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  • #31
    Re: Liar

    Currently my wife and I pay almost $17,000.00 a year, out of pocket, for health and dental insurance for just the two of us! That figure is expected to go up under Obamacare so if you think that that is affordable healthcare than you do not live in the world that I do. It is going to be real interesting when employers start cutting back on the number of full time employees they have because they can't afford to pay the cost of mandated health insurance for full time employees. That will happen and I don't put any blame on business when it does.
    Teach your kids about taxes..........eat 30 percent of their ice cream.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Liar

      The "Affordable Healthcare Act" is a long way from affordable and is nothing like what Obama promised. My rates continue to go up and the wife and I are currently paying $18,000 per year even after increasing our copay contributions. What Obamacare really did was cut medicare, add 30,000,000 on the dole healthcare recipients and decreased payments to healthcare providers. Of course none of that is free so it is now spread around to the rest of us. Calling this reform is an absolute joke.

      Mark
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Liar

        Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
        The so-called definitions that Flux gives have no reflecction in the truth. Not in this country and certainly not in the international world. IF any of that were true, then the world press would be all over us.

        Flux, you say "Obama wants to circumvent the Constitution, and he's proved that with his words ".... that is NO kind of an answer! Blue_can asked you for specifics, and now I'm asking you for specifics... that statement from you is not specific at all, it is nothing more than one of your very general "hatred" statements!

        In the past and here too, you alude to "reading" some of Obama's statements, books, etc. to see where the man is coming from. In the past you stated that his books are "full of evil" (IIRC). Well, I've started to read a few of his writings. So far I seem to be really missing your point of view. So in all fairness, why don't you make things easier and give me a few "quotations" or better yet, give me the book, chapter, and line that you have personally read and find "evil". Maybe I am wrong, and I'm open-minded enough to perhaps have my thinking changed, so please get off your hatred thing for a minute and give me some proof of what you say.

        The "great-divider"..... hmmm, that's sort of an interesting thought, especially after the last administration and the lies and division that they pushed on all on all of us. The last few decades of Republican stealing from the American middle class; everything from pension stealing to selling off of American technology for the sake of increased profits to rich while they've driven down the income of the middle class. This nation of our did not enter "Debtor" status until Reagan, lowered taxes on upper incomes and corporations. This nation did not start to loose jobs to Asia, until the greed of America's richest overbounded with de-regulation was pushed the Republican party and is still so steadfastly fought for.

        What we have seen is the "evil" of a party that has moved so far to Right that nothing matters unless it is for the good of the NEW American Aristocracy. I see all these wonderfully patriotic Americans, who don't give a rat's butt, about anything that is "for the people". What we here especially seem to be about is denying anything positive "for the people". We do not have any understanding that going into Iraq, was contrary to the objective of getting the terrorisism behind "9-11". Iraq had absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to do with "9-11", instead it was a "big-oil" adminstration going after "big-oil" assets. And it was about using the sons and daughters of the middle-class and the poor to do so!

        Most all of you seem to have no problem with that. No problem with going to war and borrowing all the cost of it. No problem with thousands dead and crippled, and still no problem with the idea that we did that to ourselves. Yet, when it comes to helping pay for medical care for your neighbors and relatives, you have a really big problem and are screaming about the "dictator". It's sort of sad.

        CWS
        I think it's safe to say there is no hope for you CWS and I don't mean that in a vicious way either. If I took the time to read "dreams of my father", "the audacity of hope", and read Obama speeches and listen his words that comes out of his mouth, I think you could very well do the same.

        Since you're being obtuse, it doesn't really matter if I posted 5 pages of the dictators drivel that came out of his mouth, cause you would just sit there and spin it. I have nothing to prove to you or anyone cause I take people at their word and their actions.

        Obama's views and words are well documented, you're either ignoring the facts or totally clueless.

        I surely don't get your logic and this isn't about Republicans or democrats, this is about a person with an anti-american ideology.

        Go and buy "Dreams of my father" sit down and read it...then come back and tell us it's all lies.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Liar

          Originally posted by blue_can View Post
          Yep my thoughts exactly. People are okay with going to war, freedom to own a gun etc (the Autozone thread) but perish the thought of affordable healthcare - let's all get screwed by the current system and changing that apparently infringes on our freedoms.
          I almost feel sorry for you, but then I forget that you're from California and don't know any better. That state has been a mess for a very long time, and since it's been a Democratic strong hold for many many years, you people are running out of excuses, and it should be a constant reminder for everyone, never to vote Democrat. Talk about a good screwing...

