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  • #46
    Re: The President's Priorities

    Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
    The go-to argument has always been they pay taxes using a fake SS# so do not benefits. It sure seems like the IRS should be able to figure out how many returns go unclaimed.

    Mark
    yeah. i remember a couple guys on one big job that used someone else's ssn as they were living off the grid (for one reason or another) before it was popular. this was long before there was a WWW or public internet.

    then there was the tax revolt craze in the 80s when people opted out of the SS system and claimed 99 dependants because they signed saying they owed no taxes the year before. they were running scared but taking 90 of their gross home in their check. most ended up getting caught by the IRS and having to pay it all back.
    ---------------
    Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
    ---------------
    “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
    ---------
    "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
    ---------
    sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: The President's Priorities

      i don't understand why it is so hard to come up with an easy way to ID these people.WIC
      We have the TWIC card for anyone working near the ports in places like refineeries, chemical plants,
      etc. must have to get hired there. it might make a good model for migrant workers ID cards. then all
      employers would have to verify the worker has this card and check it online to see if its still valid. over
      the internet it would only take a few seconds. many places send fingerprints vis the 'net to the FBI for
      background checks and get results the next day or sooner. inked fingerprint cards are a thing of the past
      mostly and you don't even have to roll your fingers, just place and hold still for a few seconds and they
      got you in the system.

      then, one crime committed and prints come back to a temp worker, he loses his card FOREVER. go home, no work for you,
      there are 2000 people behind you in line waiting to take your place for that job that supposedly no American wants.
      ---------------
      Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
      ---------------
      “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
      ---------
      "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
      ---------
      sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: The President's Priorities

        Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
        yeah. i remember a couple guys on one big job that used someone else's ssn as they were living off the grid (for one reason or another) before it was popular. this was long before there was a WWW or public internet.

        then there was the tax revolt craze in the 80s when people opted out of the SS system and claimed 99 dependants because they signed saying they owed no taxes the year before. they were running scared but taking 90 of their gross home in their check. most ended up getting caught by the IRS and having to pay it all back.
        Ah Bob, you're talking about the "Life Science Church"! Allow me to elaborate in the hopes of saving even one hardworking person from getting scammed. I think most of us have a certain degree of greed and I'm no different. Back in the early 80's a "friend" invited me to a meeting. There in a big convention hall of a reputable hotel I watched and listened as speakers discussed how members of religious organizations who take a vow of poverty don't have to pay any taxes, not even property taxes, or social security! A third of my pay check was going to taxes at the time. I worked in the streets of the South Bronx and was laughed at by the locals who did not work and who I supported with the help of a very generous government. The speakers were made up of ranking police officers, a public school principal and various "church" officials.
        Around the same time I was attending life science church meeting, other coworkers were drawn into stock deals having to do with oil exploration in australia, and sure fire "pyramid" scams. OH, it was a great time to roll the dice and lose money. Trust me , while I was a young naive guy there was no shortage of older and wiser folks getting taken by the great speakers (taught me a lot about great speakers).
        Bottom line is I made my "donation" and joined. Luckily for me when the IRS declared the life science church" a tax protest group, not entitled to real church statis, I was able to pay back all taxes due. I worked with guys and knew of others who had not filed for a couple of years and it was not a simple matter of just paying back what was owed to uncle sam. Entire bank accounts were seized by the gov't , wages were "levied" at upwards of 80% leaving some folks with a $100 pay check! Furthermore, at the time you were able to opt out of social security, and a few folks did (not me). They could not get back in! There were also those who declared their homes their church and got off the property rolls, what a mess!
        I can honestly say it was the best experience and money I ever lost. I have not been taken since and I've saved a lot of folks a similar fate.
        I tell my story knowing full well that some wil be quick to criticize me, and I'm willing to take it if it helps someone here. You see these scams have a way of running in cycles. They lay low for a few years then pop up again to take a whole new crop of fools. I actually thought I could not only save money but donate more to the charities I chose. I expect with the economy the way it is there will be more and more crooks and scams. Well, start firing, I'm open for a beating.
        Last edited by Frankiarmz; 02-04-2013, 06:50 PM.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: The President's Priorities

