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  • I'm Suspicious

    This whole fiscal cliff thing has got me thinking ( a dangerous thing indeed). Seems that President Obama has presented the republicans with a plan so unacceptable in that it asks for less in debt reductions than revenue increases. I think he purposely wants his plan to be rejected and have everyone's taxes go up! It's a win, win for him in that it places blame on the republicans and increase revenue. I doubt he cares about the middle class.

  • #2
    Re: I'm Suspicious

    Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
    This whole fiscal cliff thing has got me thinking ( a dangerous thing indeed). Seems that President Obama has presented the republicans with a plan so unacceptable in that it asks for less in debt reductions than revenue increases. I think he purposely wants his plan to be rejected and have everyone's taxes go up! It's a win, win for him in that it places blame on the republicans and increase revenue. I doubt he cares about the middle class.
    For the dictator not to get 1 single vote on his budget plan should tell you all you need to know about this a$$clown.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: I'm Suspicious

      I look at the price of gasoline, diesel, and heating fuel and think game over. I wonder what President Obama is thinking with his budget proposal/plan, and look down the road if we fall off the fiscal cliff. Many folks who are barely hanging on for any number of reasons will be faced with rising taxes on top of inflation. The negative trickle down effect resulting from their reduced spending power will negatively affect other businesses. Forget about growing jobs for a moment, this could put us in a worse situation than a recession. What the heck is he thinking? Makes no sense, please someone explain.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: I'm Suspicious

        Frank, I was in Great Britain in the USAF '68-'71. Gas was a little over $2 a liter or about $8 a gallon. I think gas was around 40 cents a gallon here at the time. I don't know what heating oil or diesel cost but I suspect similar pricing. The Brits laugh at us when we complain about $4 a gallon gas.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: I'm Suspicious

          Originally posted by killavolt View Post
          Frank, I was in Great Britain in the USAF '68-'71. Gas was a little over $2 a liter or about $8 a gallon. I think gas was around 40 cents a gallon here at the time. I don't know what heating oil or diesel cost but I suspect similar pricing. The Brits laugh at us when we complain about $4 a gallon gas.
          They can laugh all they want, but they don't live here! Many of us do not live close to work, and for many years it made sense to buy a more affordable house and drive because gas was reasonable. Our gas, diesel and heating oil costs have doubled in four years and I think that has fueled inflation and unemployment. Not laughing. Have the brits been supporting a massive illegal population, what is their national deficit? We can't change the game in our favor by junking our cars and buying high MPG models, the money is not there! We can't leave our homes and move close to where we work. We don't need others to laugh or criticize us. We need a legislator with a detailed plan to save our economy, and the cooperation of big business to support those efforts.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: I'm Suspicious

            Originally posted by killavolt View Post
            The Brits laugh at us when we complain about $4 a gallon gas.
            and the Brits warned us we didn't want Obamacare either.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: I'm Suspicious

              ... Have the brits been supporting a massive illegal population,...
              And, have they been fighting a border war, a drug war at home, and a military war half way around the globe, in addition to handing out billions to the needy around the world, and also shelling out billions in bribes to countries to get their will imposed on them or buy the use of their land for some military base? Oh, last but not least, have they been fighting an internal political war between their parties that threatens to self-destruct their country if it doesn't stop.

              This game of chicken needs to end and our representatives in government need to learn how to negotiate to resolve their differences and stop holding their breath until someone turns blue.

              Don't forget that the UK has limited refining capacity onshore. Go to Hiawii and see how much food and gasoline are. When you have to import everything the price goes up.
              ---------------
              Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
              ---------------
              “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
              ---------
              "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
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              sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: I'm Suspicious

                In the summer of 2008 I drove approximately 1100 miles moving my family from Eastern North Carolina, to SouthWestern Missouri. I paid $4.05 a gallon on that trip. I bought gas last night for $3.17.


                Check your facts before you repeat things you've been told.
                No, it's not rocket science, it's plumbing and unlike rocket science it requires a license.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: I'm Suspicious

                  Originally posted by MoJourneyman View Post
                  In the summer of 2008 I drove approximately 1100 miles moving my family from Eastern North Carolina, to SouthWestern Missouri. I paid $4.05 a gallon on that trip. I bought gas last night for $3.17.