          The city of Philadelphia has been under Democratic rule for 60 years and it's still a financial mess as they owe billions!! Now they want the suburbs (my area) to pay for their mess!

          But yet...it's republican lies that's suppressing the people.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Liar

            Flux, you confuse me. You bash Democrats, Obama, Reid, etc. and yet you say ".it's republican lies that's suppressing the people." Maybe it is how people read things.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Liar

              Originally posted by Pipestone Kid View Post
              Flux, you confuse me. You bash Democrats, Obama, Reid, etc. and yet you say ".it's republican lies that's suppressing the people." Maybe it is how people read things.
              LOL, I'm guessing you missed the sarcasm.

              Mark
              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Liar

                Originally Posted by blue_can
                Yep my thoughts exactly. People are okay with going to war, freedom to own a gun etc (the Autozone thread) but perish the thought of affordable healthcare - let's all get screwed by the current system and changing that apparently infringes on our freedoms.

                You are ignoring some very basic and important things in your opinion/argument. Obamacare was determined to be a "tax" on us, affordable to those who do not pay for it. Gun ownership does not negatively impact the economy and we the taxpayers don't foot the bill. Not everyone is okay with going to war, but to keep freedom strong, to put an end to scum like sadaam and his crew you make exceptions. Lastly, how are we not screwed by providing "affordable" healthcare when we are over sixteen trillion dollars in debt? People need to do without healthcare and accpet a respectable death until such time that we do not owe so much debt.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Liar

                  Originally posted by Flux View Post
                  I almost feel sorry for you, but then I forget that you're from California and don't know any better. That state has been a mess for a very long time, and since it's been a Democratic strong hold for many many years, you people are running out of excuses, and it should be a constant reminder for everyone, never to vote Democrat. Talk about a good screwing...

                  The city of Philadelphia has been under Democratic rule for 60 years and it's still a financial mess as they owe billions!! Now they want the suburbs (my area) to pay for their mess!

                  But yet...it's republican lies that's suppressing the people.
                  I feel so bad for myself now after seeing your post and realizing what a mess I'm in living a democratic state.

                  LMAO

                  My reference to affordable healthcare was not referring to Obamacare which I agree is not really a good solution. The whole system as far as cost is broken almost beyond repair. Also given the opposition to some form of universal healthcare commonly found in many other developed countries this situation will not get better for most people. I have not studied this subject in detail so I'm not sure whether there is a strong lobby by healthcare system to create an impression that universal healthcare is somehow infringing on our freedoms. My post was simply designed to contrast what many people's priorities are - ie no big issue if affordable healthcare is not available but I need to keep my guns at any cost.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Liar

                    Originally posted by Pipestone Kid View Post
                    Flux, you confuse me. You bash Democrats, Obama, Reid, etc. and yet you say ".it's republican lies that's suppressing the people." Maybe it is how people read things.
                    Pipe, I think we all generally want the same things in life, but there are 2 schools of thought on how to achieve it. I believe in the constitution, and I believe in being self reliant, and not asking the government to solve all our problems. There are certain things any government shouldn't be involved in and Healthcare is one of the major ones.

                    I also don't believe in punishing people for being successful in life, cause this country is all about achieving the American dream. I'm not a rich guy, but I'm not jealous of what others have either, and I honestly believe jealousy plays a role as well. I simply don't sit here and look at what others have and wish I had the same them. I don't sit around waiting for the government to come bail me out of some mess either. If I fail in life I want it to because I put myself in that position and not because someone put me there.

                    It basically boils down to...I'm responsible for my own actions. I will do what it takes to make sure my family has food on the table, a roof over our head, and healthcare. You will never see me trying to force others to give me what they got.

                    Read Obamas books...you will learn a lot about the guy.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Liar

                      Flux,

                      Well my friend, I do still have hope for you!

                      At times you leave me wondering just how far "right" YOU are, or whether you are just susceptible to the right-wing rhetoric that someone is feeding you. We are all entitled to our opinions though, so I'll leave you that.

                      I do find it disappointing though, that with your pronounced hatred of Obama, and the many comments that you have made about all his "evil", especially that written in his books, you can't really give me an example. Nor can you provide an instance to blue_can of Obama's defiance of the Constitution. You talk about Obama's "$Millions" paid to hide his college records, but you offer no proof and no clue even as to where he got those millions.