          Frankie, You just brought back memories. A fellow I worked with tried very hard to get me an other coworkers to join. He had joined and had donated his house and money to the "church" and eventually quit his job to go "preach" The last I heard, he was destitute and staying with relatives. (wife and family left him) The " church" had powerful speakers and were very convincing, but I wasn't buying. No beating from me.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: The President's Priorities

            Originally posted by Pipestone Kid View Post
            Frankie, You just brought back memories. A fellow I worked with tried very hard to get me an other coworkers to join. He had joined and had donated his house and money to the "church" and eventually quit his job to go "preach" The last I heard, he was destitute and staying with relatives. (wife and family left him) The " church" had powerful speakers and were very convincing, but I wasn't buying. No beating from me.
            Thanks Kid. I lost a good friend who just would not give up pushing the kool aid even when he knew it was over. The speakers were well trained and that gave them the edge over most unprepared folks. Glad you were not taken. Frank

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: The President's Priorities

              no beating here either, i didn't get taken in and wasn't even tempted. i thought those guys were nuts for going that way. as you say they paid for their mistakes for years. there were a number who lost their homes. i drove one the guys to work for two years before he had the money to buy a clunker. he was one of those who was left with only $100 a week out of his check, and we were working 6-10s building a hotel/casino so he was bringing in big dollars for the time, and would be considered a very good wage even today.
              ---------------
              Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
              ---------------
              “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
              ---------
              "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
              ---------
              sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: The President's Priorities

                Thanks Bob. Most of the guys I knew recovered but at least two were ruined for life. The IRS could have stepped in much sooner, but chose to lay back and let folks dig themselves a real deep grave. NYCity sanitation workers were in longer than us phone guys and they were devistated. I never filed under that heading so it was just a matter of paying back several months of back taxes. I was also getting married and did not want anything hanging over my head as some guys decided to fight it out. Bad idea. Several years later I had a neighbor approach me with a can't lose pyramid opportunity, I declined and thought back to the life science church days. The atmosphere in those meeting rooms was electric and the speakers knew how to stir up a crowd. I appreciate the slack I've been given here, but I remember back then how stubborn I was. It was perfectly legal, completely legal, until it wasn't . Live and learn. I had to learn the hard way.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: The President's Priorities

                  Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                  Ah Bob, you're talking about the "Life Science Church"! Allow me to elaborate in the hopes of saving even one hardworking person from getting scammed. I think most of us have a certain degree of greed and I'm no different. Back in the early 80's a "friend" invited me to a meeting. There in a big convention hall of a reputable hotel I watched and listened as speakers discussed how members of religious organizations who take a vow of poverty don't have to pay any taxes, not even property taxes, or social security! A third of my pay check was going to taxes at the time. I worked in the streets of the South Bronx and was laughed at by the locals who did not work and who I supported with the help of a very generous government. The speakers were made up of ranking police officers, a public school principal and various "church" officials.
                  Around the same time I was attending life science church meeting, other coworkers were drawn into stock deals having to do with oil exploration in australia, and sure fire "pyramid" scams. OH, it was a great time to roll the dice and lose money. Trust me , while I was a young naive guy there was no shortage of older and wiser folks getting taken by the great speakers (taught me a lot about great speakers).
                  Bottom line is I made my "donation" and joined. Luckily for me when the IRS declared the life science church" a tax protest group, not entitled to real church statis, I was able to pay back all taxes due. I worked with guys and knew of others who had not filed for a couple of years and it was not a simple matter of just paying back what was owed to uncle sam. Entire bank accounts were seized by the gov't , wages were "levied" at upwards of 80% leaving some folks with a $100 pay check! Furthermore, at the time you were able to opt out of social security, and a few folks did (not me). They could not get back in! There were also those who declared their homes their church and got off the property rolls, what a mess!
                  I can honestly say it was the best experience and money I ever lost. I have not been taken since and I've saved a lot of folks a similar fate.
                  I tell my story knowing full well that some wil be quick to criticize me, and I'm willing to take it if it helps someone here. You see these scams have a way of running in cycles. They lay low for a few years then pop up again to take a whole new crop of fools. I actually thought I could not only save money but donate more to the charities I chose. I expect with the economy the way it is there will be more and more crooks and scams. Well, start firing, I'm open for a beating.
                  I find it hilarous that these "churchgoers" could have saved themselves from the beginning had they actually opened up a bible! There is a story in there about one public sermon Jesus was giving. The local pharosies were trying to discredit Jesus and attempted to make Jesus seem like an enemy of Rome. So they sent in an agent to the crowd to ask a question, "Should we pay taxes to Ceasar if we are in the Kingdom of God?" Well, in a slick little move, asked a specator for a Dinari. When given one, he held it up for the crowd to see, then asked, "Who is on this Dinari?", a few replied, "Cesaer." So, Jesus stated, "Render to Ceasar the things of Ceasar, render to God the things of God!".