                  Check your facts before you repeat things you've been told.
                  Average gasoline price falls below $2, cheapest since 2005 - USATODAY.com

                  Here in Ct it's $3.89 and up. My thoughts are that anything over $2 a gallon regardless of who is our President is a death blow to the economy.
                  You can tell me to bundle up to stay warm in my house I can't afford to heat, but that doesn't help all the folks who can't afford to fill up and find a job or keep a job. The high price of gas and diesel drives up prices at the stores further reducing our consumer spending. I don't care what folks in europe or anywhere else pay for their gas, I care about our economy. Call me selfish but I want our country to survive, and paying a communist super power for our consumer goods while Americans are out of work is stupid, so is going further into debt to run a government that can't balance a budget. We have serious problems that have not and are not being addressed. We have two political parties that don't car about "We the People" and pander to those benefitting from entitlments or those who benefit from tax breaks and friendly laws that allow them to ship off jobs. While we argue the price of gas, people are losing jobs, homes and families. You don't need to defend democrats or republicans to see what is happening. Our economic stability was in jeopardy for many years under democrats and republican administrations, only now are we seeing the years of damage. Explore for oil, develop coal and natural gas, build the pipeline, bring back jobs and manufacture most of what you consume, cut in half the pirce of gas, diesel. Do something other than argue and kill the clock.
                  Last edited by Frankiarmz; 12-01-2012, 11:55 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: I'm Suspicious

                    Franki,

                    Why do you expect gasoline to be $2.00 a gallon or less? Really on what planet do live? Gasoline, like way too many things in our economy, is part of a global economy. While the industry can adjust or even fix prices, the President cannot. He can as you know, open strategic oil reserves in an effort to flood the marketplace and thus eas the price somewhat..... BUT, how long do you think he can do that? At the rate that we use gasoline, especially, those reserves would be drained in a matter of months and then we would have NO reservies whatsoever. Then what do we do should China or anyone else decide to start a conflict? No fuel reserves for our military operations! The "strategic oil reserves" are NOT there to help you because you are living beyond your means.

                    The price of gasoline is NOT higher than it was in the last years of the Bush administration. For a while, the price around here in 2007 or 2008 was $4.50 a gallon; now the price here is $3.69. If you own two or three vehicles, SUVs, 4-ton trucks or whatever, who's fault is that. We don't see those kinds of vehicles in the UK or elsewhere because petro is considered expensive there and thus people live like it is. The Constitution does not guarantee you or any of us a right to free gasoline or fuel of anykind.

                    Regarding the budget proposal, I do not agree with it either... but let us face the facts, the Republican-controlled Congress IS holding the middle-class hostage to ensure that the top 2% does NOT get a tax increase. Negotiation is often usually started by asking for much more than you want. None of us can second guess that approach here from the administration. However, we can after four years certainly know where the Republicans stand and historically higher taxes does NOT diminish jobs. On the contrary, history clearly shows that higher taxes have grown jobs by lowering the debt and providing incentives for investment within the country. But as it stands now, the lower taxes on the top 2% only seems to allow them to invest overseas, steal our jobs, and make them even more money through non-taxable foreign profiteering.

                    Returning to the oil thing, let's face it (and try to look at that objectively).... One of the big arguements is that pipeline from Alberta. Why? As I understand it, this arguement is over a second, parallel line. One line already exists from Alberta to Oklahoma... part of the story here is that this past year there is a glut of oil stockpiled in Oklahoma. The pipeline is NOT there or proposed to be there for the sake of us U.S. consumers.... it is planned to pipe this oil sludge to a port, where it can be exported elsewhere.

                    The same is true of fracking. Here in NY as in PA and elsewhere, we already have gas wells. Many are not as a result of fracking, but direct tap into gas pockets. In the Corning-area alone, I know of several wells that were successfully drilled and were immediately capped. The plan may well help us here... but much, if not most, is planned for export! And whatever we used will be charged at global prices. In other words, we'll give up our lands, our highways, our infrastructure, and our good water.... all for the sake of profit to a production company that will export it and sell back to us at those export prices. All because you and others like you think that something is going to be free or almost free for you. (And when it comes to $2 per gallon gasoline, that's almost free when compared to the global market.)

