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Newtown incident - Why?

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  • #16
    Re: Newtown incident - Why?

    Originally posted by Alphacowboy View Post
    Bob, I agree and disagree. I've been playing FPS games since its inception with Wolfenstein 3D (thats 20 years ago mind you) . Never even thought about killing anyone in real life. I will admit that the online multiplayer was way more challenging back in the day when you died, you were out until the next round. It made you play much more cautiously than one does today. I think the weapon or games matter not, the fact is there is some seriously messed up folks among us...
    Yes, I remember them too and I played them. I'm not saying they affect everyone that way. There may be a connection and there may not. Maybe its just me trying to rationalize how these people end up this way as I hate to believe they are brought up in a household that condones this type of senseless violence. Something in the past 20 years or so has affected them, because before 1999 (Columbine incident) we didn't have people going around massacuring school kids did we? As a student ion the 60s and 70s they never had to bring a grief consuler into any of my schools to console us about a student who went off the edge and killed his family. Maybe it happened, but we didn't get any help -and- it didn't become national news to there was no fame or notariaty associated with the crime for those who committed them. OK, maybe in most cases they are dead by the time it is over and that probably is for the best the way I see it. Yes, I know they are disturbed and need help, my take is there's not much hope for a teenager who would kill a couple dozen 6 year olds and their own parents. If they liver we would have had to relive the event time and again and spend millions trying to put them away.

    I gotta stop before I go nuts over this crap.

    I am glad I grew up when I did in the 50s, 60s, 70s and I wish that same America was here for todays kids. I know it can never be but I wish.
    ---------------
    Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
    ---------------
    “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
    ---------
    "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
    ---------
    sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

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    • #17
      Re: Newtown incident - Why?

      Ron, fully automatic weapons were not used in this killing nor were they used in any that I can remember. Fully automatic weapons are illegal to own and are not sold to the general public. Semi-automatic weapons have been sold and used since they were invented. Thousands of people use semi-auto shotguns for pheasant hunting. Should we ban them and take them all away? My pistol isn't considered a semi-auto because it's a revolver, it holds seven 357 high powered rounds. I can pull the trigger as fast as my finger can pull and I can reload all seven shells in less than 3 seconds. Should we ban these too?
      So the mother owned the guns and her mentally challenged son had access to them and to the ammunition? If this is true then I think we all know where the fault is don't we?

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      • #18
        Re: Newtown incident - Why?

        Originally posted by ironranger View Post
        Ron, fully automatic weapons were not used in this killing nor were they used in any that I can remember. Fully automatic weapons are illegal to own and are not sold to the general public. Semi-automatic weapons have been sold and used since they were invented. Thousands of people use semi-auto shotguns for pheasant hunting. Should we ban them and take them all away? My pistol isn't considered a semi-auto because it's a revolver, it holds seven 357 high powered rounds. I can pull the trigger as fast as my finger can pull and I can reload all seven shells in less than 3 seconds. Should we ban these too?
        So the mother owned the guns and her mentally challenged son had access to them and to the ammunition? If this is true then I think we all know where the fault is don't we?
        I stand corrected. I'm just going nuts on "How did we get to this point", and trying to understand the complications of everything involved. Like Bob, I was fortunate enough to have grown when times were much, much different and cry when I see what our children are dealing with and doing in today's world.

        There has to be a solution to get things back within control with these killings.


        Ron


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        • #19
          Re: Newtown incident - Why?

          Originally posted by Pipestone Kid View Post
          I know some of you will jump all over me for this, but that's OK. I have guns and I have a permit to carry. But, until 2004, fully automatic weapons were banned. (Why they were made legal, I don't know) I fail to see why John Q. Citizen needs to have an AK47 or something similar. I grant you, it won't stop crazies, but it would prevent some of the mass attacks by them.

          actually full auto weapons have never been baned by the federal government, if one wants to go through the hoops and has the money one can buy one today and have and shoot it legally, IN the early 80s, they stopped the new sale of class III to civilians, they can still be sold to military and police, so what did the Class iii dealers do they went to police departments and bought or traded them new class III firearms for there old stock pre band guns to resale,