                  I may be a Roman Catholic, but I'm no biblethumper. Even I don't need some book to tell me that it is a moral and ethical duty to pay taxes to the very government we live among and benefit from the numerous services. Sure, we can argue how much taxes we pay and how they are spent, but never argue the fact the taxes must be rendered. I'm certain those speakers conveniently omitted THAT part from their seminars.
                  Last edited by tailgunner; 02-05-2013, 08:35 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: The President's Priorities

                    Tailgunner, the speakers talked a lot about the boston tea party and about how our tax money was not properly spent by the government. There is no "excusing" not paying taxes which support our government, but that does not mean we can't think of plenty of reasons not to pay. I still get mad when I think of how many people don't pay into the system but only take. Don't fool yourself into thinking there aren't millions of folks who set up their own independent churches and avoid paying taxes. I believe it's tax circular E that talks about members of religious groups who take a vow of poverty. The government cannot define what constitutes a religious belief, or church. There are no set number of services or structure to be met. Remember how caesar ended up

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: The President's Priorities

                      My Dad used to say, "some people spend more energy in their efforts to get out of work, than they would spend doing the work".

                      So too is the effort of so many to get out of paying for thier taxes.

                      Maybe it's me, but I know it's NOT just me.... but I consider paying my fair share of taxes to be a priviledge. That's not saying that I should pay one more cent than I owe, but I have never gone to any steps or made choices that might alleviate me of that responsibility. I live here, enjoy the benefits and freedoms of living here and thus I have a responsibility (and the honor) of paying taxes and being supportive of our communities.

                      With that in mind, I haven't and won't get sucked into any kind of scheme where "avoidance" is the objective. Personally, I think even these commercials for getting your back taxes negotiated down is sort of a sham, and a shame. But I do recognize that it doesn't take much neglect on our part, to the IRS, to have it result in some extreme penalties.

                      Also, I've never been attracted by the many "get-rich" scams that I've seen over my many years. I remember well, one pyramid scheme back in the late 60's or early 70's, where an alledged "select few" were invited for weekend excursions of luxury and lavishments. Two of my co-workers got sucked into them (one went and then invited the other) and all I heard for weeks was how fantastic it was and that we were all going to be so rich and I really needed to take my wife to one of those "weekends".

                      It only took a minute or two of quick pencil-work to show the inevitable collapse of this "pyramid scheme" to convince my friend of the stupidity of it. The other however, "HAD FAITH"... and plunged ahead. She and her husband lost a considerable amount of their savings, and then their house... and then their marriage.

                      It's a shame what greed will do to people!

