally posted by AFM View Post
                Looking in from down under I cannot understand your logic its like everyone is for themselves in the US and kick the poor when their down we have medicare here in Aus where a percentage is tken out of our taxable income each year and then if you have and then given the incentive to take out private health insurance after the age of thirty or be penalised for every year you don`t butout medicare is a saft guard which I would think in a so called civilization was the right of everyone of its citizens.

                The well healed seem to care more about other countries and not your own where in the hell do you think the vast amount of that 16 trillion dollar has gone to to countries that couldn`t give a stuff about you and didn`t want you there in the first place what is wrong with the US is the people in charge the ones with the money and real power don`t give a dam what their citizens want

                I remember when medicare was brought in in Australia and we thought the same as you do that the world was going to fall in but after nearly forty years if the government tried to get rid of it there would be a revolution here as we know if one of us falls on hard times then we will be looked after and this is why we form civilizations where we are strong together than apart and in forty years you will have the same view no matter who you are

                Tony
                I don't know if we in the U.S. have a direct comparison with your country or not. Either in law or in practice.

                What many are seeing is an ever increasing attitude by more and more of the population in the U.S. that seems to have the sentiment of "Take care of me."

                It used to be the masses wanted to take care of themselves, help those that couldn't care for themselves get into a position so they could, and those that could not WANTED to get into that position. Now it appears a lot don't want to do better, and won't, as long as others will do for them.

                It is very common, at least here where I am located, to stand behind someone in a grocery store with two baskets filled to the brim and see them "pay" with a government issued card. Really not paying a dime. Week after week. Nothing.

                Then after that is payed for, they pay for beer, liquor, or whatever else not approved on this free lifestyle plan with cash. And go out to a late model SUV that responsible people paying for their own groceries don't drive.

                This trend makes the responsible that speak about it probably seem greedy and just out for themselves.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: The Presidential Election

                  Originally posted by BobsPlumbing View Post
                  I don't know if we in the U.S. have a direct comparison with your country or not. Either in law or in practice.

                  What many are seeing is an ever increasing attitude by more and more of the population in the U.S. that seems to have the sentiment of "Take care of me."

                  It used to be the masses wanted to take care of themselves, help those that couldn't care for themselves get into a position so they could, and those that could not WANTED to get into that position. Now it appears a lot don't want to do better, and won't, as long as others will do for them.

                  It is very common, at least here where I am located, to stand behind someone in a grocery store with two baskets filled to the brim and see them "pay" with a government issued card. Really not paying a dime. Week after week. Nothing.

                  Then after that is payed for, they pay for beer, liquor, or whatever else not approved on this free lifestyle plan with cash. And go out to a late model SUV that responsible people paying for their own groceries don't drive.

                  This trend makes the responsible that speak about it probably seem greedy and just out for themselves.
                  I am afraid this is the price of civilisation when you look back around 200 hundred years when America and Australia were colonised the people were self sufficient and God fearing and were moral but as the years past our morals have changed and governments have made us dependent on them as governments do world wide and our self sufficienty has disappeared and will get worse in the future you might laugh at past civilisations but this is how it starts and how they end I wonder what the Romans were thinking around 250 AD when they had less than a hundred years left when it all came to an end as our will eventually

                  Tony

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: The Presidential Election

                    Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                    Tony, what was your national debt when the plan was adopted? Personally I don't put other countries ahead of the USA. I don't kick the poor to the curb either, but we are in trouble. The money is not there, it is not there by over sixteen trillion dollars! If we did not fight all these wars, support a massive illegal population, deal with widespread fraud and all the other issues draining our economy the healthcare issue would not be such a sore spot with those of us still paying taxes and facing rising taxes and inflation.
                    It was 1972 when medicare was brought in Australia was stuffed unemployment was rising our economy was in the sh+t house and a Prime Minister called Whitlam who`s party had been out of power since 1949 you get the message.
                    Afghanistan and Iraq are wars we should never have got involved in and should have learnt from Veitnam which is vibrant country now even after all the damage we did we should have told the French to get stuffed but they wanted to keep their colonies and didn`t give a stuff about the Veitnamese people who lived there no Frank we have no right being in the middle east the days of conquest are well and truely over

                    Tony

                    Tony

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: The Presidential Election

                      Originally posted by Ace Sewer View Post
                      One family has paid tax on their income and is transfering some of the remainder to their children. The other is sheltering taxable gains and taking that income in another, non-taxable manner. You just choose not to see the difference because you hate Obama. It's not possible to have a rational discussion. I don't know why I try.
                      No see...you posted a link proclaiming Romney takes advantage of the tax code, and all I did was merely do the same thing regarding Obama taking advantage of the same tax code as well. Matter of fact, everyone who is reading this has taken advantage of the tax code one time or another in their life time. You have done it..I have done it...we all have done it.

                      Now that we have that out of the way, your views on "who" is for the middle class is way off base. But you're entitled to your opinions and I respect that. But keep in mind, when your President is done taxing the rich, and figures out he doesn't have enough money for what he needs...who is he going to target next? That's right...the middle class as we are the largest tax base.

                      I'm a business owner like yourself, and the last thing I want to do is give my hard earned money to a Democrat who wants to tax everything under the sun. Democrats are notorious for " tax for this, tax for that, tax for this, tax for that".

                      You sit there and say "Obama is for the middle class" but yet his own flesh and blood "His brother" lives in a freaking hut! Obama wants nothing to do with the guy...but yet he cares about people?

