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  • #16
    Re: Darn Twinkie Union

    Originally posted by Flux View Post
    I think this is a classic example of how Unions put businesses out of business. If the teamsters made sacrifices there was no reason for the Bakers union to do the same thing and make a sacrifice. The got what what they deserved in the end! I wonder which business will be next that they destroy.
    Plumbing!

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Darn Twinkie Union


      But what about the owner's liabilities here...
      Sell out to Bimbo and live off the royalties for the popular brand names that you seel with the brick and motar facilities.
      ---------------
      Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
      ---------------
      “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
      ---------
      "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
      ---------
      sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Darn Twinkie Union

        Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
        Plumbing!
        You may get your wish Frank if "card check" passes and "right to work" states are eliminated in the dictators second term.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Darn Twinkie Union

          Originally posted by Flux View Post
          You may get your wish Frank if "card check" passes and "right to work" states are eliminated in the dictators second term.
          Flux, that is not my wish, nor is it my wish that hardworking folks lose their jobs because they can't afford pay cuts and rising inflation. I do however wish you could see that perspective. Those folks can't shift their rising costs onto customers as can small business owners. A bad idea is a bad idea, and wheter it's card check or cutting pay while fuel costs double, I see no difference in the outcome. We should be joining forces to fight the causes of inflation so that folks can afford to work, live and raise a family without constantly trying to offset rising costs including those charged by small business owners dealing with their own financial crisis.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Darn Twinkie Union

            the labor concessions were drawn up by the backrupcy court, and the Hostest company was in a backrupcy reorganization, at the time, and have been in and out of bankrupcy since at least 2004.

            Hostess Bankruptcy Negotiations Could Kill Twinkies
            Created: October 15, 2012

            Hostess Bankruptcy Negotiations Could Kill Twinkies

            This Tuesday, Hostess will appear in bankruptcy court and attempt to reach an agreement with the Teamsters union.

            Hostess is currently in chapter 11 bankruptcy. Depending on the court’s decision, Hostess will either be forced back into negotiations, or be allowed to escape their union contracts.

            If the court rules in favor of Hostess, the Teamsters have vowed to go on strike, which would likely force the company into liquidation. A letter to employees stated that in the event of a strike “All Hostess Brands operations would shut down and liquidation would begin. The 18,500 jobs, plus the health insurance that comes with them, would be lost for good.”

            “Negotiating union contracts in Chapter 11 bankruptcy can be like a playing a game of chicken,” says MN Bankruptcy Attorney, Max Zawojski. “Hostess can exercise the rescission power of bankruptcy to break its contracts, but the union can exercise its power to strike. A general strike at this stage of the reorganization process would likely torpedo Hostess’s chances of recovery, and force it into liquidation. Of course that would mean the end of employment for the union workers, which is why this will come down to who will blink first. In any case, increasing awareness of the health risks of Hostess’s highly processed, high fat products may make the whole issue moot.”

            Related Sources:

            HuffingtonPost.com
            Hostess Brands, Inc Files Restructuring Plan, Hopes To Exit Bankruptcy In Next Few Months

            Hostess Brands, Inc Files Restructuring Plan, Hopes To Exit Bankruptcy In Next Few Months

            Created: October 15, 2012


            Hostess Brands Inc. announced that the company and its five subsidiaries have filed their joint plan of reorganization and related disclosure statement with the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Southern district of New York.

            The disclosure statement includes detailed information regarding labor agreements, the treatment of claims and interests, the company's business plan, and events leading up to and during Hostess' Chapter 11 cases. The plan and disclosure statement remain subject to further modifications and approval by the court.

            "The filing of the plan and disclosure statement is a major milestone for Hostess, our employees, suppliers and customers," said Gregory F. Rayburn, the company's chairman and chief executive officer, in a prepared statement. "The plan sets forth the blueprint for Hostess to emerge from bankruptcy. We will continue to work toward putting the pieces in place for that emergence so that we can thrive again as a robust competitor and continue to serve our loyal customers for years to come."