                    CWS

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: I'm Suspicious

                      Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
                      Franki,

                      Why do you expect gasoline to be $2.00 a gallon or less? Really on what planet do live? Gasoline, like way too many things in our economy, is part of a global economy. While the industry can adjust or even fix prices, the President cannot. He can as you know, open strategic oil reserves in an effort to flood the marketplace and thus eas the price somewhat..... BUT, how long do you think he can do that? At the rate that we use gasoline, especially, those reserves would be drained in a matter of months and then we would have NO reservies whatsoever. Then what do we do should China or anyone else decide to start a conflict? No fuel reserves for our military operations! The "strategic oil reserves" are NOT there to help you because you are living beyond your means.

                      The price of gasoline is NOT higher than it was in the last years of the Bush administration. For a while, the price around here in 2007 or 2008 was $4.50 a gallon; now the price here is $3.69. If you own two or three vehicles, SUVs, 4-ton trucks or whatever, who's fault is that. We don't see those kinds of vehicles in the UK or elsewhere because petro is considered expensive there and thus people live like it is. The Constitution does not guarantee you or any of us a right to free gasoline or fuel of anykind.

                      Regarding the budget proposal, I do not agree with it either... but let us face the facts, the Republican-controlled Congress IS holding the middle-class hostage to ensure that the top 2% does NOT get a tax increase. Negotiation is often usually started by asking for much more than you want. None of us can second guess that approach here from the administration. However, we can after four years certainly know where the Republicans stand and historically higher taxes does NOT diminish jobs. On the contrary, history clearly shows that higher taxes have grown jobs by lowering the debt and providing incentives for investment within the country. But as it stands now, the lower taxes on the top 2% only seems to allow them to invest overseas, steal our jobs, and make them even more money through non-taxable foreign profiteering.

                      Returning to the oil thing, let's face it (and try to look at that objectively).... One of the big arguements is that pipeline from Alberta. Why? As I understand it, this arguement is over a second, parallel line. One line already exists from Alberta to Oklahoma... part of the story here is that this past year there is a glut of oil stockpiled in Oklahoma. The pipeline is NOT there or proposed to be there for the sake of us U.S. consumers.... it is planned to pipe this oil sludge to a port, where it can be exported elsewhere.

                      The same is true of fracking. Here in NY as in PA and elsewhere, we already have gas wells. Many are not as a result of fracking, but direct tap into gas pockets. In the Corning-area alone, I know of several wells that were successfully drilled and were immediately capped. The plan may well help us here... but much, if not most, is planned for export! And whatever we used will be charged at global prices. In other words, we'll give up our lands, our highways, our infrastructure, and our good water.... all for the sake of profit to a production company that will export it and sell back to us at those export prices. All because you and others like you think that something is going to be free or almost free for you. (And when it comes to $2 per gallon gasoline, that's almost free when compared to the global market.)

                      CWS
                      CWS, I find it funny how I am painted as a conseravtive now because I disagree with the last four years of President Obama's liberal/ecology/campaign contributor, driven agenda; but in 2008 I was hated for criticizing President Bush. I find President Obama's remarks on the solyndra failure as arrogant as President Bush's remarks when asked about the price of gasoline. You may think $4 a gallon gas is reasonable , I don't . I'm like a lot of Americans who can't afford newer, more fuel efficietn vehicles. I'm stuck paying at the pump and paying at the mechanic's. The country I live in saw big oil making a profit selling $1.89 a gallon gas, now they simply make more of a profit. The global economy you speak of is a farce, sam as the term global ecology. Communist china manipulates it's currency, pollutes soil, air and water without a thought, and provides us with sometimes toxic and often substandard goods. I am not a champion of the republican cause, but when I see a budget proposal that does not include massive spending cuts, I am smart enough to know who is holding who hostage. CWS, you compose your posts very well, but I don't think you see down the road to where our masive debt, inflation, unemployment, out of control spending and other serious issues takes us. We are in new uncharted territory every time the debt rises, energy costs rise, inflation rises, and nothing is done to reduce spending and employ Americans. This is not a democratic/republican problem, it is one of survival. Our standard of living is not mirrored by the silent slave labor of communist china.