                      I'm only about a third of the way through "Audacity".... I started it earlier this week, and I confess that it is pretty slow going. Every time I turn the page, I find myself wondering about all the evil you speak of and so go back and read it again; sometimes twice. So far, not a single thing has been found. Hey, maybe Rush has different glasses than I do... I wonder if you can get a pair where "evil" writings show up in red or something?

                      Hey, I've been around for 68 years. I've lived through "Tricky Dick's" wage/price freezes (talk about a Constitutional over-step), I've managed through Reagan's gifts to the rich and the robbery of middle-class pensions, and I've made it through the blunders of Bush senior, and the ineptness, Constitutional infringements, and waste of the military and squandering of jobs and bankrupsy of little Bush's years. Hell man, I've even made it through the last four years of anti-Americanism of an obstructionist Republican Congress. Funny how through all of that, the country still manages to correct itself.

                      So, in your very last post you decry your independence. Good for you. I'm presuming that at no time in your past have you, your parents, or any of your family or friends have ever had to rely on the government for anything. Apparently you don't drive, eat, sleep, get sick, or ever buy anything. Good for you!

                      CWS

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Liar

                        I understand some of the frustration that has lead to comments by Flux. This link highlights some of the overstepping, Obama rules as a dictator, says Ron Paul — RT
                        CWS, I agree we have made it through some shaky times, headed up by leaders from both political parties. I do think we are in unchartered territory with President Obama and our current economy. Have we ever had this sort of debt to GDP ratio, unemployment, dependence on a communist super power for most of our consumer goods, lack of manufacturing, entitlement spending and national debt?
                        I'm a simple guy, my math is not on par with some here, but explain to me how we pay down this debt, stabilize the economy and still pay for all the entitlement spending? Just my observations and opinions, but any example I could suggest on a much smaller scale using these proportions, state, city, town, or family, would have failed long ago. How is it our country is immune from economic disaster with such a financial profile? If the numbers on the FHA are correct, we are headed for anothe housing melt down. Flux has good reason for concern in my opinion, and while I agree people need public assistance (food stamps, housing, ect.) without inspectors like we had many years ago, there is too much opportunity for abuse and fraud.
                        Last edited by Frankiarmz; 12-08-2012, 07:03 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Liar

                          Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                          LOL, I'm guessing you missed the sarcasm.

                          Mark
                          No. I did not miss it--I purposely"skipped" over it like so many people do as they read things. That is how so much of the "stories" that are floating around get started. I have received so many false emails that take a few words and add to them and make it a crisis. An example--some guy read a preliminary report by a commission set up to look into violations of off shore fishing. At the end of his "critique" he said "I suppose the next thing he (Obama) will do is ban all fishing". Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh both picked it up and broadcast "OBAMA BANS ALL FISHING"

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Liar

                            I can't believe Obama is going to ban all fishing! When is this going into effect?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Liar

                              Frankie--read my post carefully. He is not going to ban fishing.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Liar

                                Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                                I understand some of the frustration that has lead to comments by Flux. This link highlights some of the overstepping, Obama rules as a dictator, says Ron Paul — RT
                                CWS, I agree we have made it through some shaky times, headed up by leaders from both political parties. I do think we are in unchartered territory with President Obama and our current economy. Have we ever had this sort of debt to GDP ratio, unemployment, dependence on a communist super power for most of our consumer goods, lack of manufacturing, entitlement spending and national debt?
                                I'm a simple guy, my math is not on par with some here, but explain to me how we pay down this debt, stabilize the economy and still pay for all the entitlement spending? Just my observations and opinions, but any example I could suggest on a much smaller scale using these proportions, state, city, town, or family, would have failed long ago. How is it our country is immune from economic disaster with such a financial profile? If the numbers on the FHA are correct, we are headed for anothe housing melt down. Flux has good reason for concern in my opinion, and while I agree people need public assistance (food stamps, housing, ect.) without inspectors like we had many years ago, there is too much opportunity for abuse and fraud.

                                Ron Paul? Are you kidding me? This guy is so far off reality it isn't funny! Why don't you just give me a quote from Rush Limbaugh or something.

                                First, let me point out the middle sentence, third paragraph of that particular story: " Although the president has the power to make such appointments "

                                Okay, so now "the President has the power".... which means the President has the power within the framework of the Constitution of the United States. It is there to get around those who are impeding and obstructing. So, how then can the President then be accused of being a "dictator" if he is working within the powers granted to him by the Constitution???? Such a statement is therefore and absolute lie, obviously.