                      I learned very early that life is supposed to be hard, and we all have to work if we want something. There's no such thing as FREE and nobody is ever going to just give you something or wantingly share thier wealth with you, just because you seem like a nice person. That's life, recognize it for what it is, and when you reach out to take an "offering", make sure your other hand is securing your own wallet.

                      CWS
                      Last edited by CWSmith; 02-06-2013, 12:33 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: The President's Priorities

                        CWS, you're a good American and fine person but you are out of touch with reality. While you and I are paying our fair share of taxes (not that I didn't try to avoid them years ago) you must admit there are milions upon millions of Americans not paying a dime and receiving all sorts of government benefits we pay for! Free rent, free food, and the latest is free smart phones courtesy of President Obama. One of his biggest campaign contributors and frequent white house guest got the contract to provdie the smart phones. Kid if you're reading this I know it's a coincidence but still. So CWS, you see there is such a thing as free, but guys like me don't get to ride that gravy train. We work, and work and pay and pay and someone else sits back and laughs. They have child after child that we support, live in a house we pay for as well as eat food we pay for and probably drive a car too. Now they have smart phones, and no bill to pay. Forgot the healthcare. Yeah it's a shame what greed will do, and laziness and ignorance, and all those other character flaws.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: The President's Priorities

                          The cell phone program was started under George Bush's administration.
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: The President's Priorities

                            Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                            CWS, you're a good American and fine person but you are out of touch with reality. While you and I are paying our fair share of taxes (not that I didn't try to avoid them years ago) you must admit there are milions upon millions of Americans not paying a dime and receiving all sorts of government benefits we pay for! Free rent, free food, and the latest is free smart phones courtesy of President Obama. One of his biggest campaign contributors and frequent white house guest got the contract to provdie the smart phones. Kid if you're reading this I know it's a coincidence but still. So CWS, you see there is such a thing as free, but guys like me don't get to ride that gravy train. We work, and work and pay and pay and someone else sits back and laughs. They have child after child that we support, live in a house we pay for as well as eat food we pay for and probably drive a car too. Now they have smart phones, and no bill to pay. Forgot the healthcare. Yeah it's a shame what greed will do, and laziness and ignorance, and all those other character flaws.
                            Yes Frankie, I am reading it. Also read NHM post and it got me to checking. <http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/cellphone.asp> Seems like the original program started under Reagan, expanded under Clinton and went cellular under Bush. (Seems kind of difficult to figure out how Obama's "contributor" got the contract) If you read the article it will tell you how some sleazy operators figured out if they added Obama to their advertising it would help promote their scheme.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: The President's Priorities

                              There is a big difference in cost between a regular cell phone and a smart phone. I don't see where a smart phone would be a necessity to folks who are out of work ?
                              http://smartprepaidcellphones.com/fr...t-smartphones/
                              Last edited by Frankiarmz; 02-06-2013, 02:40 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: The President's Priorities

                                Franki,

                                Don't tell me I'm "out of touch with reality", what I said was in referance to ME and those with the same values. I absolutely know that there are those leaches who get through their days sucking off the kindness and the oversights of community and government programs. I can only hope that eventually these things well catch up to them. As I've said before (and complained about)... I have a neighbor who is one of those leaches, and almost everybody knows it. They pay no rent, no mortgage, no taxes, and every cop in town knows their name, as do most attornies, and the court system. I've been told that it is only a matter of time... which so far seems to be "forever".... but I do expect that the law will settle with them eventually.

                                But until that time, I don't envy them in any way. As a citizen I can only do so much. As a man, I can only live with within the laws of our society and the rules that I have set for myself. I can have "expectations" of others, though. It's a lot like when I was working, some people are definitely overpaid and underworked. While that may go on around you, one must do their job and live up to thier responsibilities. Duty and honor and responsibility of one's self is clear, having any control or exercise of others is not.... and that understanding is "reality".

                                CWS

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