            "Demand for Hostess products has been very resilient, giving us a solid base to work from," Rayburn said. "With a competitive cost structure and fresh capital at our disposal, we can begin to make the kinds of investments in our business that is essential to our future success."

            Rayburn said Hostess is working to complete its restructuring and exit Chapter 11 in the next few months, provided the plan is confirmed by the court overseeing the company's restructuring.

            "I'd like to thank our employees for their continued hard work and commitment," Rayburn said. "Every single Hostess employee has made sacrifices to preserve jobs and improve the company's financial strength. Upon emergence, our union-represented employees will hold 25 percent equity ownership, a $100 million interest-bearing note and have two seats on the board of directors on critical committees to ensure their voice is heard."

            Hostess filed for Chapter 11 protection on January 11, 2012.
            Unions scramble to protect pensions in Hostess bankruptcy » peoplesworld
            Labor News > Unions scramble to protect pensions in Hostess bankruptcy
            Unions scramble to protect pensions in Hostess bankruptcyPrintEmail to a Friendby: Mark Gruenberg
            January 17 2012
            KENSINGTON, Md. - The Bakery Workers (BCTGM), the Teamsters, and other unions representing Hostess Foods employees scrambled to protect their members as the snack food company filed for bankruptcy on Jan. 11 for the second time this century.

            The 2011 filing, like that of '04, could affect some 5,500 BCTGM workers at Hostess plants nationwide, union President Frank Hurt told Press Associates Union News Service. The Teamsters report that they represent 7,500 Hostess drivers and merchandisers. Several other unions have smaller contingents at Hostess.
            much more of the last story at the link,

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostess_Brands
            WIkipedia has a time line and history on there page,
            Last edited by BHD; 11-16-2012, 04:08 PM.
            Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
            attributed to Samuel Johnson
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Darn Twinkie Union

              Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
              I wonder how those workers felt facing several years of pay cuts, higher prices at the pump and the same inflation the rest of us have to deal with? How many folks can keep their heads above the rising waters as their income is cut and costs go up? I think it reaches a point where bluffs are no longer bluffs on either side. How much income could any of you aford to lose before you say it just makes no sense to stay in business, there is no profit!!! We are seeing our economy failing as a result of fuel prices that are at least twice what some low wage earners can afford and rising inflation. Stop thinking in terms of your personal finances and consider the folks who work jobs at the lower end. They have to commute, pay rent or mortgage, buy food and have many of the same expenses. I don't blame hostess if their business model was failing, and I don't blame workers getting crushed from both ends, I blame the factors that lead to all of this.

              There reaches a point where working longer hours, and second or third minimum wage jobs just don't cut it any more. A point at which truckers can't drive enough hours in a day or haul enough loads to break even. Stop making this about "militant" Union workers and open your eyes to the bigger picture. I wish you continued success in your own businesses, but there unless things change I feel there will come a time when all are hurt by our failing economy. Double the cost of gasoline, heating fuel and cut wages? Not gonna work!
              I wonder if they will feel Dec 26th if they made the right choice. They should have agreed to the pay cut then looked for another job. A job is job. Now instead of a 8% pay cut they have a 100% pay cut.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Darn Twinkie Union

                Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                don't worry, there's always a ding dong to fall back on

                rick.
                Sorry Rick Hostess makes them too

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Darn Twinkie Union

                  Originally posted by MR.FUDD View Post
                  Sorry Rick Hostess makes them too

                  Don't you mean they made them (past tense).
                  ---------------
                  Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
                  ---------------
                  “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
                  ---------
                  "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
                  ---------
                  sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Darn Twinkie Union

                    Originally posted by BadgerDave View Post
                    America without Twinkies is just plain UnAmerican!
                    Yeah, maybe there will be a few less overweight teenage couch potatoes in the world.
                    Lord knows America has more than their share.
                    It might be a good thing if Hostess goes belly up.
                    ---------------
                    Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
                    ---------------
                    “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
                    ---------
                    "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
                    ---------
                    sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Darn Twinkie Union