                      I think President Obama can influence the price of oil in a number of ways. He should meet with representative from big oil and lay it on the line. Explain to them how fragile our economy is and how we must work together, so that we can recover and they can profit. I am not looking for free, I am looking for what is workable. The cash for clunkers plan did not help me or millions of other Americans. $2 a gallon gasoline is not free or almost free for the folks who have suffered pay cuts, and are struggling to keep a roof over their heads. Not everyone is spoiled. Not everyone who disagrees with a democrat is a conservative, nor is everyone who disagrees with a republican a liberal. Some of us reserve the right to think for ourselves without labels. Show me how people who are barely holding on can afford high fuel prices, show me how our economy can survive with a sixteen trillion and growing debt, no budget reforms, spending cuts, etc. Think beyond your specific situation, see the big picture of people and problems, then tell me we are part of the global anything!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: I'm Suspicious

                        a few thoughts and statements here, the basic base price of fuel is much the same world wide, yes there may be some shipping on it, but the big variable is the TAX the various governments add to the cost of the fuel, File:Fuel tax in OECD countries, 2010..png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                        if more producing was allowed in the US, first we may be energy independent, and in the process we would nearly or could nearly break the OPEC monopoly on the price of fuel, yes it is a world price, but if no longer a major customer but a producer it tills the playing field, and currently the US Government has blocked many areas from producers of oil, and in some instances have allowed foreign interest to drill in the gulf while blocking US interests,
                        Oil rig arrives for Cuba offshore exploration work | Reuters
                        not entirely sure if this article is accurate but there have been very few new oil refineries built in the last 30+ years, Bakken gets new oil refinery, U.S.' first in 35 years - Pennenergy
                        yes there have improvements and expansions on some of the older plants,
                        but our government is not serious about energy Independence or to keep America moving on energy, (the department of energy was created in I think 1977 for the reason to make us more energy independent,
                        Mission . The mission of the Energy Department is to ensure America’s security and prosperity by addressing its energy, environmental and nuclear challenges through transformative science and technology solutions.
                        WHY ARE WE held hostage by a group of people for energy that takes that money and funnels it into terrorism organizations that want to kill us, (some thing is wrong with that picture),

                        I would guess the EPA has cost the American consumer as much as any one governmental agency out there, yes some of there work is needed but much of what they do has no real logic,

                        people did not really start to loose there houses until energy costs sky rocketed, was it the "housing boom collapsing' or was higher energy prices making many on the edge not able to pay there mortgages? causing the collapse of the housing market?

                        and I do not think the problem lies with "big oil" but in the administrations policies and trying to drive up fossil fuel prices so green energies have a snow balls chance to succeed
                        Last edited by BHD; 12-01-2012, 04:16 PM.
                        Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                        "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                        attributed to Samuel Johnson
                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                        PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: I'm Suspicious

                          Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
                          the Republican-controlled Congress IS holding the middle-class hostage to ensure that the top 2% does NOT get a tax increase. CWS
                          and who is getting their slimy hands on this tax money, do you even know?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: I'm Suspicious

                            Come to Australia Frank we are paying between $1.40 to $1.60 per litre and what moron would be still heating their house with oil these days we changed to natural gas in the eighties from reading your threads you would be one of the luckiest members on this this forum as you worked for a utility all your working life got a pension on retirement and gambled nothing didn`t have to put the house up for calateral to keep the business running didn`t worry where the next pay check was coming from as most on this forum have or worry if that client will pay for their last job no Frank it is about time you counted your blessings

                            Tony

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: I'm Suspicious

                              Originally posted by AFM View Post
                              Come to Australia Frank we are paying between $1.40 to $1.60 per litre and what moron would be still heating their house with oil these days we changed to natural gas in the eighties from reading your threads you would be one of the luckiest members on this this forum as you worked for a utility all your working life got a pension on retirement and gambled nothing didn`t have to put the house up for calateral to keep the business running didn`t worry where the next pay check was coming from as most on this forum have or worry if that client will pay for their last job no Frank it is about time you counted your blessings

                              Tony
                              Always a kind word Tony I'm not the only "moron" heating with oil because there is no natural gas available in our area. Big oil saw to it years ago when laying lines was more affordable, and kept their prices down. I can appreciate the plight of the small business owner because I'm a compassionate and slightly intelligent guy, where as you are clueless of my work history. Many months of lost wages while on strike with a billion dollar corporation that had every intention of giving us what we asked for in the end. One of our members was killed by the daughter of a manager who ran her car through a picket line, he left behind small children. Maybe you or some other kind fellow can say something stupid about that tragedy? Tony, your full of bright ideas about the U.S.A., leader of the free world, and now Union workers. Go eat some of that tough lamb and count your blessings as well. Frank

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