                                Regarding your questions of the economy, etc. I really won't disagree with you on most of what you say. However, I have answered most, if not all of these things before. You either don't agree to the point that you don't want to see, or refuse to see. But let me just say this (AGAIN): While Yes, we are at record levels in our debt, I don't believe we are at record levels on a per-capita basise, when inflation is taken into account... but of course I'd have to spent some time looking up numbers, which I'm NOT going to do again.

                                Suffice it to say, that in 1945 we were probably at a much higher debt, per capita, than we are today. Remember, we came out of an almost total collapse of our economy in the early 30's. No money, very few jobs, no Social Security, no unemployment insurance, and no government intervention under the Republican administration at that time.

                                At that time, we were way down the list as a world power (I saw the other night, that we were something like 19th, though I didn't think we were even close to being that far down the list). This country had NO money supposedly AND, we were on the "gold standard", that so many today want to see us return to.

                                Challenges at that time were overwhelming, with the "dust bowl" destroying much of our farm lands and displacing thousands of farming families. Wall Street, banking and general industry had pretty much already collapsed in the weeks following "the crash".

                                Europe was in ruin, also having suffered economic collapse, and though America's "big money" guys were investing, they were investing twice as much in Germany than they were in all of the rest of Europe. This allowed Germany to ignore the retrictive treaties that had been forced upon it at the end of WWI. By 1939, Germany (with it's U.S. financier's backing) had grown it's military forces to the point where it over ran Europe, with only Great Britain left to defend itself. Japan had also overan a good portion of China and Indonesia and BOTH were threatening the U.S.

                                So Frankie, where does that compare to today? Back then it was only us and G.B. and her dominions against the power of Japan and Germany! AND, we were in major economic turmoil with few jobs, no social support, and very little tax revenue to bring us back from that position. Like today, we even had a "right-wing" element that was touting the same kind of policies.

                                Thankfully, the people, our Grandfathers and mothers had the good sense to replace the Republicans with FDR. Out of vertually nothing, we got off the gold standard. We initiated Social Security. We lauched new agricultural programs, rebuilt our military, launched new technoly training in our schools, hired thousands of your young men and women into new government programs like the CCC. We came to the aid of G.B., by kick-starting our industries into manufacturing all kinds of war goods, not only for G.B.m but also for the Soviet Union.

                                With this massive, record-breaking, spending of non-existant funds, we not only came back from the brink of collapse, but became the Number 1 world power!

                                The point is, it takes massive government support. We took a country that had little to nothing and we printed money, and we hired workers, subsidized industry, and we built an economy that not only swelled to giant proportions, but also rebuilt most of Europe and Asia. The facts are there, just look them up. As I've told you before, we were in the aftermath of the Great Depression, and the world was in war, and with proper leadership we came back from all of that. But it took our government, and it's wild-*** spending to do it.

                                So, by 1946 can you imagine what our debt mus have been? All that printing of money, all that spending for ships, airplanes, bombs, and bullets... all on credit? Where did we get all that money? How were we able to do that?

                                But, in the 40's and 50's and 60's, some of our tax rates for the richest people in the country were as high as 90%. In England, throught the war years (mucn longer than our war years), the tax on profits was 100%. With those high taxes, we built a massive highway system under Eisenhowere. As you well know, our industry flourished. Jobs were everywhere, and almost everybody could afford buy a house, even with much higher mortgage rates. Men coming home from the war could go to college, or get training, under the GI Bill. Universities expanded. Community colleges were created. Life was good.

                                But in the 80's we elected Ronald Reagan, and he decided that the rich needed all the breaks in the world. He also decided that since industry was beginning to see some world competitions, it was only fair that they be allowed to take all the money that they had sat aside, under law, for American worker's pensions. And so there we have it.... for the very first time, the United States of America became a "debtor nation". And what did all these rich folks do, all these wonder huge companies, who had been built with American sweat and blood.... they got gready. They weren't satisfied with what these new revenues meant to them. Instead they decided that "profit" was very easy. Reagan and the Republican party showed them the way. Showed them that they had a friend in goverment and that they would be protected and even motivated to scrape more profit off the the backs of American workers... by simply sacrifising the workers themselves.

                                Jobs could be exported!

                                So, here we are. And, here we will stay as long as people keep believing the idea that higher taxes means few jobs. That no government, is better. That de-regulation is right, and that big business, uncontrolled business, non-tax paying business, off-shoring business, is a GOOD THING. The last 70 years has shown that none of that is true. The last 70 years has shown almost the exact opposite.

                                CWS
                                Last edited by CWSmith; 12-09-2012, 01:28 PM.

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