                      Originally posted by MR.FUDD View Post
                      I wonder if they will feel Dec 26th if they made the right choice. They should have agreed to the pay cut then looked for another job. A job is job. Now instead of a 8% pay cut they have a 100% pay cut.
                      MR.FUDD, you are assuming there are other jobs to come and that those workers can afford to take the pay cut and still make ends meet.
                      What would you suggest a guy do when he can't pay for the gas to make his commute and still pay for food and other essentials? That 8% pay cut on top of gas and heating fuel that has doubled along with inflation across the board is more than a lot of folks can stand. That 100% pay cut "entitles" them to government assistance including food stamps. I still don't think folks are getting the big picture here! The economy is broken and may be beyond repair. Reduce the cost of essential commodities so folks can commute to work and feed their families, not everyone is making enough money to keep up with inflation. Those workers are not greedy, not lazy, just at the end of their rope. How many here could suffer a 8% reduction in income? Probably only those who are real well off, and maybe not them either.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Darn Twinkie Union

                        Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                        MR.FUDD, you are assuming there are other jobs to come and that those workers can afford to take the pay cut and still make ends meet.
                        What would you suggest a guy do when he can't pay for the gas to make his commute and still pay for food and other essentials? That 8% pay cut on top of gas and heating fuel that has doubled along with inflation across the board is more than a lot of folks can stand. That 100% pay cut "entitles" them to government assistance including food stamps. I still don't think folks are getting the big picture here! The economy is broken and may be beyond repair. Reduce the cost of essential commodities so folks can commute to work and feed their families, not everyone is making enough money to keep up with inflation. Those workers are not greedy, not lazy, just at the end of their rope. How many here could suffer a 8% reduction in income? Probably only those who are real well off, and maybe not them either.
                        While your big picture of the economy being broken may be reasonable, you seem to be missing the big picture of this situation.

                        Let's say the reduction in income is 9%. No, 10%. How about 15%? It doesn't matter as it is still better than 100% loss.

                        You appear to side with the union in this case, but your position has no foundation & logic if that's true. Arguing and asking "How many here could suffer an 8% reduction in income?" like it is an impossible obstacle. Meanwhile, left with the choice, the union elected to pursue a position that would grant them 100% reduction in income.

                        Proposing that not many, or only possibly the well off, would be the few to be able to sustain with an 8% reduction, may have little validity as well. This presumes that no adjustment can be made in spending to offset % decreases in income.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Darn Twinkie Union

                          Originally posted by BobsPlumbing View Post
                          While your big picture of the economy being broken may be reasonable, you seem to be missing the big picture of this situation.

                          Let's say the reduction in income is 9%. No, 10%. How about 15%? It doesn't matter as it is still better than 100% loss.

                          You appear to side with the union in this case, but your position has no foundation & logic if that's true. Arguing and asking "How many here could suffer an 8% reduction in income?" like it is an impossible obstacle. Meanwhile, left with the choice, the union elected to pursue a position that would grant them 100% reduction in income.

                          Proposing that not many, or only possibly the well off, would be the few to be able to sustain with an 8% reduction, may have little validity as well. This presumes that no adjustment can be made in spending to offset % decreases in income.
                          Bob, take the "Union" out of the equation altogether and just talk numbers for a moment. I believe there are many working folks who are just barely making ends meet with the cost of gas and other essentials. My thinking is that any and I mean any further loss of income either through pay cuts or inflation, and they are at a point where that 100% loss is a better deal. Once they lose it all they are in a better position because at least they will get some government assistance to pay bills and buy food. Why can't you fathom the idea of working at a loss, as opposed to going on government assistance? Do you really think there is suficient waste in everyone's budget to offset a reduction of 10% in their income? We and I mean all of us have already sustained a loss of income, money I used to spend on local businesses and purchases now goes to the pump and heating oil supplier.