          what your most likely referring to is what was called the assault weapons ban, (this was never for full auto rifles, and was only on the semi automatic) Federal Assault Weapons Ban - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
          and that was a total joke, what they outlawed was the furniture and the flash suppressor for the most part, and some on magazine capacity, but it was still legal to sell and trade any thing that had been made before the law went into effect, so there was little shortage of magazines or other, the guns them selfs was only semi automatic, one shot per pull of the trigger, which may be a small 22 rim fire up to and elephant gun, the basic inside working of them is the same,
          and magazine size is a joke as well, as any well trained person can switch out magazines in a very short period of time, even take the M1 with the 8 round en bloc magazine once a rife man learned the procedure he could all most fire continuous, with the top load configuration of the M1 rifle, and most well trained person will limed the mag size them selfs one the larger capacity mags many times are unreliable and jam, and second there very bulky and hard to carry,
          all the assault band did was band a look, not actually a gun, as with the small modifications they keep selling the same rifles,
          and there is no different besides look of a semi auto loading hunting rifle and a "assault rifle". that is normally avaible to the civilian population,

          and the second amendment is not about hunting it is about gun ownership,

          you state why does John Q. citizen need to have a AK or some thing, does he need a lever action 30 30 (basically the same round), what is in need, do you need a TV with a screen over 20", probably not, but I bet you have one that is over 20", the second amendment is not about need, it is about Freedom, the round the Ar15 shoots is only a 22 caliber,


          I have a neighbor that has a 50 cal, rifle he totally enjoys shooting that he goes to meets and shoots in completion's, he can hit a foot square target at a mile away, he is good,
          now you can discuss needs all day long, does any one need that, I do not know but he sure enjoys the challenge it is, and to become proficient in it, is his kick, and it only is a single shot,

          guns have been a part of the US from it beginnings,

          the guns if any thing have got harder to get but the problems have got worst, I do not think the guns are the problem we had guns in school when I was in high school we worked on them in shop, made stocks and so on, no thought was given to, the pickup back windows nearly all had guns in them,
          and when kids walked to school it was not uncommon that they carried a gun to school for target practice at recess, and hunting to and from school, (we have an old teacher manual that talks about guns and recess shooting,

          IF guns were the problem then when the Cops showed up at that school then there should have been hundreds more dead, as they had full auto rifles most likely.

          GOD has been taken out of the schools

          The Ten commandments have been removed,

          Even the pledge of elegance has been made unimportant,

          Thanks to roe VS wade the value of human life has been reduced down to an inconvenience,

          more and more the value of life has been reduced to an economical value,

          The value of the family has been reduced to nearly nothing, (when I was in school the the kid who parents had been through a divorce was the oddity, now the kids who parents who have not been divorced, is the oddity,

          The whole value system is what can I get for me, it is I, me, me. me.


          going the step further, how many of these people are on psychotropic drugs given by doctors,

          I am not saying that depression is not real, but when you have a value system that is self centered and life has little or no worth, of course a person will be depressed, but what is the accepted treatment of it to drug some one up. and then when you can not sleep you take Ambien which really make a cocktail that mess up one mind, to the point they do not know where there at or what there doing or going,

          I have seen a number of people on Ambien and there depresson and psychotropic drugs there not a good mix, a deadly mix many times can result,
          Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
          attributed to Samuel Johnson
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          PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

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          • #20
            Re: Newtown incident - Why?

            The value of the family has been reduced to nearly nothing, (when I was in
            school the the kid who parents had been through a divorce was the oddity, now
            the kids who parents who have not been divorced, is the oddity,
            That right there is probably the biggest problem, todays kids are lucky to have a solid, lasting family environment to grow up in.

            They get more education on family life from the tube than reality, and we all know what those TV families are like. They are driven by ratings
            and whatever it takes to keep them up, nothing more, so any resemblance to reality is out the window.
            ---------------
            Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
            ---------------
            “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
            ---------
            "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
            ---------
            sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Newtown incident - Why?

              Bob, I walked around a shopping mall with my wife today and it was like watching a futuristic movie. Outside of one store a young clerk was flying a remote control four prop drone with a camera, another store had a HD projector that could fit in your shirt pocket. Children and adults seemed less involved in the simple joy of being together, than tranced by the overload of gadgets and bling.

              Consider the young adult growing up in the sixties, entertainment might be going to a movie, or sporting event. Food while out was a burger or slice of pizza, drugs were around like pot or heroin. Compare that reality to what is available today. The electronics are mind boggling, laptops, ipods/ipads/ all sorts of gaming, the food; endless in variety and availability. The mind numbing or body stimulating drugs too many to list. There is too much escapism, selfishness and just plain simple bad behavior among adults and children to expect a good result. We still have strong family units where good values are taught and parents lead by example, but the scale has tipped the wrong way.

              The result of our broken family units, overload of electronic distractions, food and drugs is a society where tradgic, violent occurrences happen more frequently. Adults lose control and go on these killing sprees and we are seeing it with younger people, not productively engaged or parented. People young and old who are menatlly disturbed and not given the attention, and treatment necessary to prevent them from hurting themselves or others. It's a mess that I don't see getting better by gun legislation.

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