                      For me personally, I hope and pray the Republicans in the house gives Obama everything he wants, and raises taxes through the roof. I can't wait for Obama-care to kick in so businesses are forced to make a choice between bottom dollar or massive layoff's.

                      Common sense says a country is supposed to take care of it's fiscal house first....not give a Progressive far left loon more time to rack up trillions more.

                      But hey...the country has spoken right? Well you wanted him..now you got him and you and everyone else who voted for that clown owns this mess. Let's also stop with it's "George Bushes Fault" Dodd/Frank started this down fall with the Dodd Frank bill under a Democratic controlled congress, but you don't get to hear those things on MSNBC.

                      I have to be honest...and I'm sure there are more in the country, but you're the first business owner I've seen that admitted he voted for Obama. So I hope you like the idea of "Card check" cause the Unions are starting their crap now with that nonsense.

                      We are on our way to being a Socialist Country, when Obama-care kicks in, we will have finally arrived.
                      Last edited by Flux; 11-09-2012, 09:23 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: The Presidential Election

                        I never heard of "card check" until now. The Employee Free Choice Act - the "Card Check" Bill | U.S. Chamber of Commerce
                        I'm a Union guy but this sounds insane! Things have gotten out of hand and perverted. Now is not the time to further hamper business owners. I would rather see Union efforts working with the business sector to encourage growth and stability. I don't like this as a way to strengthen Unions or convince people they are a good idea. What a mess!!! Frank

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: The Presidential Election

                          Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                          I never heard of "card check" until now. The Employee Free Choice Act - the "Card Check" Bill | U.S. Chamber of Commerce
                          I'm a Union guy but this sounds insane! Things have gotten out of hand and perverted. Now is not the time to further hamper business owners. I would rather see Union efforts working with the business sector to encourage growth and stability. I don't like this as a way to strengthen Unions or convince people they are a good idea. What a mess!!! Frank
                          --------------------------------

                          Employee Free Choice Act

                          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                          Jump to: navigation, search
                          The Employee Free Choice Act[1] was a legislative bill that was introduced into both chambers of the U.S. Congress on March 10, 2009.[2] The bill's purpose was to[3]
                          “amend the National Labor Relations Act to establish an efficient system to enable employees to form, join, or assist labor organizations [unions], to provide for mandatory injunctions for unfair labor practices during organizing efforts, and for other purposes.”The bill would have, first, allowed a union to be certified as the official union to bargain with an employer if union officials collect signatures of a majority of workers. The bill would have removed the present right of the employer to demand an additional, separate ballot when more than half of employees have already given their signature supporting the union.[4] Second, the bill would have required employers and unions to enter binding arbitration to produce a collective agreement at latest 120 days after a union is recognized. Third, the bill would have increased penalties on employers who discriminate against workers for union involvement.

                          -----------------------

                          Official Summary

                          This summary was written by the Congressional Research Service, a nonpartisan arm of the Library of Congress. GovTrack did not write and has no control over these summaries.
                          3/1/2007--Passed House amended. Employee Free Choice Act of 2007 - Amends the National Labor Relations Act to require the National Labor Relations Board to certify a bargaining representative without directing an election if a majority of the bargaining unit employees have authorized designation of the representative (card-check) and there is no other individual or labor organization currently certified or recognized as the exclusive representative of any of the employees in the unit. Sets forth special procedural requirements for reaching an initial collective bargaining agreement following certification or recognition. Revises enforcement requirements with respect to unfair labor practices during union organizing drives, particularly a preliminary investigation of an alleged unfair labor practice which may lead to proceedings for injunctive relief. Requires that priority be given to a preliminary investigation of any charge that, while employees were seeking representation by a labor organization, or during the period after a labor organization was recognized as a representative until the first collective bargaining contract is entered into, an employer: (1) discharged or otherwise discriminated against an employee to encourage or discourage membership in the labor organization; (2) threatened to discharge or to otherwise discriminate against an employee in order to interfere with, restrain, or coerce employees in the exercise of guaranteed self-organization or collective bargaining rights; or (3) engaged in any other related unfair labor practice that significantly interferes with, restrains, or coerces employees in the exercise of such guaranteed rights. Adds to remedies for such violations: (1) back pay plus liquidated damages; and (2) additional civil penalties.

                          -------------------
                          I guess it depends on who you ask what the bill was designed to do. The description given on the Wiki page reads differently than that of the USCOC, a group of bussinessmen who oppose the act. I'm not standing on either side of this bill, just pointing out the differences in what you posted and what another site posted. Who do you believe? Better to read the actual text fo the bill to get the true story and spread misinformation.

                          [currently as I write this the LOC web server is OOS so can't retrieve the whole bill for review. it's not scheduled to be back until 11/13/12. see below]

                          Due to equipment maintenance, our websites (including loc.gov, congress.gov, copyright.gov & others) are unavailable. We expect them to be available again Tuesday, Nov. 13 at 9 a.m., Eastern Standard Time.
                          ---------------
                          Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
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                          “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
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                          "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
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                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: The Presidential Election

                            Frank, like Bob said there are many different stories and parts on what this bill will actually do.

                            If it's intended for small businesses in where the employees wish to Unionize, it's going to put that small business out of business. If the small business is forced to Unionize regardless...it's going to hurt small business.

                            There are many small businesses in this country that couldn't possibly handle the money required to Unionize.

                            I've also read in where they wish to abolish "right to work states", but not sure how that would happen.

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