                          I have argued through my local newspaper that while wasteful spending needs to be reduced, we cannot tighten our belts to a strong economy or balanced budget. The business owners here would not think of voluntarily reducing their prices or profit and neither should those who are not self employed. I believe the answer lies in capping essential commodities such as gas and other fuel, food and getting to the root of inflation. What we are seeing in all these failing businesses is the result of higher operating expenses, unfair competition where it is possible and many other factors. When people immediately blame Unions or labor and refuse to put themselves in that position I see a lack of insight. We can't pay workers enough to keep up with inflation and we can't assume those on the bottom can endure pay cuts and find enough "adjustments" to keep them afloat. You guys will still have twinkies, just expect to support more and more folks who no longer have jobs.
                          Last edited by Frankiarmz; 11-16-2012, 09:52 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Darn Twinkie Union

                            Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                            Bob, take the "Union" out of the equation altogether and just talk numbers for a moment. I believe there are many working folks who are just barely making ends meet with the cost of gas and other essentials. My thinking is that any and I mean any further loss of income either through pay cuts or inflation, and they are at a point where that 100% loss is a better deal. Once they lose it all they are in a better position because at least they will get some government assistance to pay bills and buy food. Why can't you fathom the idea of working at a loss, as opposed to going on government assistance? Do you really think there is suficient waste in everyone's budget to offset a reduction of 10% in their income? We and I mean all of us have already sustained a loss of income, money I used to spend on local businesses and purchases now goes to the pump and heating oil supplier.

                            I have argued through my local newspaper that while wasteful spending needs to be reduced, we cannot tighten our belts to a strong economy or balanced budget. The business owners here would not think of voluntarily reducing their prices or profit and neither should those who are not self employed. I believe the answer lies in capping essential commodities such as gas and other fuel, food and getting to the root of inflation. What we are seeing in all these failing businesses is the result of higher operating expenses, unfair competition where it is possible and many other factors. When people immediately blame Unions or labor and refuse to put themselves in that position I see a lack of insight. We can't pay workers enough to keep up with inflation and we can't assume those on the bottom can endure pay cuts and find enough "adjustments" to keep them afloat. You guys will still have twinkies, just expect to support more and more folks who no longer have jobs.
                            I completely understand your "big picture" and how you see the unbalanced trade & eroding industry of the U.S. without the necessary balance of low, middle, high class.

                            Your scenario proposes, and one might say promotes, quitting jobs for x % loss so that they can receive government benefits that will presumably be more. That leaves those that are employed to shoulder even more burden i.e. losing x % to cover the 100% loss by those electing to quit.

                            As anyone can see, that's a formula for end-game economics.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Darn Twinkie Union

                              there are many people who's income fluctuates from year to year,

                              most small business, income fluctuates yearly, I bet the plumbers on the site have fluctations in there incomes, I bet some years are good and some not as good.

                              busness they loose customers, economic conditions change, populations change, other business move change and make market conditions different, tecnology changes, methods change, life changes.

                              Farmers never know what the price is going to be of there crops, or the yield will be, and many times do not know if there land leases or rent rates will be the same from year to year, or even if they will be faming the same land in some instances from year to year.

                              I think that was some of Hostess situation, conditions changed and there income droped, and they could no longer contiue with the expences of years past, something had to change, apparently sales were not incressing but decressing,
                              and since they could not lower labor cost,
                              they had one more choice, stop produciton and sell out.
                              Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                              "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                              attributed to Samuel Johnson
                              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                              PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Darn Twinkie Union

                                Originally posted by BobsPlumbing View Post
                                I completely understand your "big picture" and how you see the unbalanced trade & eroding industry of the U.S. without the necessary balance of low, middle, high class.

                                Your scenario proposes, and one might say promotes, quitting jobs for x % loss so that they can receive government benefits that will presumably be more. That leaves those that are employed to shoulder even more burden i.e. losing x % to cover the 100% loss by those electing to quit.

                                As anyone can see, that's a formula for end-game economics.
                                Glad to see you are connecting the dots. Those lazy good for nothings would rather "quit" and go on government assistance! I just hope you and the rest of the folks still working can afford to foot the bill. I wonder how many of those bums will quit when they are faced with rising costs and pay cuts? I hope they ship all their jobs to communist china! I'm with you buddy.

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